Travelling with a disabled persons.

[Failed Unit]

It is getting increasingly frustrating to travel with a disabled person at the moment. Some of the stations I am going to highlight below are fairly new so the problem is purely financial as at design stage it was chosen to only have a single. Lift. Journey Welwyn Garden City - London Bridge.

1. Finsbury Park. No lift from platform 1 / 2. Solution detour to Kings Cross not an issue in this case was only changing trains here.

2. St Pancras. No access at all for disabled people. Frequent issue although on my last complaint to GTR they say I am just unlucky as the only times the list has failed in last 6 months were the time Mrs Unit was with me. Other passengers needed to change at Finsbury Park taking train from Kings Cross.

3 Blackfriars. No access on Southbank to platform 2. Solution use northbank lifts.

4. No access to Thameslink platforms. Solution use Blackfriars. Again I could be unlucky but this is a common failure. last time we needed to use the tube which want fun either.

London bridge and St Pancras are awful. Does network rail have availability statistics and is there anything that can help encourage disabled passengers travel. Things are better. However train designers don’t work with real wheelchairs users, otherwise they wouldn’t have put the pole right in the turning area of the wheelchair on the class 700.

 

[josh-j]

As my mum is disabled this is a personal bugbear of mine (she is entirely reliant on a wheelchair). Provision is unacceptable across the network.

Stations with only stairs to access platforms, lack of level boarding. The expectation that wheelchair users should make extensive arrangements with a TOC before travelling and even then can't actually rely on the service being provided - and that somehow this is all an acceptable accomodation for disabled people.

I'm surprised (not being anywhere near London myself) that a major station such as St Pancras should have such issues but I don't doubt it.

 

[moogal]

I was really surprised at how bad the lift situation is at St Pancras low level when I had cause to travel to Gatwick with heavy luggage. Only a single lift between the ticket hall, the bridge level, and one of the platforms. Coming from the other platform, you're then trying to get into an up lift that's already filled from the platform below.

Given how busy the station is, that you have the Eurostar upstairs, long distance trains to the Midlands, and then Thameslink serving two busy airports, it's wholly inadequate.

I was chatting to one of the station staff assisting a disabled passenger as we queued, who was saying how frustrating it made their job, as it was completely inadequate, especially given how new that part of the station is.

 

[Rover]

We've come a long way as to how the disabled are treated on the railway but sadly a quarter of the way through the 21st century we've still got a long way to go.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

We've come a long way as to how the disabled are treated on the railway but sadly a quarter of the way through the 21st century we've still got a long way to go.

No, we haven't come a long way. As a wheelchair user I fail to understand why I can easily access TfW services while GWR are 19th century at best.

 

[Matthew5689]

No, we haven't come a long way. As a wheelchair user I fail to understand why I can easily access TfW services while GWR are 19th century at best.

I think the point they were making was that as recently as 20-30 years ago we had various trains with no accessible spaces at all with disabled passengers only option to be boarded in the guards van.

I agree that more needs to be done and lifts should be installed wherever possible etc but level-boarding is an impossible dream on a network with such variety of stations/units. The situation is categorically better than it used to be, but remains inadequate in many places.

 

[GoneSouth]

I think the point they were making was that as recently as 20-30 years ago we had various trains with no accessible spaces at all

Some would argue nothing has changed here. Technically there should be wheelchair spaces but they are more often than not full of bikes, buggies and luggage the size of a builders’ skips, or at least that’s how it is on cross country

 

[Matthew5689]

Some would argue nothing has changed here. Technically there should be wheelchair spaces but they are more often than not full of bikes, buggies and luggage the size of a builders’ skips, or at least that’s how it is on cross country

That's a fair point, but I feel like that reflects more so on the capacity issue and unit design many routes have to deal with.

Crosscountry trains wouldn't be so overcrowded if they were longer and more frequent/cancelled less often. TOCs in general wouldn't have accessibility spaces filled with luggage if there were adequate luggage racks etc.

I do hear what you're saying though and appreciate smaller things could certainly done to make the situation better in the short term

 

[Horizon22]

No, we haven't come a long way. As a wheelchair user I fail to understand why I can easily access TfW services while GWR are 19th century at best.

Funding. Some stations are simply old and have never had lift provision prioritised or are on a long list to attract a pot of funding that cannot meet demand. Adding on this is varying levels of complexity and cost. It is impossible to cater for every possible journey.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2026 ==

2. St Pancras. No access at all for disabled people. Frequent issue although on my last complaint to GTR they say I am just unlucky as the only times the list has failed in last 6 months were the time Mrs Unit was with me. Other passengers needed to change at Finsbury Park taking train from Kings Cross.

I'm confused by this one. It does have a lift, but are you saying it was out of service when you were there? This is unfortunate, but if a part malfunctions or a lift is subject to vandalism (it happens), obviously best endeavours are taken to repair a lift - especially if it leads to no step-free access - but it won't be instant which ultimately means there is chance someone is going to be inconvenienced, sometimes considerably. I am not sure what the alternative is here other than rerouting.

 

[Failed Unit]

With respect to St Pancras it is frequently out of service. Looking at the station information it is still today.

Yes things take time to fix, but if the lift between the a platform and the station is gone both directions are impacted. In my opinion for a station with such a large volume 2 lifts should be built from new. The reason it wasn’t was purely down to cost savings.

If it was 1 in 10 journeys it failed this would be just life. However it feels much more frequent. Luckily from Welwyn Garden City most trains go into Kings Cross. People from St Albans are not as lucky and probably need to double back into Farringdon.

I suspect a 2nd lift isn’t possible now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2026 ==

Some would argue nothing has changed here. Technically there should be wheelchair spaces but they are more often than not full of bikes, buggies and luggage the size of a builders’ skips, or at least that’s how it is on cross country

Buggies are probably the worse. On thameslink the luggage is normally there because people don’t want to move it. I ask people to move both. Some are really resentful of the fact I do. On one journey where we were only going 2 stops we stayed in the doorway and other passengers turned on the “you are not disturbing my sleeping baby” family.

 

[Spartacus]

Funding. Some stations are simply old and have never had lift provision prioritised or are on a long list to attract a pot of funding that cannot meet demand. Adding on this is varying levels of complexity and cost. It is impossible to cater for every possible journey.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2026 ==



I'm confused by this one. It does have a lift, but are you saying it was out of service when you were there? This is unfortunate, but if a part malfunctions or a lift is subject to vandalism (it happens), obviously best endeavours are taken to repair a lift - especially if it leads to no step-free access - but it won't be instant which ultimately means there is chance someone is going to be inconvenienced, sometimes considerably. I am not sure what the alternative is here other than rerouting.

Yeah, lifts at St Pancras being out of order seems to be an ongoing thing, but it's not the only place, and faulty lifts & escalators are a problem across the country, not only on the railway. I sometimes wonder if I should retrain as a lift and escalator engineer....

On the railways though I do feel that Britain is miles ahead of many other countries in Europe where it often seems like there's no attempt at all to make provision and make complaints here about a ramp being needed to board pale in comparison to the barriers elsewhere, 3ft or more of near vertical steps that you'd need a hoist to get a wheelchair user on board, then where boarding is pretty level there's often no attempt to make the platforms so even when it wouldn't be difficult.

 

[TrainTraveler]

As I recall at Finsbury Park, the lifts were a fairly recent addition (last couple of decades).

The whole "circulation" at Finsbury Park is dreadful and due to the evolution of the station (many different levels) the lifts are complex.

Ideally Finsbury Park would have a "London Bridge" style circulation improvement but it would be extremely expensive.

 

[Rover]

No, we haven't come a long way. As a wheelchair user I fail to understand why I can easily access TfW services while GWR are 19th century at best.

My wife uses a mobility aid she has done for the last 37 years (she hates people calling her "that lady in the wheelchair") so I'm well aware of the current difficulties she has to contend with but back in the day she would have been taken down the platform over a boarded crossing and put in a draughty brake van with the parcels and mail and as I said we've still got a long way to go.

 

[SteveHFC]

Regarding the Thameslink lifts at St Pancras - they are currently being refurbished. Quote below from Thameslink website (found in the station updates dropdown on the page). https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/service-updates/service-updates

"St Pancras International: Station Facilities
The lifts will be out of order between the concourse and Platforms A/B from now until further notice at St Pancras International station.
Additional Information:
There will be no lift / step-free access to or from the below-surface Thameslink platforms (platform A and platform B) at St Pancras International station from Monday 15 June until mid-September. This is because the lifts are being refurbished to improve their long-term reliability, which will mean fewer short-notice unplanned closures.
The escalators and stairs serving platforms A and B are unaffected and will still be available.
If you need lift access to or from the Thameslink platforms and cannot use escalators or stairs, you will still be able to access St Pancras International station, but you will need to use an alternative nearby station with step-free access as part of your journey:
The main alternative route is to travel via Farringdon using London Underground Circle, Hammersmith & City or Metropolitan lines to connect to or from Kings Cross St Pancras. Please speak to station staff for further assistance."

 

[The exile]

No, we haven't come a long way. As a wheelchair user I fail to understand why I can easily access TfW services while GWR are 19th century at best.

One reason is presumably because TfW are just coming to the end of a massive stock replacement programme whereas on GW’s regional services we’re still waiting for it to start.

 

[jon0844]

St Pancras having just one lift for both platforms (from surface to mid-level) was crazy. Absolutely needed two lifts from day one, regardless of cost. It has been in service since 2007 so it's not unexpected to need a complete overhaul, but it will always remain a weak link - not least the time it takes to get to/from the platform as a result.

There are a lot of people taking advantage of the fully accessible trains, and lots of people with heavy luggage told to use the lifts, so that alone warrants more than one lift.

A big problem with older lifts is the policy of continuing to patch and repair even when the repeated repairs are costing more than a total replacement. The lifts at WGC are life expired to the point where new parts have to be made or imported from abroad (Italy seems common). Parts can also be salvaged from other lifts of the era, but it's clearly better to just replace the whole lift - except I'm certain Network Rail would struggle to replace the lifts, but can (and has to) maintain existing ones.

 

[plymothian]

We built an even newer station with only 2 lifts (Paddington crossrail), that are so woefully over subscribed, TfL have thrown the kitchen sink at dissuading people from using the escalators instead; you can't expect things to change.

 

[Failed Unit]

St Pancras having just one lift for both platforms (from surface to mid-level) was crazy. Absolutely needed two lifts from day one, regardless of cost. It has been in service since 2007 so it's not unexpected to need a complete overhaul, but it will always remain a weak link - not least the time it takes to get to/from the platform as a result.

There are a lot of people taking advantage of the fully accessible trains, and lots of people with heavy luggage told to use the lifts, so that alone warrants more than one lift.

A big problem with older lifts is the policy of continuing to patch and repair even when the repeated repairs are costing more than a total replacement. The lifts at WGC are life expired to the point where new parts have to be made or imported from abroad (Italy seems common). Parts can also be salvaged from other lifts of the era, but it's clearly better to just replace the whole lift - except I'm certain Network Rail would struggle to replace the lifts, but can (and has to) maintain existing ones.

Interesting point about Welwyn Garden City although failures there don’t seem as common as St Pancras.

With the station design the alternatives are not as bad. The lift on Platform 2 failing may result in using a Moorgate train or circulating via Hatfield. Platform ¾ they normally send a passenger to Stevenage (or taxi from Hatfield)

 

[Kumquat]

St Pancras having just one lift for both platforms (from surface to mid-level) was crazy. Absolutely needed two lifts from day one, regardless of cost. It has been in service since 2007 so it's not unexpected to need a complete overhaul, but it will always remain a weak link - not least the time it takes to get to/from the platform as a result.

There are a lot of people taking advantage of the fully accessible trains, and lots of people with heavy luggage told to use the lifts, so that alone warrants more than one lift.

A big problem with older lifts is the policy of continuing to patch and repair even when the repeated repairs are costing more than a total replacement. The lifts at WGC are life expired to the point where new parts have to be made or imported from abroad (Italy seems common). Parts can also be salvaged from other lifts of the era, but it's clearly better to just replace the whole lift - except I'm certain Network Rail would struggle to replace the lifts, but can (and has to) maintain existing ones.

St Pancras has a huge number of passengers with lots of luggage, especially as Thameslink serves Gatwick and Luton. It's the only station I've seen pile-ups in the last decade, where someone (with two suitcases) stumbles at the top of the escalator, leading to people falling over and someone having to stop the escalator.

Last time it happened, there was a school trip and a teacher and I ended up contorted so as not to squash some of the 5-6 year old kids.

The pair of passengers responsible had two suitcases each and hadn't wanted to wait for the lift to go from the Thameslink middle storey to the main concourse. Do stations keep records of how often escalators have to be stopped for safety? I would guess StP Thameslink is one of the top scorers.

There are other stations with long queues for the lift, but usually the alternative is stairs, where there will always be a Londoner who takes one suitcase or one end of your buggy and carries it for you, often without any speech or eye contact, so less dangerous.

 

[Railguy1]

I imagine the situation at Kings Cross will only worsen when Virgin start international travel there.

 

[Haywain]

I imagine the situation at Kings Cross will only worsen when Virgin start international travel there.

Not likely to be happening all that soon, is it?

 

[TheWierdOne]

Not likely to be happening all that soon, is it?

2030 is the current forecast

 

[speedy1]

Hmmm well, that may sound very generous, but when we analyse the cost of getting around without a car, it’s astonishing how quickly that £80 might disappear.

I know travel isn't cheap but let's not ignore they are very likely also receiving £114/week for the Daily Living component

A round trip to the supermarket by taxi is going to cost £25-30 alone, you shouldn’t expect that to be a disabled persons only trip outside the house for the week,

Why would a supermarket visit be the only trip outside the house for the week? This is emotionally-charged rhetoric that I have no time for. Also many people get deliveries to save on taxi costs, at 1/4 of that cost. Yes, I know many people on PIP including family.

I think it's good it's paid as money, as people can make their own choices. What if PIP were reduced and free taxis to supermarkets provided instead? That would annoy a lot of people who get deliveries, for example.

and each time you use that taxi it’s burning the PIP.

Right so we're getting to the crux that people want to double dip. We have PIP, a very specific benefit designed for extra expenses of having a disability, yet many people don't view it that way, and still want more things for free.

If we then compare the cost of rail to private car, it’s a no brainer. If there’s more than one person travelling more than a couple of miles car wins. That option isn’t available to many

It is available to many who can exchange their PIP for Motability and only need to pay for fuel. There are 35,000 wheelchair adapted Motability vehicles.

so they have to shell out the outrageously expensive rail far (yes, looking at you XC).

At 50% off for wheelchair users. And 33% off for other disabilities.

I’m not saying travel should be free, I’m just saying that a disabled individual would more than likely have higher costs for travel as a direct result of their disability when comparing the same journeys and available options for a non disabled driver. So, it’s not free and PIP doesn’t always cover the extra costs incurred

But PIP does cover a lot of extra costs for many people. It's not like £850/mo covers nothing (top rate mobility + daily living)

Obviously you're not trying to say someone claiming benefits is travelling for free, that would be ignoring the reality that disabled people's benefits go on lots of other expenses. That's what PIP is for.

How is it "nearly free"?

If I get 100% delay repay, did I still pay for my journey? We can all play word games. No need to get fixated on the word "free". Will you at least concede the 50% off for wheelchair users is half free

And are you ignoring the existence of the specific subcomponent of PIP called "Mobility", or are you unaware of it? Note this specific component is £80/week on top of daily living at £114/week.

 

[AlterEgo]

I know travel isn't cheap but let's not ignore they are very likely also receiving £114/week for the Daily Living component

(They're not)

And are you ignoring the existence of the specific subcomponent of PIP called "Mobility", or are you unaware of it? Note this specific component is £80/week on top of daily living at £114/week.

Aware of it? I receive PIP, and used to administer DLA and ESA in a former life.

And no, it is not on top of £114 a week! Most people do not get £80 + £114 a week as this higher rate is for the most severely disabled or terminally ill claimants. A minority of people can claim this and a huge portion of those people are not going to be in a position to travel by train anyway. Most people claiming mobility get the lower rate, like I do. This is £30.30 a week.

Most people who receive PIP find it does not cover all the additional costs incurred by their disability, and in any case it is not designed to help with rail costs; the Disabled Railcard was introduced around the same time as its predecessor benefit. PIP accounts for the fact that in some walks of life there are in fact already discounts for disabled people.

Saying that disabled people "travel for nearly free" or want to "double dip" is at best ignorant.

 

[Nym]

It is available to many who can exchange their PIP for Motability and only need to pay for fuel. There are 35,000 wheelchair adapted Motability vehicles.

Fuel. And...

Down Payment
Damage Charges
Insurance Excesses
"Admin Fees" for things that used to be free.
Any mileage over 10,000 per year at a now extortionate rate.

The cheapest WAV (Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle) by the way is £3795 down payment.

For something you could realistically use for long distance, this is closer to £13k.

 

[officewalla]

No, we haven't come a long way. As a wheelchair user I fail to understand why I can easily access TfW services while GWR are 19th century at best.

Money...too much needed for a relatively small percentage of the population and not enough of it in the first place.

 

[Failed Unit]

At 50% off for wheelchair users. And 33% off for other disabilities.

However in some situations they need to take someone with them. My Wife simply would not have the confidence to travel alone with these various issues you have on route. For example when the list is broken at London bridge and you are told to get the tube, that is enough to confuse many able bodied traveller, but doing it alone in a wheelchair isn’t fun. (I was the one pushing it but I didn’t really know how to get to the platform at took a few dead ends along the way) - I digress. 50% off for her and 1/3 off for me is still more then someone who is able to travel alone. The extra funding is better than a kick in the teeth, but believe me it doesn’t make up for loss in income, when she was totally independent.

I do find on national rail, but there is still a lot to improve. I was once getting a train from Falkirk Grahamson - London. Apparently the failure to organise a ramp was because we didn’t check in. There was no-one in the ticket office. A Scotrail member of staff was stood down the platform, so either didn’t see a passenger with a wheelchair or chose to ignore them. We got her on the train (with a nice delay as the LNER guard who was expecting us got the ramp) - LNER refunded the ticket because of this failure. However no-one knew who was actually accountable for getting us on the train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2026 ==

Money...too much needed for a relatively small percentage of the population and not enough of it in the first place.

Sort of, however if you get a small station, such as Market Rasen on EMR. They haven’t spent much but it works. A Harrington hump, and ramps on all the trains. (It is still acceptable to cross the tracks on foot by a red / green light controlled crossing which all passengers use). Not sure if it meets with modern standards, however give me that over a lift any-day. Barnetby has a bridge with some very long ramps to avoid a lift. It probably cost more then Market Rasen.

 

[josh-j]

Money...too much needed for a relatively small percentage of the population and not enough of it in the first place.

Meanwhile an even smaller percentage of the population have literal trillions but that's clearly much less of a problem than disabled people being able to go outside.

 

[officewalla]

Meanwhile an even smaller percentage of the population have literal trillions but that's clearly much less of a problem than disabled people being able to go outside.

What has your wealth bias got to do with the original post and subsequent answers?

 

[josh-j]

What has your wealth bias got to do with the original post and subsequent answers?

You're saying there isn't money to provide for disabled people and that spending can't be justified on such a "relatively small percentage of the population". I realise now that you're not expressing that as your own view necessarily but simply how the funding decisions will work, which is fair enough.

Its just that the obvious response is that there is plenty of money, all controlled by the even smaller section of population that are billionaires. I don't intend to veer off into politics particularly but arguments about lack of funding do ultimately come down to the reason money cannot be found.

Anyway I didn't mean to make it personal. I do have a pround wealth bias though. Extreme wealth is very bad for everybody.