TfW withdrawals (Now just 150/158s to go)

[sd0733]

153333 and 153935

153367 and 909 have also gone to Landore on Friday.

The 153s which have been reinstated have been in and out of Landore over the past few months. I believe they just go back there for work/ some exams to help relieve some of the pressure on Canton.

 

[158822]

Hi all, as the scheduled date for the Cambrian switch over is approaching, does anyone know: has there been any further delays, if it is going to be an all in one swap which it surely will be, and if the plan is to do it over a weekend so they can get the 158s out and bring the 197s in? Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[tfw756rider]

Hi all, as the scheduled date for the Cambrian switch over is approaching, does anyone know: has there been any further delays, if it is going to be an all in one swap which it surely will be, and if the plan is to do it over a weekend so they can get the 158s out and bring the 197s in? Thanks in advance for any info.

As I understand it, the current plan is still to start 197 Cambrian entry-to-service in September 2026 (but not 'all in one go'), then end the last 158s in December.

The official date to press/public has changed from September to 'Autumn', but that's just in case there's any delay.

 

[50002Superb]

Hi all, as the scheduled date for the Cambrian switch over is approaching, does anyone know: has there been any further delays, if it is going to be an all in one swap which it surely will be, and if the plan is to do it over a weekend so they can get the 158s out and bring the 197s in? Thanks in advance for any info.

Has a date been confirmed?

 

[Cardiff123]

So TfW now seem to be at the stage where is a 150 fails on a 150 / 153 diagram, there's nothing to replace it, and services are cancelled.

A VoG diagram 150 failed this morning, resulting in the VoG getting a 2 hourly service nearly all day and some Barry Island services cancelled as well.

Cheltenham services are cancelled this afternoon for the rest of the day.

Ebbw Vale - Newport is regularly cancelled.

How much longer can TfW keep up the "more trains than usual needing repairs" explanation? It might be true but for the public it'll wear thin very quickly.

 

[Jez]

So TfW now seem to be at the stage where is a 150 fails on a 150 / 153 diagram, there's nothing to replace it, and services are cancelled.

A VoG diagram 150 failed this morning, resulting in the VoG getting a 2 hourly service nearly all day and some Barry Island services cancelled as well.

Cheltenham services are cancelled this afternoon for the rest of the day.

Ebbw Vale - Newport is regularly cancelled.

How much longer can TfW keep up the "more trains than usual needing repairs" explanation? It might be true but for the public it'll wear thin very quickly.

I checked RTT and only 46 x 197s in service today. 20 of them are 3 cars and only 26 (around half out of a fleet of 51!) of the 2 cars. 197s are also covering 2 of the MK4's today so effectively they are 5 short if its meant to be 49 diagrams.

This has resulted in 3 of the 4 Pembroke Dock Diagrams being 150s which in turn has impacted the Vale of Glamorgan when a 150 fails that.

Its really not good.

 

[Wyrleybart]

So TfW now seem to be at the stage where is a 150 fails on a 150 / 153 diagram, there's nothing to replace it, and services are cancelled.

A VoG diagram 150 failed this morning, resulting in the VoG getting a 2 hourly service nearly all day and some Barry Island services cancelled as well.

Cheltenham services are cancelled this afternoon for the rest of the day.

Ebbw Vale - Newport is regularly cancelled.

How much longer can TfW keep up the "more trains than usual needing repairs" explanation? It might be true but for the public it'll wear thin very quickly.

Difficult to judge but I assume the 398s will release a mix of Stadlers and maybe a few 150s. Presume the Stadlers cascade onto what they were bought for and the 150s go in the bin. The whole thing seems so haphazard in South Wales at the moment which makes TfW up north appear a paragon of virtue - particularly with three 230s at work during the hottest temps of the year.

 

[Jez]

I noticed despite all the Sprinter coverage on Swanline/Pembroke Dock/Maesteg/Cheltenham today one of the Ebbw Vale to Newports was a 197.

Not sure if there is an issue with the 153s today as apart from the Heart of Wales ive not seen any allocated.

 

[Cardiff123]

Difficult to judge but I assume the 398s will release a mix of Stadlers and maybe a few 150s. Presume the Stadlers cascade onto what they were bought for and the 150s go in the bin. The whole thing seems so haphazard in South Wales at the moment which makes TfW up north appear a paragon of virtue - particularly with three 230s at work during the hottest temps of the year.

There's no indication that mainline training on the 231s / 756s has even started, hence why 150s are still the only traction that can work on the VoG line (Barry - Bridgend).

 

[50002Superb]

I checked RTT and only 46 x 197s in service today. 20 of them are 3 cars and only 26 (around half out of a fleet of 51!) of the 2 cars. 197s are also covering 2 of the MK4's today so effectively they are 5 short if its meant to be 49 diagrams.

This has resulted in 3 of the 4 Pembroke Dock Diagrams being 150s which in turn has impacted the Vale of Glamorgan when a 150 fails that.

Its really not good.

But there are only 30/31 non Cambrian /0 units so 26 isn’t really half the fleet, its actually 83% available of what should be available until the Cambrian units are free to work those diagrams?

 

[Jez]

But there are only 30/31 non Cambrian /0 units so 26 isn’t really half the fleet, its actually 83% available of what should be available until the Cambrian units are free to work those diagrams?

Very true. But today I counted 10 Cambrian units in Passenger service so if we discount those 10 from the total of 26 2 cars in service that leaves 16 non Cambrian units out of the 31.

Of course the true number will only be clear once the Cambrian service switches to 197s. Then we will truly see how Chester can cope.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2026 ==

The real issue here is the MK4 and 197s both being short and not being able to cover 5 diagrams between them. These are either short formed or replaced by Sprinters. There are only so many Sprinters and if one fails it results in services such as Ebbw Vale-Newport or VOG being cancelled. Thats why im surprised Ebbw-Newport wasnt cancelled as its less important than the VOG given there is an alternative service to Cardiff from Ebbw Vale.

 

[Meole]

As I understand it, the current plan is still to start 197 Cambrian entry-to-service in September 2026 (but not 'all in one go'), then end the last 158s in December.

The official date to press/public has changed from September to 'Autumn', but that's just in case there's any delay.

Best wait until after the busy period as the 197 have lower capacity.

 

[50002Superb]

Very true. But today I counted 10 Cambrian units in Passenger service so if we discount those 10 from the total of 26 2 cars in service that leaves 16 non Cambrian units out of the 31.

Of course the true number will only be clear once the Cambrian service switches to 197s. Then we will truly see how Chester can cope.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2026 ==

The real issue here is the MK4 and 197s both being short and not being able to cover 5 diagrams between them. These are either short formed or replaced by Sprinters. There are only so many Sprinters and if one fails it results in services such as Ebbw Vale-Newport or VOG being cancelled. Thats why im surprised Ebbw-Newport wasnt cancelled as its less important than the VOG given there is an alternative service to Cardiff from Ebbw Vale.

Why would you discount the 10 Cambrian units?

As it stands the wider TFW network can choose from 51 units to do the work of what should be 30/31.

Surely the fact that some are ultimately designated to end up on the Cambrian has no bearing on the current availability figures unless you are trying to skew the data.

 

[Caaardiff]

Why would you discount the 10 Cambrian units?

As it stands the wider TFW network can choose from 51 units to do the work of what should be 30/31.

Surely the fact that some are ultimately designated to end up on the Cambrian has no bearing on the current availability figures unless you are trying to skew the data.

The cambrian 197s are covering for a lack of non cambrian units that are out of service. So when the cambrian 197s move to where they should be there will be less flexibility and will really show the poor availability of the 197 fleet.
Similarly once the 150s are gone, along with the stadlers being confined to their routes only, the flexibility of the 15x to cover 197s will really start to show.

 

[DelW]

As I understand it, the current plan is still to start 197 Cambrian entry-to-service in September 2026 (but not 'all in one go'), then end the last 158s in December.

The official date to press/public has changed from September to 'Autumn', but that's just in case there's any delay.

Has a date been confirmed?

Since no-one has picked up on these, I'll put a link to a post I made on the cl197 thread, itself referencing a TfW document quoted in the cl398 thread. (It's a bit difficult to keep up with the various inter-related TfW stock discussions).

CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

Allocation for 08/07/2026:- 197039 on 5D97. Clarification:- 5D97 0910 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Chester D.M.U.D.

www.railforums.co.uk

(Please ignore that summary, link should go to the correct post)

 

[Jez]

Why would you discount the 10 Cambrian units?

As it stands the wider TFW network can choose from 51 units to do the work of what should be 30/31.

Surely the fact that some are ultimately designated to end up on the Cambrian has no bearing on the current availability figures unless you are trying to skew the data.

How am i trying to skew the data? You said there are only 31 non Cambrian units so 26 out of 31 - but of those 26 that were in service, 10 of them are Cambrian units. So its not really 26 out of 31 either is it. Either you include the Cambrian units in the grand total or you dont.

Of the 31 non Cambrian units only 16 of them were booked for service yesterday. How in any way am I tying to skew the data?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jul 2026 ==

The cambrian 197s are covering for a lack of non cambrian units that are out of service. So when the cambrian 197s move to where they should be there will be less flexibility and will really show the poor availability of the 197 fleet.

Thats exactly what I was trying to say. At the moment TFW have 49 diagrams and a fleet 77 to choose from. But they still cannot manage to cover those 49 diagrams for whatever reason. When they have 60+ diagrams out of the same fleet of 77 when the Cambrian services switch to 197s, it will be even more difficult unless something changes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jul 2026 ==

As it stands the wider TFW network can choose from 51 units to do the work of what should be 30/31.

Exactly. So with a fleet of 51 2 cars why cant they manage to cover their booked diagrams. There should be plenty of 197s at the moment but even with the Cambrian units helping there is still a massive shortage.

 

[50002Superb]

The data is being skewed by stating how many of the /0s are available to work.

There isn’t sufficient capacity across all of the depots / servicing to get all 51 into service each day until the cascade to MN happens.

I’m not defending TfW by the way.

 

[wythallpaul]

Sunday 02/08/2026 According to RTT.

1W61 1341 Milford Haven(MFH) to Manchester Piccadilly(MAN) was 153333+153914 to Cardiff Central(CDF) where 150279 was Added Making a 4 - Car to Manchester Piccadilly(MAN). Returns as a 4 - Car on 1V78 20.30 Manchester Piccadilly(MAN) to Cardiff Central(CDF).

 

[Welshguy1048]

Filmed at Prestatyn, North Wales

05/08/26 - TfW Class 158 - 158827 & 158829 - Llandudno Junction to Birmingham International

 

[GhostManDN91]

I'm off to Llandudno for a week in June 2027. I'm guessing it will just be Class 197s by that point in North Wales and no more Class 158s?

 

[DelW]

I'm off to Llandudno for a week in June 2027. I'm guessing it will just be Class 197s by that point in North Wales and no more Class 158s?

This chart (originally posted in the cl398 thread) shows the planned removal of 158s from North Wales services being completed in February 2027. And of course, we know that these things always go to plan ...

 

[DS25]

This chart (originally posted in the cl398 thread) shows the planned removal of 158s from North Wales services being completed in February 2027. And of course, we know that these things always go to plan ...

Selfishly I hope it doesn't go to plan!

 

[gazthomas]

I'm off to Llandudno for a week in June 2027. I'm guessing it will just be Class 197s by that point in North Wales and no more Class 158s?

158s definitely do regularly appear on the coast. particularly on Birmingham trains. Llandudno itself "only" sees 197s

 

[wythallpaul]

Below is the Current Plan for the Cambrian Cl197 Introduction/Cl158 Replacement.
From Monday the 14th September (RTT Confirms all Cambrian Services to/from Shrewsbury Only):-

• September 2026 - 8 Cl197s in service, 10 Cl158s in service but keep all 22 Cl158s for contingency.
• October 2026 - 12 Cl197s in service, 6 Cl158s in service, start handing back Cl158s.
• February 2027 - 18 Cl197s in service, Cl158s phased out.

Assuming that this works in Practice, it is Most Unlikely that there will be any Cl158's along the North Wales Coast next Summer.

 

[150249]

Do we know what the plan with this is?

Realtime Trains shows that 150283, which I believe was in storage at Landore, is returning to Cardiff Canton.

Is it returning from the dead?

 

[tfw756rider]

Below is the Current Plan for the Cambrian Cl197 Introduction/Cl158 Replacement.
From Monday the 14th September (RTT Confirms all Cambrian Services to/from Shrewsbury Only):-

• September 2026 - 8 Cl197s in service, 10 Cl158s in service but keep all 22 Cl158s for contingency.
• October 2026 - 12 Cl197s in service, 6 Cl158s in service, start handing back Cl158s.
• February 2027 - 18 Cl197s in service, Cl158s phased out.

Assuming that this works in Practice, it is Most Unlikely that there will be any Cl158's along the North Wales Coast next Summer.

Start of 197 Cambrian entry-to-service now postponed to October 2026 (between about the 12/10/26 and the 26/10/26), but your point still stands.

 

[Armchair Bob]

Following on from post #1996, class 153s 922, 926 and 329 have been reinstated to traffic from store, the latter two this week. That just leaves 312 (reportedly being worked on at Crewe) and 921 (presumably at Landore) yet to re-appear to bring the operational fleet back up to 30 vehicles. Disappointingly, as far as l could see, only 7 pairs were out today (3 AT sets and 4 3+9 sets), which is only 50% usage. AT06 has been out of traffic for several months for some reason, and as things stand units AT02, AT03, 320, 323, 333, 369, 910, 913, 922 and 926 also seem to be off for maintenance, perhaps awaiting parts.

 

[Jez]

Following on from post #1996, class 153s 922, 926 and 329 have been reinstated to traffic from store, the latter two this week. That just leaves 312 (reportedly being worked on at Crewe) and 921 (presumably at Landore) yet to re-appear to bring the operational fleet back up to 30 vehicles. Disappointingly, as far as l could see, only 7 pairs were out today (3 AT sets and 4 3+9 sets), which is only 50% usage. AT06 has been out of traffic for several months for some reason, and as things stand units AT02, AT03, 320, 323, 333, 369, 910, 913, 922 and 926 also seem to be off for maintenance, perhaps awaiting parts.

In the long term diagrams (May to September) there are only a few booked workings for the non AT 153 sets from memory. I believe a pair doing one of the Ebbw Vale to Newports and a few on Swanline/West Wales services. Its just as well they have them to cover as today there seems to be lots of Sprinters out - every service out of Ebbw Vale is a Sprinter, both to Maesteg and Newport. Plus there is a pair of 153s on one of the Cheltenham's and quite a few Swanline/West Wales workings are either 150, 153 pairs or AT 153s.