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Tyne & Wear car 4020 saved for preservation

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
952
I know this might sound harsh but the owners who have preserved 4020 are really milking the vandalism that has occured and come across as extremely naive in terms of going to all the local press and the local BBC and the seemingly lack of understanding why it's been done.

I mean the people who done it must feel like Christmas has come early, you have the owners posing infront the vandalism and the BBC taking photos of it and putting it online.

No idea how these things work but would the owners get money from the local press companies for doing these poses and give quotes out? Is there a cynical to it all?
 
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RailUK Forums

35B

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2011
Messages
5,542
I know this might sound harsh but the owners who have preserved 4020 are really milking the vandalism that has occured and come across as extremely naive in terms of going to all the local press and the local BBC and the seemingly lack of understanding why it's been done.

I mean the people who done it must feel like Christmas has come early, you have the owners posing infront the vandalism and the BBC taking photos of it and putting it online.

No idea how these things work but would the owners get money from the local press companies for doing these poses and give quotes out? Is there a cynical to it all?
They wouldn't get payment from the press, but they may judge it worthwhile in terms of raising their profile and getting more paying visitors
 

Peter Sarf

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12 Oct 2010
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9,729
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Croydon
They wouldn't get payment from the press, but they may judge it worthwhile in terms of raising their profile and getting more paying visitors
I just hope it is not clear whose tags it is as that is the publicity/recognition the scrotes crave and it only encourages them.
 

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
952
I just hope it is not clear whose tags it is as that is the publicity/recognition the scrotes crave and it only encourages them.

Oh it's clear alright, you have the owners bizarrely doing a pose Infront of one of the tags and the BBC posting a photo of the other.

I mean given the publicity and the fact it's just left out in the open then this was always likely to happen yet the quotes from them seem to suggest utter disbelief and amazement such an act has occured.

I can't help but feel cynical about this, as I said in a previous post, this is like Christmas coming early for the criminals.
 

RUK

Member
Joined
5 Aug 2009
Messages
481
Location
East of England
I know this might sound harsh but the owners who have preserved 4020 are really milking the vandalism that has occured and come across as extremely naive in terms of going to all the local press and the local BBC and the seemingly lack of understanding why it's been done.

I mean the people who done it must feel like Christmas has come early, you have the owners posing infront the vandalism and the BBC taking photos of it and putting it online.

No idea how these things work but would the owners get money from the local press companies for doing these poses and give quotes out? Is there a cynical to it all?
They might not realise - so why not contact them and let them know? Presumably they can be e-mailed. It might help prevent them from seeking publicity coverage of it if it happens again, if they don’t realise that it’s what the people doing the graffiti want, which I didn’t know myself before reading about that on this forum recently. Especially if you think that it’s likely to happen again, because they’re stored out in the open. Building covered storage takes time - it can’t happen instantly. People who are naïve won’t magically suddenly know any better, unless they’re informed by someone who knows otherwise. Presumably the press don’t realise that it’s what the people doing the graffiti want too, otherwise they would explain that to the museum when contacted, and hence not cover it. The BBC is meant to be run in the public interest. Or is the cynicism saying that the museum did the graffiti themselves, in order to get the attention?
 
Last edited:

Peter Sarf

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12 Oct 2010
Messages
9,729
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Croydon
They might not realise - so why not contact them and let them know? Presumably they can be e-mailed. It might help prevent them from seeking publicity coverage of it if it happens again, if they don’t realise that it’s what the people doing the graffiti want, which I didn’t know myself before reading about that on this forum recently. Especially if you think that it’s likely to happen again, because they’re stored out in the open. Building covered storage takes time - it can’t happen instantly. People who are naïve won’t magically suddenly know any better, unless they’re informed by someone who knows otherwise. Presumably the press don’t realise that it’s what the people doing the graffiti want too, otherwise they would explain that to the museum when contacted, and hence not cover it. The BBC is meant to be run in the public interest. Or is the cynicism saying that the museum did the graffiti themselves, in order to get the attention?
I doubt the press would let details like that about tagging (I doubt it is graffiti) get in the way of a story - especially as they also want attention (for their advertisers).
 

390Trains

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74
Location
Sunderland
I doubt the press would let details like that about tagging (I doubt it is graffiti) get in the way of a story - especially as they also want attention (for their advertisers).
The BBC doesn't have advertising, so they're not looking to make a quick buck in advertising revenue.
 

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
952
They might not realise - so why not contact them and let them know? Presumably they can be e-mailed. It might help prevent them from seeking publicity coverage of it if it happens again, if they don’t realise that it’s what the people doing the graffiti want, which I didn’t know myself before reading about that on this forum recently. Especially if you think that it’s likely to happen again, because they’re stored out in the open. Building covered storage takes time - it can’t happen instantly. People who are naïve won’t magically suddenly know any better, unless they’re informed by someone who knows otherwise. Presumably the press don’t realise that it’s what the people doing the graffiti want too, otherwise they would explain that to the museum when contacted, and hence not cover it. The BBC is meant to be run in the public interest. Or is the cynicism saying that the museum did the graffiti themselves, in order to get the attention?

Absolutely not, not even hinted that could be the case!

However I have seen the owner now wants people to donate to help the museum to build a shed for the metrocar and yes, there is yet another press release about it with another pose Infront of the metrocar with graffiti on it.

Whilst it's all well and good that someone wants to preserve a metrocar, the lack of preparation and naivety is pretty obvious too see. It's ashame Beamish couldn't(or wouldn't) take the metrocar instead, they probably would of been better prepared I would imagine.
 

Magrar

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195
Location
Reading
Are people really giving grief to a museum that took a vehicle on at short notice? Just wow.

The scroats who did this are the only guilty parties. They do it because we do not apply any remotely appropriate consequences for their disgusting behavior.

I'm glad it didn't go to Beamish, it's 30 years outside even their newest areas.
 
Joined
12 Jun 2015
Messages
77
Are people really giving grief to a museum that took a vehicle on at short notice? Just wow.

The scroats who did this are the only guilty parties. They do it because we do not apply any remotely appropriate consequences for their disgusting behavior.

I'm glad it didn't go to Beamish, it's 30 years outside even their newest areas.
Well said sir!
 

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
952
Are people really giving grief to a museum that took a vehicle on at short notice? Just wow.

The scroats who did this are the only guilty parties. They do it because we do not apply any remotely appropriate consequences for their disgusting behavior.

I'm glad it didn't go to Beamish, it's 30 years outside even their newest areas.

Just wow, your on a forum where we aloud to have opinions/debate.

It's all very nice that a metrocar is preserved even albeit it's very unlikely it will ever be able to run on its own power but that does not change the fact that the owners in my opinion have definitely milked the vandalism that has occured(I mean posing infront of the vandalism is not a good look) and have came across naive in thinking why it's been done.

As for the metrocar being quite a bit newer than the other stock Beamish has then who cares? We could always say why is there a train inside an Aircraft and sea museum, looks a bit out of place but again who cares?!
 

Snex

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Joined
20 Jun 2018
Messages
454
As for the metrocar being quite a bit newer than the other stock Beamish has then who cares? We could always say why is there a train inside an Aircraft and sea museum, looks a bit out of place but again who cares?!

Beamish is a museum about North East living upto, currently, the 1950's. It's not a transport museum so something from the 1970/80's doesn't belong there.
 
Joined
12 Jun 2015
Messages
77
Just wow, your on a forum where we aloud to have opinions/debate.

It's all very nice that a metrocar is preserved even albeit it's very unlikely it will ever be able to run on its own power but that does not change the fact that the owners in my opinion have definitely milked the vandalism that has occured(I mean posing infront of the vandalism is not a good look) and have came across naive in thinking why it's been done.

As for the metrocar being quite a bit newer than the other stock Beamish has then who cares? We could always say why is there a train inside an Aircraft and sea museum, looks a bit out of place but again who cares?!
NELSAM North East Land Sea and Air Museum. The Metro trains run on land I believe so what is your problem?
 

StoneRoad

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6 Jan 2010
Messages
486
Location
Haltwhistle
Beamish is a museum about North East living upto, currently, the 1950's. It's not a transport museum so something from the 1970/80's doesn't belong there.
Beamish started off with the Town setting in 1913, then went back a bit for the agriculture / farming [I can't recall the exact dates atm] in a couple of areas. The most recent area to open is the 1950s. I can see them considering another time jump in the future ...

It has the Pockerley Waggonway, a short bit of standard gauge as well as some narrow gauge.
Plus the tramway circuit, of course. Now includes some buses. I think they are giving up on the trolleybus.
Which are all part of experiencing history.

However, I get the impression that exhibits often have to work for their living ... and that can be hard on older [restored] items.
Much like some heritage railways and even the current mainline system that all activity requires the items receive suitable / preventative / routine maintenance.
 

Magrar

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195
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Beamish started off with the Town setting in 1913, then went back a bit for the agriculture / farming [I can't recall the exact dates atm] in a couple of areas. The most recent area to open is the 1950s. I can see them considering another time jump in the future ...

It has the Pockerley Waggonway, a short bit of standard gauge as well as some narrow gauge.
Plus the tramway circuit, of course. Now includes some buses. I think they are giving up on the trolleybus.
Which are all part of experiencing history.

However, I get the impression that exhibits often have to work for their living ... and that can be hard on older [restored] items.
Much like some heritage railways and even the current mainline system that all activity requires the items receive suitable / preventative / routine maintenance.
They're only just building the 50's part now, as it slips from something you can ask your grandparents about, to something you can only read about, so that gives you some idea of how they like to do things.

The working items as well as humans in period costume bring the museum to life, that being the selling point. It is a living museum, so there's no information boards or interpretation paraganalia (bar the map and guidebook, an essential). You just walk through and experience it.

But as such, static displays and the general vibe, matters just as much as working items, and operation is by no means essential. One of the best times to visit, is when there's not much on, and thus little being operated - it means there's less kids and generic tourists getting in the way of you and the experience. In some respects, quite literally. And with a good experience, comes lots of discretionary spending. Especially since the ticket is actually an annual pass.

They are also not a transport museum in the sense of restoration/preservation, although there is a transport sub-group for that purpose. They can and do run replicas, if it adds to the experience. They don't care if vehicles only run a few hundred yards in arbitrary manner - the steam branch line literally does just that, just a run up a line from the station and then back, as does the waggonway.

In that respect, it's more of a scene based affair, and you suspect they only wired a full loop for trams for their practical use to transport visitors and/or give them a decent view of the whole site, which is quite large, rather than seeking an authentic experience of trams (although as said, the authenticity of operation, such as uniforms, is also important).

That's why they don't particularly mind having trams from wildly different eras calling at the same stops, while vehicles from yet more eras also run past. There is always a part of the site where they fit.

They have a giant stores, so they hoarded plenty of items over the years to now display for this latest 50s period, items such as crockery etc.

So there's the issue for Beamish. One day they might wish to build an 80s area (although the available space might be an issue - the only reason I can see why the 50s area is literally next to the original town, is space).

But do they have the space to store a MetroCar, and would they want the expense of ensuring it could run? I think not. I think they'd prefer to go the route of either a static mockup or some kind of replica, for which quite obviously, having an original unit would be desireable.

Never mind ensuring the unit can run, it would be a stretch to build the infrastructure necessary, only to run it a few hundred yards in and out of one station as part of an 80s scene, most likely a council estate, with houses and a corner shop, maybe a Chinese take away. Some NBC/PTE buses and stops. A time of optimism, before everything went into decline.

So therefore I do hope someone at Nexus, as the custodians of this social and physical history, has been smart enough to ensure that a unit has been kept, perhaps one that's suffered a terminal failure, not for immediate display at a museum, but long term storage, preferably in their own secure areas.

Because if Beamish ever wants it, on current evidence, they're not going to be asking for it until say 2050, and won't be bothered if it's a non-runner and cannot be made to run again (under it's own power). They might only want to make the doors operational, replicate the original sound and feel. And this will probably only be after they have somehow found a way to expand the site.

Obviously the dream would be a short stretch of straight track, from an "underground" station to one of the suburban stations, both the "new" (and thus most 80s Metroish) style. As they have done with other areas, Beamish typicay waits until a building is about to be demolished, and then takes it brick by brick, to be rebuilt on site.

So there's another issue. Will Nexus ever actually upgrade the Metro by completely rebuilding the "new" stations, the ones built from prefab concrete and steel work? Probably not.

It will all be down to Nexus. So don't hold your breath I'd say.
 

NorthEastern

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Joined
2 Nov 2023
Messages
127
Location
Alnmouth
They're only just building the 50's part now, as it slips from something you can ask your grandparents about, to something you can only read about, so that gives you some idea of how they like to do things.

The working items as well as humans in period costume bring the museum to life, that being the selling point. It is a living museum, so there's no information boards or interpretation paraganalia (bar the map and guidebook, an essential). You just walk through and experience it.

But as such, static displays and the general vibe, matters just as much as working items, and operation is by no means essential. One of the best times to visit, is when there's not much on, and thus little being operated - it means there's less kids and generic tourists getting in the way of you and the experience. In some respects, quite literally. And with a good experience, comes lots of discretionary spending. Especially since the ticket is actually an annual pass.

They are also not a transport museum in the sense of restoration/preservation, although there is a transport sub-group for that purpose. They can and do run replicas, if it adds to the experience. They don't care if vehicles only run a few hundred yards in arbitrary manner - the steam branch line literally does just that, just a run up a line from the station and then back, as does the waggonway.

In that respect, it's more of a scene based affair, and you suspect they only wired a full loop for trams for their practical use to transport visitors and/or give them a decent view of the whole site, which is quite large, rather than seeking an authentic experience of trams (although as said, the authenticity of operation, such as uniforms, is also important).

That's why they don't particularly mind having trams from wildly different eras calling at the same stops, while vehicles from yet more eras also run past. There is always a part of the site where they fit.

They have a giant stores, so they hoarded plenty of items over the years to now display for this latest 50s period, items such as crockery etc.

So there's the issue for Beamish. One day they might wish to build an 80s area (although the available space might be an issue - the only reason I can see why the 50s area is literally next to the original town, is space).

But do they have the space to store a MetroCar, and would they want the expense of ensuring it could run? I think not. I think they'd prefer to go the route of either a static mockup or some kind of replica, for which quite obviously, having an original unit would be desireable.

Never mind ensuring the unit can run, it would be a stretch to build the infrastructure necessary, only to run it a few hundred yards in and out of one station as part of an 80s scene, most likely a council estate, with houses and a corner shop, maybe a Chinese take away. Some NBC/PTE buses and stops. A time of optimism, before everything went into decline.

So therefore I do hope someone at Nexus, as the custodians of this social and physical history, has been smart enough to ensure that a unit has been kept, perhaps one that's suffered a terminal failure, not for immediate display at a museum, but long term storage, preferably in their own secure areas.

Because if Beamish ever wants it, on current evidence, they're not going to be asking for it until say 2050, and won't be bothered if it's a non-runner and cannot be made to run again (under it's own power). They might only want to make the doors operational, replicate the original sound and feel. And this will probably only be after they have somehow found a way to expand the site.

Obviously the dream would be a short stretch of straight track, from an "underground" station to one of the suburban stations, both the "new" (and thus most 80s Metroish) style. As they have done with other areas, Beamish typicay waits until a building is about to be demolished, and then takes it brick by brick, to be rebuilt on site.

So there's another issue. Will Nexus ever actually upgrade the Metro by completely rebuilding the "new" stations, the ones built from prefab concrete and steel work? Probably not.

It will all be down to Nexus. So don't hold your breath I'd say.
I wonder if in a few years the “new” metro stations will become the architectural gems of the 1980s. In the way that brutalist buildings of the 60s have their own following now and are sometimes Listed buildings. (Unless you ever had to live in one)
 

HfdNcl

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2023
Messages
28
Location
North East
I wonder if in a few years the “new” metro stations will become the architectural gems of the 1980s. In the way that brutalist buildings of the 60s have their own following now and are sometimes Listed buildings. (Unless you ever had to live in one)
Jesmond station features in Simon Jenkins' 100 best stations. I had hoped that nexus would preserve the station as at was, but they decided to crudely trace over the large blue 'Jesmond' lettering with black matt paint. Hopefully this can be undone, as it has with one of the large red 'Manors' lettering at Manors (although whatever chemical they used seems to have slightly stained the panels).
 

Peter Sarf

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12 Oct 2010
Messages
9,729
Location
Croydon
I
They're only just building the 50's part now, as it slips from something you can ask your grandparents about, to something you can only read about, so that gives you some idea of how they like to do things.

The working items as well as humans in period costume bring the museum to life, that being the selling point. It is a living museum, so there's no information boards or interpretation paraganalia (bar the map and guidebook, an essential). You just walk through and experience it.

But as such, static displays and the general vibe, matters just as much as working items, and operation is by no means essential. One of the best times to visit, is when there's not much on, and thus little being operated - it means there's less kids and generic tourists getting in the way of you and the experience. In some respects, quite literally. And with a good experience, comes lots of discretionary spending. Especially since the ticket is actually an annual pass.

They are also not a transport museum in the sense of restoration/preservation, although there is a transport sub-group for that purpose. They can and do run replicas, if it adds to the experience. They don't care if vehicles only run a few hundred yards in arbitrary manner - the steam branch line literally does just that, just a run up a line from the station and then back, as does the waggonway.

In that respect, it's more of a scene based affair, and you suspect they only wired a full loop for trams for their practical use to transport visitors and/or give them a decent view of the whole site, which is quite large, rather than seeking an authentic experience of trams (although as said, the authenticity of operation, such as uniforms, is also important).

That's why they don't particularly mind having trams from wildly different eras calling at the same stops, while vehicles from yet more eras also run past. There is always a part of the site where they fit.

They have a giant stores, so they hoarded plenty of items over the years to now display for this latest 50s period, items such as crockery etc.

So there's the issue for Beamish. One day they might wish to build an 80s area (although the available space might be an issue - the only reason I can see why the 50s area is literally next to the original town, is space).

But do they have the space to store a MetroCar, and would they want the expense of ensuring it could run? I think not. I think they'd prefer to go the route of either a static mockup or some kind of replica, for which quite obviously, having an original unit would be desireable.

Never mind ensuring the unit can run, it would be a stretch to build the infrastructure necessary, only to run it a few hundred yards in and out of one station as part of an 80s scene, most likely a council estate, with houses and a corner shop, maybe a Chinese take away. Some NBC/PTE buses and stops. A time of optimism, before everything went into decline.

So therefore I do hope someone at Nexus, as the custodians of this social and physical history, has been smart enough to ensure that a unit has been kept, perhaps one that's suffered a terminal failure, not for immediate display at a museum, but long term storage, preferably in their own secure areas.

Because if Beamish ever wants it, on current evidence, they're not going to be asking for it until say 2050, and won't be bothered if it's a non-runner and cannot be made to run again (under it's own power). They might only want to make the doors operational, replicate the original sound and feel. And this will probably only be after they have somehow found a way to expand the site.

Obviously the dream would be a short stretch of straight track, from an "underground" station to one of the suburban stations, both the "new" (and thus most 80s Metroish) style. As they have done with other areas, Beamish typicay waits until a building is about to be demolished, and then takes it brick by brick, to be rebuilt on site.

So there's another issue. Will Nexus ever actually upgrade the Metro by completely rebuilding the "new" stations, the ones built from prefab concrete and steel work? Probably not.

It will all be down to Nexus. So don't hold your breath I'd say.
I fear 80s style concrete buildings are not so easy to move piece by piece - the pieces being a lot bigger than bricks.
 

NorthEastern

Member
Joined
2 Nov 2023
Messages
127
Location
Alnmouth
Jesmond station features in Simon Jenkins' 100 best stations. I had hoped that nexus would preserve the station as at was, but they decided to crudely trace over the large blue 'Jesmond' lettering with black matt paint. Hopefully this can be undone, as it has with one of the large red 'Manors' lettering at Manors (although whatever chemical they used seems to have slightly stained the panels).
Whereabouts at Manors is the large red lettering please ?
 

Magrar

On Moderation
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Messages
195
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Reading
I

I fear 80s style concrete buildings are not so easy to move piece by piece - the pieces being a lot bigger than bricks.
Well the Metro stations at least were seemingly built as prefabs, i.e. transportable and just slotted together on site.

Whether decades of being in situ means they can be dismantled easily, is a good question.

It's moot, because I seriously doubt Nexus ever intends to upgrade them, thus freeing up the original materials. They will likely be seen the same way as Ashington's bus shelter "stations". Still good enough, even after decades of wear and tear.
 

Snex

Member
Joined
20 Jun 2018
Messages
454
They're only just building the 50's part now, as it slips from something you can ask your grandparents about, to something you can only read about, so that gives you some idea of how they like to do things.

The working items as well as humans in period costume bring the museum to life, that being the selling point. It is a living museum, so there's no information boards or interpretation paraganalia (bar the map and guidebook, an essential). You just walk through and experience it.

But as such, static displays and the general vibe, matters just as much as working items, and operation is by no means essential. One of the best times to visit, is when there's not much on, and thus little being operated - it means there's less kids and generic tourists getting in the way of you and the experience. In some respects, quite literally. And with a good experience, comes lots of discretionary spending. Especially since the ticket is actually an annual pass.

They are also not a transport museum in the sense of restoration/preservation, although there is a transport sub-group for that purpose. They can and do run replicas, if it adds to the experience. They don't care if vehicles only run a few hundred yards in arbitrary manner - the steam branch line literally does just that, just a run up a line from the station and then back, as does the waggonway.

In that respect, it's more of a scene based affair, and you suspect they only wired a full loop for trams for their practical use to transport visitors and/or give them a decent view of the whole site, which is quite large, rather than seeking an authentic experience of trams (although as said, the authenticity of operation, such as uniforms, is also important).

That's why they don't particularly mind having trams from wildly different eras calling at the same stops, while vehicles from yet more eras also run past. There is always a part of the site where they fit.

They have a giant stores, so they hoarded plenty of items over the years to now display for this latest 50s period, items such as crockery etc.

So there's the issue for Beamish. One day they might wish to build an 80s area (although the available space might be an issue - the only reason I can see why the 50s area is literally next to the original town, is space).

But do they have the space to store a MetroCar, and would they want the expense of ensuring it could run? I think not. I think they'd prefer to go the route of either a static mockup or some kind of replica, for which quite obviously, having an original unit would be desireable.

Never mind ensuring the unit can run, it would be a stretch to build the infrastructure necessary, only to run it a few hundred yards in and out of one station as part of an 80s scene, most likely a council estate, with houses and a corner shop, maybe a Chinese take away. Some NBC/PTE buses and stops. A time of optimism, before everything went into decline.

So therefore I do hope someone at Nexus, as the custodians of this social and physical history, has been smart enough to ensure that a unit has been kept, perhaps one that's suffered a terminal failure, not for immediate display at a museum, but long term storage, preferably in their own secure areas.

Because if Beamish ever wants it, on current evidence, they're not going to be asking for it until say 2050, and won't be bothered if it's a non-runner and cannot be made to run again (under it's own power). They might only want to make the doors operational, replicate the original sound and feel. And this will probably only be after they have somehow found a way to expand the site.

Obviously the dream would be a short stretch of straight track, from an "underground" station to one of the suburban stations, both the "new" (and thus most 80s Metroish) style. As they have done with other areas, Beamish typicay waits until a building is about to be demolished, and then takes it brick by brick, to be rebuilt on site.

So there's another issue. Will Nexus ever actually upgrade the Metro by completely rebuilding the "new" stations, the ones built from prefab concrete and steel work? Probably not.

It will all be down to Nexus. So don't hold your breath I'd say.

Good post and can't disagree with any of it.

Btw imagine if they wanted a Metrocar they'd just get 4001 or 4020. Can see one of them being happy to give their unit up for Beamish.
 

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