Peaks and Dales line - feasibility study submitted

[Farigiraf]

What I find interesting is that the party line is the Greens hate Reform and want nothing to do with them yet I have come across a few things where Reform and the Greens are working together and sometimes you have Reform and Greens on one side and all the rest including the Conservatives on the other.

Think that's more about political strategy than policy to be fair. The further from the centre you go (or the more populist you go), the bigger promises you can make without fearing the consequences of a broken promise.

Major regional projects with little chance of happening, like the Peaks & Dales line, are the sort of things that a politician which values some progress over none wouldn't devote almost all their time to. You'd spend your entire career campaigning for one project, and if by some (incredibly small) chance your campaign works, the effect wouldn't be hugely impactful on a national level anyway.

That's not to say that it wouldn't improve many people's lives, but a voter in Plymouth, Redcar or Canterbury most likely won't know about John Smith of the Big Promises Party who heroically managed to convince the government to fund reopening the Peaks & Dales line after 3 decades of campaigning. So basically if you're the sort of politician who sticks to commitments, this isn't the sort of thing you'd want to commit your time to, as you'll most likely waste a lot of time for nothing.

Projects of regional importance that still carry a £1bn+ price tag are the sorts of projects that either a government wants or doesn't - Smaller price tag projects, like a local bus improvement or new train station, are the sorts of things that local campaign groups or politicians are best at campaigning for, as they're of great local importance but still can fairly easily be fit into a DfT or council budget.

However, (and this is the main point) if you're from a party that either A: doesn't have any concrete plans to fulful promises, or B: is fairly confident that they won't have to try and fulfil their promises, due to being fairly low in the polls, then there's no real downside to saying 'build this, build that' - it wins votes and you don't really have to justify your opinion. Will the Green or Reform councillor be asked 'what'll be cut to pay for this big project?' Most likely not. But a Labour, Conservative or LibDem one may. Of course, these things change as parties grow in support and politicians from formerly small parties get more experience in positions of power, where they have to make tough decisions.

 

[Teapot42]

A while back I was watching a program on NHK about a rural Japanese railway that had developed railbuses. As in buses which could lower wheels and run on the rails for part of the journey.

I know the UK tends to be more resistant to innovations such as this, but could something similar be used here? Even if it's only a shuttle from Buxton, you can dodge a lot of traffic by using the existing freight route south to Blackwell Mill, then either on to the road, or have part of the Monsal Trail made in to a single track road for such buses to shuttle down.

I don't think there can be much argument that something needs to be done in the area to address leisure traffic, and the 'easy' option of pricing people out of the car doesn't seem like the option that will most benefit hte area. Buses will always struggle with the volume of traffic, out of town / village park and ride schemes will never be allowed, so providing something which can bypass much of the traffic seems the only viable option.

 

[WAO]

That’s not the point.

The point is that an electric bus/coach wins hands down in environmental terms compared to a diesel railway. And therefore any environmental argument used for opening a new line has to take that into account.

...but you would not compare an electric bus against a Diesel railway in 2026, anymore than you would compare a Diesel urban bus against a busy electric railway. The modern likely comparison would be with a BEMU or for very busy lines an EMU service.

Our Reading electric buses have the additional advantage of an electric heat pump (as there is no engine waste heat) so have both effective heating and ventilation (at last) and cooling, much appreciated in the present weather.

There are clearly change over points in terms of capacity, journey time and access, between rail and bus, even allowing for public subsidy. There is an environmental (global warming) argument against almost any human activity, including breathing.

WAO

 

[Bald Rick]

but you would not compare an electric bus against a Diesel railway in 2026, anymore than you would compare a Diesel urban bus against a busy electric railway. The modern likely comparison would be with a BEMU or for very busy lines an EMU service.

Quite so, and I wonder if this proposal has included the cost of the necessary electrification and rolling stock for electric or BEMU operstion.

Even then, an environmental comparison of new BEMUs on a new railway through a national park compared to some new electric buses on existing roads is very, very likely to come out in favour of the latter. As would any socio-economic value comparison.

 

[WAO]

Quite so, and I wonder if this proposal has included the cost of the necessary electrification and rolling stock for electric or BEMU operstion.

Even then, an environmental comparison of new BEMUs on a new railway through a national park compared to some new electric buses on existing roads is very, very likely to come out in favour of the latter. As would any socio-economic value comparison.

Agreed for the lowish passenger volumes likely on some schemes touted.

Only if a "third way" of reinstatement and operation could be found could rail become a possibility.

Even then the money is needed to power the EC and WC main lines adequately.

WAO

 

[Northumbriana]

I think ideas like this should be a combined road and rail link. Even if unlikely to ever get off the ground.

How the Norway method could revive Peak District road tunnel

Experts say "drill and blast" techniques in Norway could be used, slashing the cost to £2bn.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Merle Haggard]

Am I the only one to wonder why there's excited talk of electric trains from Derby to Bakewell and Miller's Dale but there's no active plan for throughout electric trains from London to Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield...

 

[Zomboid]

I think ideas like this should be a combined road and rail link. Even if unlikely to ever get off the ground.

How the Norway method could revive Peak District road tunnel

Experts say "drill and blast" techniques in Norway could be used, slashing the cost to £2bn.

www.bbc.co.uk

There's a nice fluffy throwaway about using savings to fund reopening Woodhead. It'd be much more sensible to use any such savings to fund a second/third bore for a railway, if indeed there is a requirement for a new line between Manchester and Sheffield.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

A lot of the unlined Norwegian tunnels are through granite and gneiss - rather stronger than the Peak District geology!