Reform UK discussion

[Broucek]

Establishment: old money, old school tie, old networks, People with genuine wealth, often handed down through generations,

What Farage, and those similar to him are is people who are new to money but don't have the networks, or acceptance of those above

Came here to say something similar. Although I'd slightly expand "establishment" to include people from "respectable" but not necessarily well-paid professions

For example, a senior civil servant or very senior academic who went to Dulwich College might be considered more "establishment" that Farage - but probably less wealthy!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2026 ==

It's a slight aside (if the admins will allow) but people often feel being "outsiders" quite accutely. John Prescott seemed to remain very upset because unlikely his brother he failed the 11+ and didn't get the reward from his parent of a new bike. At the time of the interview I saw this in, he was the Deputy PM of the country which most people would say was an impressive achievement....

 

[35B]

Came here to say something similar. Although I'd slightly expand "establishment" to include people from "respectable" but not necessarily well-paid professions

For example, a senior civil servant or very senior academic who went to Dulwich College might be considered more "establishment" that Farage - but probably less wealthy!

There is still a slight social stigma where status is directly related to being "in trade", which is only resolved by becoming really senior at it - which he never did

 

[jon0844]

Except I think that at base it does. The focus is on immigrants because it's always easier to pick on the outsider (and there are quite possibly some fair points buried amongst the dross) but the message is falling on such fertile ground because a large section of society sees itself as having been ignored by "the establishment". That body of people is by no means homogenous but I'm sure the majority would say there is a class system and an elite and that they are either disadvantaged / disenfranchising principally because of it (or occasionally - in the case of "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells'" 21st century successor - despite it.

While I am sure he's very nice and racist like his base, I am not sure Farage is really that bothered about immigration. He wants Reform (or whatever the party is called that day) to get rid of worker rights, make money from the NHS, loosen or axe regulations and all the things that benefit himself and donors.

He can't really create a party called 'The 1%ers - make us rich again' so needs support from everyone else - the 99% - to stand any chance of power and achieving his aims. So he does what everyone else has done throughout history; creates a scapegoat and goes on and on about that. It angers the people and he gets support. He makes bold promises he not only can't keep, but likely doesn't want to keep because he needs immigrants to be a thing people are always upset about. Fix the problem and people might start to look closer at what he's doing, and at some point begin to realise that maybe they were lied to.

It's happening to MAGA, slowly. Still a long way to go before the spell is lifted (maybe only after Trump dies) but it IS happening.

Reform is our MAGA. A loyal base willing to tolerate anything (crime is good if it gets the job done) as long as the black and brown people are rounded up and deported, or just put in camps, who cares - just don't let me see them on the street or in jobs that I can't do but I don't want them doing either.

 

[Broucek]

While I am sure he's very nice and racist like his base...

Unfair to take this quote out of context, I know...

But there's quite a bit of denial on the forum about the nature of suppport for Reform

There are not enough genuine racists for Reform to get its current level of support. And there are people who are not racist and have legitimite concerns about social and economic impact of levels of immigration that are historically extremely high and fall most heavily on people lower down the social "tree". Those concerns have been ignored for years by the Tories, Labour, the LibDems and the Greens. Those people feel heard by Farage - he may or may not be sincere but the other parties are not even pretending to understand their concerns...

(edited for typos)

 

[35B]

Unfair to take this quote out of context, I know...

But there's quite a bit of denial on the forum about the naure of suppport for Reform

There are not enough genuine racists for Reform to get its current level of support. And there are people who are not racist and have legitimite concerns about the social and economic impact of levels of immigration that are historically extremely high and fall most heavily on people lower down the social "tree". Those concerns have been ignored for years by the Tories, Labour, the LibDems and the Greens. Those people feel heard by Farage - he may or not be sincere but the other parties are not even pretending to understand their concerns...

Precisely. And as we saw in the 2015 General Election, that constitiency is significantly weighted to traditionally Labour voting areas. Just as some of the strongest support for Enoch Powell came from the dockworkers.

 

[jon0844]

Unfair to take this quote out of context, I know...

But there's quite a bit of denial on the forum about the naure of suppport for Reform

There are not enough genuine racists for Reform to get its current level of support. And there are people who are not racist and have legitimite concerns about the social and economic impact of levels of immigration that are historically extremely high and fall most heavily on people lower down the social "tree". Those concerns have been ignored for years by the Tories, Labour, the LibDems and the Greens. Those people feel heard by Farage - he may or not be sincere but the other parties are not even pretending to understand their concerns...

But Reform has no policies for almost anything, let alone costing things out. They do reveal more at private meetings and conferences, sometimes getting leaked out, but it's never talked about to anyone else - like their voters. All we hear is boats this, boats that.

Why isn't it just called the Stop The Boats party at this point?

Going after foreigners does indeed appeal to all classes for a multitude of reasons, which is why it is so effective and has been done time and fine again.

That also includes different religions, people with disabilities and more.

An awful lot of traditional Labour voters have switched to Reform which seems so bizarre because the party absolutely isn't about helping the working class.

They're just deemed useful idiots and can be told that they're struggling because those foreigners are here to take their jobs, their homes and all the things they'd have if Reform was in power.

 

[Broucek]

But Reform has no policies for almost anything, let alone costing things out. They do reveal more at private meetings and conferences, sometimes getting leaked out, but it's never talked about to anyone else - like their voters. All we hear is boats this, boats that.

Respectfully, I fear you're missing my point. I don't disagree that Reform is not remotely ready to govern and may never be. But there is a double digit (at least) percentage of voters that is very concerned about immigration and is being ignored by politicians in the other parties. And those voter concerns about immigration have some validity in terms of the social and economic impacts of bringing in hundreds of thousands every year

 

[jon0844]

I'm not missing your point. I'm saying Reform doesn't really care about immigrants.

 

[Broucek]

I'm not missing your point. I'm saying Reform doesn't really care about immigrants.

How should people who do care about immigration vote?

 

[35B]

I'm not missing your point. I'm saying Reform doesn't really care about immigrants.

It doesn't. But it's made itself attractive to many who do care for a statist and socially conservative view of the world, as well as the Monday Club fringe of the Tories.

And it's those groups that the other parties have left feeling ignored and unwanted - and who are repaying in kind

 

[martin butler]

It doesn't. But it's made itself attractive to many who do care for a statist and socially conservative view of the world, as well as the Monday Club fringe of the Tories.

And it's those groups that the other parties have left feeling ignored and unwanted - and who are repaying in kind

You also have to ask why are these people feeling so disenfranchised? Is it because they are being told on an hourly, daily basis that its immigrants that's the reason why everything is pared to the bone?

Someone who at least listened at school, and isn't easily manipulated i would hope sees through Reform, and their true nature, it's about the big donors, the 1 % who want more but expect not to pay towards it,

The reason why we have a housing problem is because we as a nation, didn't build enough of the houses we need, small starter homes, prised that people can afford them, we slashed state help, called people scroungers, demonised them, yet most of them, were actually in work,

We cut back schemes that helped parents, such as early start, affordable childcare, adult learning classes, and made to believe, there was no such thing as society, it was everyone for themselves.

 

[Purple Train]

Unfair to take this quote out of context, I know...

But there's quite a bit of denial on the forum about the nature of suppport for Reform

There are not enough genuine racists for Reform to get its current level of support. And there are people who are not racist and have legitimite concerns about social and economic impact of levels of immigration that are historically extremely high and fall most heavily on people lower down the social "tree". Those concerns have been ignored for years by the Tories, Labour, the LibDems and the Greens. Those people feel heard by Farage - he may or may not be sincere but the other parties are not even pretending to understand their concerns...

(edited for typos)

I think this is a very salient point. I think it boils down to the fact that there aren't enough genuine racists for Reform to get this level of support, but there are enough people who are broadly apathetic about politics. Those of us who comment on this thread are probably more politically-interested than the vast majority of Reform voters, so I think it's unhelpful for those who are anti-Reform to punch downwards, given the perception common amongst Reform voters that nobody but their chosen party cares about them.

I think there is a general arrogance among elements of the left that Reform voters can simply be "re-educated" out of the scapegoating that Farage and his associated media has been pushing for so long. Instead, I think that it should be of paramount importance for other parties to actually do more to engage people on a local, community level (the Greens aren't bad at this) and actually show themselves as listening to individuals rather than being interested in political posturing. Reform is built around posturing disguised as listening, while other parties seem far more interested in scooping up ideological minds of the future at grassroots level, and grand designs for running the country, than stuff that the ordinary Reform voter cares about. Reform may have the upstart factor that counts for a huge amount, but I'm sure it can be overcome. But calling Reform voters stupid and focusing on national political games and stunts is to try and beat Reform at their own game, which will never work.

The former Barking MP Baroness Hodge has written similar in the Guardian, in what I think is an excellent article:

But we understood that all politics starts from the local. People care passionately about what is happening in their immediate environment. They are not interested in the Westminster obsessions; they care about car parking, litter, the siting of a bus stop. National issues are only important to voters if they have a local impact. Between 2006 and 2010, immigration and the lack of affordable housing were the two key national issues my constituents cared about.

We focused completely on what mattered to our voters, and I transformed the way I worked. Everything had to help me reconnect with my voters. I stopped attending endless party meetings and town hall events. I focused on connecting with as many voters as I could.

I wrote directly and often to voters, asking them to coffee mornings and street meetings. I sought their support on local campaigns, such as getting a bus route diverted to a hospital. Communicating directly with people was central to our strategy. Those that came to our coffee afternoons got a decent cup of coffee and chocolate biscuits, and we listened to their concerns; we did not preach our agenda. Listening was fundamental, and at every coffee afternoon some local issue invariably emerged. We then tried to sort out the problem. We acted on what we heard, then we communicated our action back to all the voters we had invited, even if they did not all attend. We created a virtuous circle through communicating, listening, acting and communicating that helped us rebuild trust.

We also engaged openly in the difficult issues, including immigration. Not by labelling those with concerns as racist, not by promising to turn back the clock and cut immigration, but by working to understand what was causing the hostility and trying to respond to legitimate concerns. So, for instance, we argued that with so little social housing available, it was right that a family’s connection with a local community should receive some weighting in the rationing of social housing, as well as the family’s housing need. That was contentious with the left, but we wanted to burst the toxic bubble by responding to what people believed created unfairness. And we always made the positive case for immigration and the diversity it brought, for instance by taking inclusive photos on St George’s Day.

Apologies for messing up the quote formatting!

 

[speedy1]

How should people who do care about immigration vote?

Care in which direction? If you mean concerned about immigration, people should prepare to ultimately be disappointed. The asset owners and capitalists are all pro immigration really and they've captured Labour and the Conservatives (and Reform and Restore). They all perform sleights of hand and tell lies about immigration.

It seems to me that population growth in a country that refuses to build housing and sufficient infrastructure is a recipe for price rises and asset inflation and indeed has been a recipe that has been working well recently.

Reform and Restore are just there to make people think they have a choice, that there is a party that will fix all of Britain's problems by slashing immigration, absorb a load of anger, and to distract from the billionaires who now long to be trillionaires.

 

[SuspectUsual]

How should people who do care about immigration vote?

If by “care” you mean “want to stop” then probably Restore

 

[Broucek]

.... I think that it should be of paramount importance for other parties to actually do more to engage people on a local, community level (the Greens aren't bad at this) and actually show themselves as listening to individuals rather than being interested in political posturing....

The former Barking MP Baroness Hodge has written similar in the Guardian, in what I think is an excellent article:

Exactly. Her observations are right on the money - thanks for sharing

 

[35B]

You also have to ask why are these people feeling so disenfranchised? Is it because they are being told on an hourly, daily basis that its immigrants that's the reason why everything is pared to the bone?

Someone who at least listened at school, and isn't easily manipulated i would hope sees through Reform, and their true nature, it's about the big donors, the 1 % who want more but expect not to pay towards it,

The reason why we have a housing problem is because we as a nation, didn't build enough of the houses we need, small starter homes, prised that people can afford them, we slashed state help, called people scroungers, demonised them, yet most of them, were actually in work,

We cut back schemes that helped parents, such as early start, affordable childcare, adult learning classes, and made to believe, there was no such thing as society, it was everyone for themselves.

I suggest reading the article posted by @Broucek; I’d been going to point out how Labour dealt with the threat from the BNP in Barking.

It’s all and none of the factors you mention. And the cure is not about this or that policy, but the sort of real engagement that Hodge and her team did.

People like to be listened to, and see their concerns taken seriously. Do that, even if those concerns can’t be fully addressed, and the snake oil salesmen find it much harder to get a look in with their promises of single cause fixes that will deliver utopia

 

[The exile]

There are not enough genuine racists for Reform to get its current level of support. And there are people who are not racist and have legitimite concerns about social and economic impact of levels of immigration that are historically extremely high and fall most heavily on people lower down the social "tree". Those concerns have been ignored for years by the Tories, Labour, the LibDems and the Greens. Those people feel heard by Farage - he may or may not be sincere but the other parties are not even pretending to understand their concerns...

This is almost exactly what I was aiming to say, though adding that because of his background, it’ll only take a couple of slip-ups to lose that “man of the people” image (though probably not the ones currently stacking up round him).

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm not missing your point. I'm saying Reform doesn't really care about immigrants.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this. Reform use immigration, and more precisely boat people, as a distraction. They tell supporters to "Look over there at those immigrants, they want all your stuff", so that they can position themselves, well Farage can position himself to take all our stuff. It's straight out of the Trump Playbook, and is designed to further enrich the rich.

 

[Robin Edwards]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this. Reform use immigration, and more precisely boat people, as a distraction. They tell supporters to "Look over there at those immigrants, they want all your stuff", so that they can position themselves, well Farage can position himself to take all our stuff. It's straight out of the Trump Playbook, and is designed to further enrich the rich.

Powerful people have used fear and threat as a means of deceiving ordinary people throughout history. The challenge is to not allow deceivers to succeed and yet sadly, many will fail despite the evidence available to them. As a species, we're not very good at learning from history that spans our own life experience.

 

[D1537]

There are not enough genuine racists for Reform to get its current level of support. And there are people who are not racist and have legitimite concerns about social and economic impact of levels of immigration that are historically extremely high and fall most heavily on people lower down the social "tree".

I'm not sure what you mean by "genuine racists", but casual racism is normalised in many places in the UK. As someone who lives in a very white rural area I can assure you of that.

 

[317 forever]

Basically an attempt to control the narrative. Also means he'll finally have to attend Clacton.

The best chance to unseat him is for a Martin Bell-tpye candidate to stand, but that presumes there is one in the area.

There is one. Count Binface

 

[Killingworth]

There is one. Count Binface

Hopefully he'll prove up tp the serious task if and when elected.

Joke candidate H'Angus the Monkey (Hartlepool FC mascot) won the Mayoral ballot in Hartlepool and served his term well enough to be elected again not once but twice.

 

[317 forever]

I think Binface could win. Farage is popular in Essex but the people who want to vote against him may be more motivated....

Especially as people are getting voting tactically against Reform down to a fine art

 

[35B]

There is one. Count Binface

Binface is no Martin Bell - Bell’s campaign in 1997 was fundamentally different to what Binface brings.

 

[317 forever]

Binface is no Martin Bell - Bell’s campaign in 1997 was fundamentally different to what Binface brings.

I was joking about the idea that Count Binface could hoover up enough of the opposition vote

 

[brad465]

One thing Binface has going for him is the sudden rise in public profile and resultant media publicity. Ironically this is what helped Farage in the past, and now it is helping his nearest challenger in a self-inflicted by-election.

 

[edwin_m]

Binface is no Martin Bell - Bell’s campaign in 1997 was fundamentally different to what Binface brings.

We seem to have swapped a white suit for a silver one.

A Bell-like serious candidate appearing with the support of the mainstream parties to run against Farage's many questionable dealings could just be painted by Reform as "the Establishment". It's a bit more difficult (although they are still trying) to do that for a candidate who has no pretentions to seriousness but does have a way with words.

 

[D1537]

A Bell-like serious candidate appearing with the support of the mainstream parties to run against Farage's many questionable dealings could just be painted by Reform as "the Establishment". It's a bit more difficult (although they are still trying) to do that for a candidate who has no pretentions to seriousness but does have a way with words.

The fact that Reform are still trying to paint Binface as "the establishment" is actually the funniest bit of this so far. I mean, you've got a fairly regular guy with a bin on his head, versus the son of a stockbroker who went to a fee-paying school, worked as a commodities trader, spent a lot of time grifting money out of the EU parliament despite hardly ever turning up, and owns five houses. You couldn't make it up ... but Farage has tried.

 

[martin butler]

Part of me is beginning to wonder, might it actually be beneficial for Farage to lose this election?

Think about it, if he wins, he faces an investigation, that most likely will see him facing another by- election, if he chooses to stand again,
If he loses, that all stops, and he is then free to carry on with his grifting, He might still face police questioning over money laundering claims,
but he still has the means to evade justice, if he were to decide to, if he's already out of the country,

Reform, have hit their peak, and no longer can they use Starmer as a ploy, especially if Bernham fights them head on,

 

[brad465]

Part of me is beginning to wonder, might it actually be beneficial for Farage to lose this election?

Think about it, if he wins, he faces an investigation, that most likely will see him facing another by- election, if he chooses to stand again,
If he loses, that all stops, and he is then free to carry on with his grifting, He might still face police questioning over money laundering claims,
but he still has the means to evade justice, if he were to decide to, if he's already out of the country,

Reform, have hit their peak, and no longer can they use Starmer as a ploy, especially if Bernham fights them head on,

If Farage wanted to do all those things, he could just pull out and leave parliament for good. Losing to Binface would be the ultimate humiliation, such that even if he's no longer under investigation, his grifting potential plummets.