Llandudno car park and EV charging

[Djgr]

Hi

We have a dispute about the use of the EV charger at Llandudno railway station car park and whether the signage makes clear that parking charges also needs to be paid.

Does anybody have access to an image of the actual relevant signs there?

 

[P Binnersley]

There are some photos where you can read most of the notices on Google Maps (April 2025).

 

[30907]

There are some photos where you can read most of the notices on Google Maps (April 2025).

In particular the sign on the entrance says that it is a pay and display - admittedly in small print.

 

[Buzby]

As a former EV user (since 2007) it was usually understood that EV users in designated bays were not ‘parking’ but charging and therefor not liable to pay to park. As ANPR systems crept in, it was not possible to detect whether a car was an EV - which led to the introduction of the green panel on the number plate to make this easier, but not that they actually charged. This lasted for a couple of years and was worthwhile in the early days - Glasgow City Council even permitted EVs free parking in their multi-storey car parks (you didn’t need to charge) but this ended in 2013. In 2026, I’d suggest if it does not specifically state parking is free whilst charging in the T&C’s those days of EV ‘benefits’ have gone and you’ll have to cough up like everyone else, or at least be prepared to argue your case with whoever ticketed your infraction.

 

[Djgr]

As a former EV user (since 2007) it was usually understood that EV users in designated bays were not ‘parking’ but charging and therefor not liable to pay to park. As ANPR systems crept in, it was not possible to detect whether a car was an EV - which led to the introduction of the green panel on the number plate to make this easier, but not that they actually charged. This lasted for a couple of years and was worthwhile in the early days - Glasgow City Council even permitted EVs free parking in their multi-storey car parks (you didn’t need to charge) but this ended in 2013. In 2026, I’d suggest if it does not specifically state parking is free whilst charging in the T&C’s those days of EV ‘benefits’ have gone and you’ll have to cough up like everyone else, or at least be prepared to argue your case with whoever ticketed your infraction.

I am told that one of the signs for EV charging says something like "Note You have to pay for parking as well", although I am struggling to see this in any of the Google Maps images?

 

[Lukusobrien]

How did you pay for the EV charging? Going on the APCOA Connect Android app it does say you need to pay separately for parking.

 

[John Webb]

The use of darker blue lettering on a blue background for the English statements on the notices doesn't make for easy reading - why couldn't they use black print, I wonder?

 

[Adam Williams]

I am aware of appeals that have succeeded on this basis for an APCOA car park in Hertforshire.

In the customer's case, the PCN had been issued and the signage quietly updated after the day the car was parked and before the letter was sent to the registered keeper. The driver had timestamped photos that proved the signage didn't exist on the day of parking. Be aware that they (APCOA) are known to play dirty like this.

The appeal was upheld.

In 2026, I’d suggest if it does not specifically state parking is free whilst charging in the T&C’s those days of EV ‘benefits’ have gone and you’ll have to cough up like everyone else

At least historically the deal was that the cost of charging far exceeded the actual costs per-unit of power, and that was the payment because the car park owner had a deal to take a cut of the profit.

Since then, they've clearly become more greedy and realised they can add the margin on top of the per-kWh fees and charge for parking and take home a packet.

 

[Buzby]

At least historically the deal was that the cost of charging far exceeded the actual costs per-unit of power

Actually historically not only was the parking up here free, but so was the electricity as Charge Your Car & Chargeplace Scotland stations in Scotland were on ‘free vend’ for both Fast & Rapid charging points. Since ScotGov paid the full costs of the provision and installation, for the first 2 years of use the site owner could not charge for the power used. Some councils got round this by removing free parking by EV’s, where we are now is costs vary by site. EV drivers learned quickly that is was much cheaper at the Green Welly in Crainlarich to charge across the road. The steady whittling away of EV benefits including the imposition of VED where it was free before meant I voted with my wallet and went back to petrol.

 

[speedy1]

From looking at the various pictures from Google Maps reviews, there is an abundance of signage about paying:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/mgtwCZZusZBNQDZz7

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kC1bANxpkWCRD7e37

https://maps.app.goo.gl/9hCeaCxb7ZcizSmu7

https://maps.app.goo.gl/2n7Jc5KffPiYqKwAA

The big red signs in front of the electric charging "Have you paid?"

https://maps.app.goo.gl/bsyvLau5Tk2qwSW3A

The existence of a ticket machine, with a tariff next to it:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/J7gfN9WJ5rtBfqEY9

I can not see how anyone in 2026 could interpret it as not needing to pay for parking. I don't see any big sign saying "Free parking for electrical vehicles" or such. To me, it is clearly a commercial, paid car park.

 

[Djgr]

For those who are interested, we won this dispute that it is not clear that electric vehicle chargers also have to pay separately for parking.

 

[Buzby]

is not clear that electric vehicle chargers also have to pay separately for parking.

Nice to know the argument that you’re not charged when refuelling at petrol stations, so why should you when at a chargepoint? Especially as many sites restrict the maximum charging time with punitive charges for overstaying. What happens if an EV user pays for parking but overstays the chargepoint maximum? It’s a jungle out there!

 

[Djgr]

Nice to know the argument that you’re not charged when refuelling at petrol stations, so why should you when at a chargepoint? Especially as many sites restrict the maximum charging time with punitive charges for overstaying. What happens if an EV user pays for parking but overstays the chargepoint maximum? It’s a jungle out there!

Llandudno railway car park has dozens of signs, many of them different, which adds up to an incoherent mess.

 

[thejuggler]

Its also an APCOA managed car park. They generally don't bother with putting up much of a fight.