Does the UK have a "premier" main line?

[davidknibb]

Well, if history had taken a different course we might be arguing for the Great Central, if the sometimes advocated Chanel Tunnel extension had been built. But despite several proposals, it never was built until much later. And the demise and closure of much of the Great Central took place in the 1960s. One of the great 'what ifs' of history.

 

[The Ham]

Euston to Glasgow Express takes 3h28m to Carlisle, the Edinburgh via Birmingham train takes 1h17m from Carlisle to Edinburgh, so 4h45m

The fast Kings Cross to Edinburgh takes 4h08m (and is timetabled at 4h05m) with 2 stops, even if they trimmed the WCML to only stop at Preston and Carlisle (about equivalent to York and Newcastle which East Coast Expresses do) it's hard to save over 30 mins.

Although with HS2 phase 1 it would save 30 minutes (even allowing for the slowing down north of HS2 infrastructure due to non tilting), which then leads to the question; does that make HS2 or WCML the premier line (or does HS2 become the southern end of the WCML with the existing line being something like Coventry Main Line - CML)?

 

[Sorcerer]

Although with HS2 phase 1 it would save 30 minutes (even allowing for the slowing down north of HS2 infrastructure due to non tilting), which then leads to the question; does that make HS2 or WCML the premier line (or does HS2 become the southern end of the WCML with the existing line being something like Coventry Main Line - CML)?

HS2 would not become the new southern end of the WCML. It would be it's own railway and, being a high-speed one, likely will become the new premier route of Great Britain. In full it would absolutely claim this title because it's both presitigious with high-speed trains and a backbone of the nation's rail infrastructure.

 

[Poolie]

The intro to Get Carter proves there is only one premier line......Classic

 

[styles]

Got to be TfW Premier surely

But honestly it is a really good food and drink service.

 

[quantinghome]

The intro to Get Carter proves there is only one premier line......Classic

Good point. For criminals, the ECML is a mode of transport, while the WCML is a job.

 

[AndrewP]

The simple fact is that any long railway line is going to have good bits and bad bits, interesting bits and less interesting bits.

East Coast - passes some amazing buildings and has some fantastic views in places Durham, York, Newcastle, the Northumberland Coast and some of the best Victorian stations in the world

West Coast - the views through the Lune Valley are stunning and it is generally interesting although it does have the joys of Birmingham New Street but I genuinely like the period design of Euston and Coventry stations

Trains can change - I prefer Azumas to Pendolinos, rather have a harder seat than a tiny window but that's personal choice

If 'Premier' is based on service standards and hard / soft product so to me East Coast wins because I think LNER is better than Avanti but can see this being equalised under GBR

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==

The intro to Get Carter proves there is only one premier line......Classic

And how grim Newcastle was at the time, so different now, including its rail infrastructure although I am not sure Manors has improved since the film

Fantastic film

 

[Taplowgreen]

HS2 would not become the new southern end of the WCML. It would be it's own railway and, being a high-speed one, likely will become the new premier route of Great Britain. In full it would absolutely claim this title because it's both presitigious with high-speed trains and a backbone of the nation's rail infrastructure.

It certainly comes at a premier price - north of £100 billion and counting to get from Acton to Solihull?

 

[quantinghome]

Well, if history had taken a different course we might be arguing for the Great Central, if the sometimes advocated Chanel Tunnel extension had been built. But despite several proposals, it never was built until much later. And the demise and closure of much of the Great Central took place in the 1960s. One of the great 'what ifs' of history.

I don't think the Channel Tunnel extension had any chance of being built given the tunnel technology available at the time.

The Great Central was never much of a success, and its closure was entirely justified. The southern end is of course doing fine service as a commuter route.

 

[Sorcerer]

It certainly comes at a premier price - north of £100 billion and counting to get from Acton to Solihull?

Unfortunately it does seem like in Britain we are paying a more premier price for a significantly less premier route compared to the original concept.

 

[vlad]

... features like Shap Summit are completely unmarked.

There was a sign adjacent to the track last month saying you were at Shap Summit. I can't be sure it was in the right place, however.

 

[reduke]

Most important line: WCML
Busiest line: WCML
Fastest line: WCML (I don't count HS1 as a main line, it's an uncomfortable commuter line with a fast portion)
Best rolling stock: WCML
Most historic line: ECML
Best connected line: XC

Premier line: GWML Whatever the best name for the combined Paddington - Reading - Taunton-not-via-Bristol - Penzance line is...

 

[wayne2440]

I think the Midland Mainline is as close as you’ll get to a premier rail line. Fast, clean modern trains and beautiful stations.

 

[Peter0124]

I think the Midland Mainline is as close as you’ll get to a premier rail line. Fast, clean modern trains and beautiful stations.

Luton has entered the chat.

 

[WAO]

deleted

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2026 ==

I think the Midland Mainline is as close as you’ll get to a premier rail line. Fast, clean modern trains and beautiful stations.

... and it served (originally) the greatest number of population centres.
Now let's have a L&Y voice!
WAO

 

[reduke]

Luton has entered the chat.

I was sure that a /s was missing from that post ...

I wouldn't even class the MML as a main line - it doesn't connect London to any of the major population centres or go far enough north, its somehow both got too many trains and not enough capacity, its London "terminus" is a joke of a shoebox, and the "best" rolling stock it has to offer at present is just full of ironing boards...

Massively expand its southern terminus, 6 track it to St Albans, replace the Connect and TL stock with something with anywhere near comfortable seating, bring in full length intercity stock and connect it to Manchester Leeds and York and it might stand a chance of making the list.

Oh and if there are actually any beautiful stations on it that I've not seen, please post some photos!

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Nottingham and Sheffield are definitely major population centres with Derby and Leicester also fairly relevant.

 

[BrianW]

Nottingham and Sheffield are definitely major population centres with Derby and Leicester also fairly relevant.

'Size', whether of city, conurbation, travel-to-work area, etc is a perennial. Let alone prejudiced 'opinion' and assumptions that creep in.

There are also published tables of 'busyness' of stations, and related destinations ('warped' by split-ticketing).

What are the sources for expected travel, between A and B, C etc) and 'market share' of various travel modes.

I imagine that rail share of the Sheffield- London 'market' will be influenced by time and frequency of trains, 'fullness' of M1, perceptions of cost, comfort etc, micro consideration of actual origin and destination, parking, who is paying etc. Perhaps Planners have formulae that have stood the test of time.

 

[Archvile]

Team WCML here - stunning scenery, highest flows, and arguably the most prestigious and iconic train in the UK currently as the workhorse of the line.

 

[thenorthern]

I would say worldwide the most famous line is probably the Settle and Carlisle line although the West Highland Line is quite famous due to the Harry Potter films. In the grand scheme of things though neither of these lines is particularly important.

The most famous mainline worldwide would probably be the East Coast Main Line due to the Flying Scotsman.

 

[Sorcerer]

The most famous mainline worldwide would probably be the East Coast Main Line due to the Flying Scotsman.

Not necessarily. It might be the most famous steam locomotive, but it doesn't mean the line it runs on becomes famous. It's one thing to name Flying Scotsman, it's another to name the route it ran on. Conversely the same applies to the Pendolino where people might be able to name the train but not the route, and if they can then that'll more likely be down to the fact the company running it is called Avanti West Coast, not because of the line itself.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The Waterloo & City line.

Our alien visitors will experience us humans in subterranean living in addition to truly non-stop end-to-end railway service. Oh - and a few interesting watering-holes in the back streets of Waterloo / Southwark and in the City.

Can't get more premier than that.

 

[Deepgreen]

It seems there are two threads with this title.

 

[AndrewE]

It seems there are two threads with this title.

they are subtly different...

 

[thenorthern]

Tees Valley Line,

While today it's often seen as one of the most run-down lines and has several stations such as Teesside Airport, South Bank and Redcar British Steel which are favourites on this forum, it's famous for the Stockton and Darlington Railway.

 

[Deepgreen]

they are subtly different...

VERY subtly!

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Not necessarily. It might be the most famous steam locomotive, but it doesn't mean the line it runs on becomes famous. It's one thing to name Flying Scotsman, it's another to name the route it ran on. Conversely the same applies to the Pendolino where people might be able to name the train but not the route, and if they can then that'll more likely be down to the fact the company running it is called Avanti West Coast, not because of the line itself.

The ECML is also known to rail enthusiasts in other countries because of Mallard and 126 mph.

 

[Sorcerer]

The ECML is also known to rail enthusiasts in other countries because of Mallard and 126 mph.

Would it be known for it beyond that audience though? Don't get me wrong, the A4s are stunning (especially the silver ones) but I doubt many people on the street could immediately tell you what the Mallard is. I imagine even fewer could tell you why it's so significant or famous. By extension this logic would also apply to the ECML. I still quite like the earlier comparison of one line having the glamour and one having the workhorse energy.

 

[Rescars]

Historically the LNWR was dubbed "The Premier Line". It seems likely that Sir Richard Moon would have trenchant comments to make about how the WCML is being operated were he alive today!

 

[The Mercian]

WCML. The line that links 5 of the 6 biggest UK urban areas. Provides links and access to imo the two most beautiful NPs in the country, Eryri and the Lake District. It’s genuinely one of the great pieces of national infrastructure. It’s one and only drawback, the utilitarian s***hole that is Euston Station. What should and could be a shining beacon of connectivity and possibility is already a dump and promises more of the same once it’s rebuilt post HS2.