What are the busiest sections of light-rail?

[Winthorpe]

In an news item about the summer infrastructure improvements to Manchester Metrolink, there is the claim that the 'track between Trafford Bar and St Peter’s Square is one of the busiest sections of light-rail in the world'.

The track between Trafford Bar and St Peter’s Square is one of the busiest sections of light-rail in the world, with one tram passing through every 30 seconds for 20 hours a day, seven days a week.

The quote comes from this article by Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) is:—

Investment in Metrolink continues with major track and lift replacement programme

news.tfgm.com

If this stretch is 'one of the busiest sections of light-rail in the world', which sections of light-rail are as busy or busier?

 

[VT 390]

Cornbrook to Deansgate Castlefield has up to 40 trams per hour in the full timetable (5 Eccles, 5 MediaCityUK, 5 Trafford Centre, 10 Altrincham, 10 East Didsbury and 5 Manchester Airport).
So any route would need at least 40 trains/trams per hour passing over, a service every 90 seconds.

 

[AndrewE]

My wife's late uncle who grew up in Manchester used to say that there was nothing to match the queue of double deck trams to clear the crowds coming out of Old Trafford.

The long street trains we have nowadays (presumably intended to move as many people as possible per driver) can't be anything like as efficient in terms of people moved per unit time. I am waiting for a congested city to realise that they could double the road capacity by putting upper decks on their trams.

(So I would guess that Hong Kong or somewhere in India might be busier than Manchester in terms of both trams per hour and number of people moved.)
p.s. correction, apparently India has almost no trams nowadays, just single-deckers in Kolkata (according to Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_town_tramway_systems_in_India)

 

[Gostav]

My wife's late uncle who grew up in Manchester used to say that there was nothing to match the queue of double deck trams to clear the crowds coming out of Old Trafford.

The long street trains we have nowadays (presumably intended to move as many people as possible per driver) can't be anything like as efficient in terms of people moved per unit time. I am waiting for a congested city to realise that they could double the road capacity by putting upper decks on their trams.

(So I would guess that Hong Kong or somewhere in India might be busier than Manchester in terms of both trams per hour and number of people moved.)
p.s. correction, apparently India has almost no trams nowadays, just single-deckers in Kolkata (according to Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_town_tramway_systems_in_India)

Today Hong Kong tramways is the only tramway system that uses fully double decker fleet.

 

[Thames99]

My wife's late uncle who grew up in Manchester used to say that there was nothing to match the queue of double deck trams to clear the crowds coming out of Old Trafford.

There's a very slick operation after events at Old Trafford with passengers let onto the platform while an outgoing tram waits so that people are spread along ready to board quickly when the next tram arrives. Marshals organise the crowds and it's impressively well run. It's very efficient and must move a lot of people using double trams. Probably still not as good as lines of double-deck trams though ...

 

[Barry169]

My wife's late uncle who grew up in Manchester used to say that there was nothing to match the queue of double deck trams to clear the crowds coming out of Old Trafford.

Did trams reach the Home Counties in them days?

 

[marshlinker]

At a guess it will be DLR Canary Wharf, six platforms 38 trains per hour peak. 11.2m entries exits about 3 times St Peters Square the busiest on Metrolink.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Cornbrook to Deansgate Castlefield has up to 40 trams per hour in the full timetable (5 Eccles, 5 MediaCityUK, 5 Trafford Centre, 10 Altrincham, 10 East Didsbury and 5 Manchester Airport).
So any route would need at least 40 trains/trams per hour passing over, a service every 90 seconds.

I can think of several places in Prague that would exceed 40 trams per hour in one direction at peak times (ie when most routes run to an 8 minute headway, or 4 minutes in the case of the 9, 17 and 22, not the current reduced summer offerings). Štěpánská to I. P. Pavlova in the New Town is one such section, with 45 per hour, plus whatever service is running on the 23 at that point in the year.

I suspect the busiest individual stop in terms of scheduled movements would be at Malostranská, with 15 per hour on the 22, and a similar number on both the combined 2/18 and 12/15, plus 7.5 on the 20. In addition there is the 23 with at least another two, depending on the season, and the 'historic' route 42 in the northbound direction. However, as there are three possible routings to the north and two to the south of Malostranská, this is maybe not a 'section' in the sense meant by the OP?

 

[edwin_m]

My wife's late uncle who grew up in Manchester used to say that there was nothing to match the queue of double deck trams to clear the crowds coming out of Old Trafford.

The long street trains we have nowadays (presumably intended to move as many people as possible per driver) can't be anything like as efficient in terms of people moved per unit time. I am waiting for a congested city to realise that they could double the road capacity by putting upper decks on their trams.

(So I would guess that Hong Kong or somewhere in India might be busier than Manchester in terms of both trams per hour and number of people moved.)
p.s. correction, apparently India has almost no trams nowadays, just single-deckers in Kolkata (according to Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_town_tramway_systems_in_India)

Double deck trams don't double the capacity.

Firstly and most obviously the stairs take up floorspace that might otherwise be used for passengers.

Secondly the stairs and resulting constraints on door size/position will increase boarding times. This would be a particular problem at stops where many people both board and alight, such as a busy terminus or a line running through a city centre and out the other side.

Thirdly nobody has yet invented an articulated double-deck tram, so the vehicle length is limited by the structural and clearance implications of a rigid body. Even if dwell times don't limit the interval between successive trams (say if stops had platform loops used alternately, though I'm not aware of any tram that does this), this is constrained by the safe stopping distance when a tram is following another one. So if each tram can hold fewer people, the capaicty goes down accordingly.

I don't know Hong Kong, but there may be specific issues with roadspace that make double deck appropriate on the island itself, but the more recent Tuen Mun network on the mainland uses single-deck vehicles although I believe all are still rigid bodies.

 

[AndrewE]

Double deck trams don't double the capacity.

I didn't claim that they did... but I'm sure they would get more people on per unit length, on single cars anyway, which is what Uncle Stan described.

Firstly and most obviously the stairs take up floorspace that might otherwise be used for passengers.

Secondly the stairs and resulting constraints on door size/position will increase boarding times. This would be a particular problem at stops where many people both board and alight, such as a busy terminus or a line running through a city centre and out the other side.

at "a busy terminus" alighting and boarding may well happen in turn, often at different stands as I expect you will have seen - I have. They do it with buses too. In towns it's not a problem either - or should we tell Edinburgh transport that running double decker buses through the city is foolish?

Thirdly nobody has yet invented an articulated double-deck tram, so the vehicle length is limited by the structural and clearance implications of a rigid body. Even if dwell times don't limit the interval between successive trams (say if stops had platform loops used alternately, though I'm not aware of any tram that does this), this is constrained by the safe stopping distance when a tram is following another one. So if each tram can hold fewer people, the capaicty goes down accordingly.

So what? I found out the hard way that double-deck TGVs aren't double-deck throughout. Why couldn't you have the front and rear tramcar sections (e.g. of 3) being level boarding/ fully accessible and the middle one being a double decker? And do you really think the extra weight of a double decker is such a constraint that it would jeopardise stopping distances? And you really think a double decker holds fewer people than a single? All of the UK operators of double-deck trams must have been deluded - and maybe again you should share your insight with the current bus operators!

I don't know Hong Kong, but there may be specific issues with roadspace that make double deck appropriate on the island itself, but the more recent Tuen Mun network on the mainland uses single-deck vehicles although I believe all are still rigid bodies.

Quite likely. I don't know either, but I would have though that with road space at a premium, going upwards is an obvious solution to capacity issues. Maybe the US double-stack container trains give us a hint.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My wife's late uncle who grew up in Manchester used to say that there was nothing to match the queue of double deck trams to clear the crowds coming out of Old Trafford.

When was this? Pre WW2, so a long time before the Metrolink?

 

[AndrewE]

When was this? Pre WW2, so a long time before the Metrolink?

Decades before Metrolink, but not necessarily pre-WW2. Stan was born 1928...

How well did Manchester trams survive the war?
(Wikipedia says "At its peak in 1928, the organisation carried 328 million passengers on 953 trams, via 46 routes, along 292 miles (470 km) of track." and "The final decision to completely abandon the tram system in favour of trolleybuses and motor buses was taken on 7 July 1937 but the onset of war delayed some of this." ) so, reading that, I guess he was either remembering childhood experiences or re-telling stories he had been brought up with.

 

[The exile]

Cornbrook to Deansgate Castlefield has up to 40 trams per hour in the full timetable (5 Eccles, 5 MediaCityUK, 5 Trafford Centre, 10 Altrincham, 10 East Didsbury and 5 Manchester Airport).
So any route would need at least 40 trains/trams per hour passing over, a service every 90 seconds.

If that's the case, then the original quote "one tram passing through every 30 seconds" is a bit of an exaggeration. Even if that's taken to mean "in either direction" that would still require 1 tram per minute in each direction, or 60 tph. Still going to be up there with the busiest, though. If Metros count - then Paris has got some very short headways on some lines - though I'm not sure how often they're exploited in full nowadays (and for how long)

 

[rangersac]

Swanston St in Melbourne is generally regarded as the busiest tram corridor in the world. Peak frequencies average a tram every 70 seconds which is approximately 51tph. See the very informative attached video.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Swanston St in Melbourne is generally regarded as the busiest tram corridor in the world. Peak frequencies average a tram every 70 seconds which is approximately 51tph. See the very informative attached video.

I'd still think Štěpánská to I. P. Pavlova in Prague's New Town would narrowly beat 51tph.

 

[AndrewE]

Swanston St in Melbourne is generally regarded as the busiest tram corridor in the world. Peak frequencies average a tram every 70 seconds which is approximately 51tph. See the very informative attached video.

Nice video, thanks for the link.
I noted the comment near the end (11 min 20?) that with the introduction of longer modern trams it is likely that the headways will increase and the title of busiest corridor will be lost...
Also what is that pecking bird on an illuminated sign around 11m 50? just a sculpture?

 

[rangersac]

Nice video, thanks for the link.
I noted the comment near the end (11 min 20?) that with the introduction of longer modern trams it is likely that the headways will increase and the title of busiest corridor will be lost...
Also what is that pecking bird on an illuminated sign around 11m 50? just a sculpture?

Yep, a digital art installation. That location is outside the National Gallery of Victoria

 

[The Pelican]

Swanston Street has just had the Melbourne Metro rail tunnel opened underneath it to try and take some of the pressure off, at least from Anzac station at the site of the old Domain Interchange. Sadly, Melbourne has never opened any tram subways, which might in principle allow slightly higher frequencies, by having grade seperated entrances and exits.

 

[LLivery]

I wonder how the Brussels Pre-Metro ranks in terms of pax numbers?

 

[fandroid]

There's a very slick operation after events at Old Trafford with passengers let onto the platform while an outgoing tram waits so that people are spread along ready to board quickly when the next tram arrives. Marshals organise the crowds and it's impressively well run. It's very efficient and must move a lot of people using double trams. Probably still not as good as lines of double-deck trams though ...

Dwell times at stops are the obvious problem with double deck trams and buses too. Articulated buses are the norm for extra bus capacity just about everywhere else in the world. Compare the crawl pace of the double deck buses on Manchester's Oxford Road corridor with anywhere on the same city's tram network.

 

[johncrossley]

If Metros count - then Paris has got some very short headways on some lines - though I'm not sure how often they're exploited in full nowadays (and for how long)

Line 1 of the Lille metro runs every 60-66 seconds at peak times.

 

[A S Leib]

If Metros count - then Paris has got some very short headways on some lines - though I'm not sure how often they're exploited in full nowadays (and for how long)

Line 1 of the Lille metro runs every 60-66 seconds at peak times.

Line A of the Rennes metro is planned to get to every 60 seconds at peak times in 2028 (currently every 80 seconds).

 

[Dr Hoo]

The Never-Stop-Railway at the Wembley Empire Exhibition in 1924 sustained an almost unimaginable frequency with 88 cars (I believe) and effectively always several creeping through any platform. Conceptually like a cabin lift on a loop, such as the one at Greenwich but far more frequent.

 

[AndrewE]

The Never-Stop-Railway at the Wembley Empire Exhibition in 1924 sustained an almost unimaginable frequency with 88 cars (I believe) and effectively always several creeping through any platform. Conceptually like a cabin lift on a loop, such as the one at Greenwich but far more frequent.

a bit like a Paternoster lift then - except that you can only ever board one "car" of them at a time!