ScotRail to introduce £10 minimum fare for those not buying before boarding

[chris53]

It only works if the person is believed every time. Which will be challenging when every habitual fare evader who boards at an unstaffed station cottons on and insists on claiming disability and paying by cash. Eventually a TE will make the wrong judgement call in a situation for which they are ill equipped.

On a separate note earlier today I checked the TVM at my local unstaffed station and the “promise to pay” isn’t available.

So what would a cash payer do in that scenario? and is it an error or deliberate that it isn't included?

 

[kkong]

I was on a ScotRail train last year when one of four youths - all heading to a football match on a Saturday and drinking beer - claimed to be a full-time volunteer.

This after having been informed that their Young Scot card did not entitle them to discounted rail travel at their age, unless they were a full-time volunteer.

Naturally, no paperwork was available to substantiate their claim.

I saw the conductor enter a note on their device, but otherwise no action taken in respect of the fare.

 

[mmh]

I was on a ScotRail train last year when one of four youths - all heading to a football match on a Saturday and drinking beer - claimed to be a full-time volunteer.

This after having been informed that their Young Scot card did not entitle them to discounted rail travel at their age, unless they were a full-time volunteer.

Naturally, no paperwork was available to substantiate their claim.

I saw the conductor enter a note on their device, but otherwise no action taken in respect of the fare.

That's just an inevitable consequence of politicians introducing pointless concessions without asking how they'll be implemented.

 

[Sirius]

So what would a cash payer do in that scenario? and is it an error or deliberate that it isn't included?

I assume it's a mistake since it's referenced in their material published in March. I've seen it queried on Twitter by someone else but no indication from the Scotrail social media team whether this is a mistake and/or currently being worked on.

 

[AlterEgo]

It only works if the person is believed every time. Which will be challenging when every habitual fare evader who boards at an unstaffed station cottons on and insists on claiming disability and paying by cash. Eventually a TE will make the wrong judgement call in a situation for which they are ill equipped.

Pardon me for being so blunt, but, so what? This is the case already on the network nationwide with relation to buying on board at an undiscounted rate anyway. I don't know what it has to do specifically with Scotrail's £10 minimum fare.

 

[Sirius]

Pardon me for being so blunt, but, so what? This is the case already on the network nationwide with relation to buying on board at an undiscounted rate anyway. I don't know what it has to do specifically with Scotrail's £10 minimum fare.

The difference in Scotland is it's not a TOC that will face the reputational risk for these scenarios going wrong. It's the Scottish Government itself. Especially if it can't produce either a legislative basis for the minimum fare or any impact assessments for the implementation of the policy.

Opposition parties will, after a period, inevitably FOI how many £10 minimum fares have been charged, how many have been appealed successfully and the reasons for this. This is a double edged sword where either the system is implemented too leniently, or too harshly, depending on the political persuasion of whoever asks.

 

[gizmo91]

So what would a cash payer do in that scenario? and is it an error or deliberate that it isn't included?

I did spot the Promise to Pay option on one of the TVM's in Queen Street yesterday while I was checking a price for something else. I'll get a picture next time. It was on the same screen where you click 'Pay Now', I think it was at the bottom of the screen.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2026 ==

Ended up going into Glasgow so had another look. It looks to be available on card only TVMs at both Queen Street and Central high level. See screenshots attached.

Although, went to Springburn and East Kilbride (both stations having card only TVMs) and the option wasn’t there. In EK though, the ticket office was open and now has barriers (although these were open). At Springburn, ticket office isn’t open on a Sunday.

Also printed off a promise to pay, noting it says a penalty fare will be charged if not paying in cash (assuming they have just taken the wording from other operators that do charge these).

 

[furlong]

"You will be required to make a FULL cash payment or you will be liable for a Penalty Fare."

So ScotRail asserts that its Minimum Fare is indeed a penalty that it is entitled to impose!
(Injunction, anyone?)

 

[318266]

I imagine this TVM update was not drafted nor came anywhere close to the internal ScotRail teams who will be vehement in their defence that it is in no way a Penalty Fare.

The look of the Promise to Pay voucher (?) appears to be quite different to any I've seen before. I do enjoy the technical details available on the ticket!

 

[kkong]

Has anyone asked to purchase a minimum fare single or return ticket at a ticket office yet?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2026 ==

"You will be required to make a FULL cash payment or you will be liable for a Penalty Fare."

So ScotRail asserts that its Minimum Fare is indeed a penalty that it is entitled to impose!
(Injunction, anyone?)

Clearly nothing more than £16.80 could or would be charged for this journey, given that the minimum fare is £10.

 

[najaB]

Has anyone asked to purchase a minimum fare single or return ticket at a ticket office yet?

Not yet, but I'll try to remember to take a wander by the station soon and ask.

 

[The exile]

Exactly this. The only time that a ticket examiner would escalate the situation is if the person both fails the "attitude test" and claims that their inability to pay their fare before boarding was due to a disability that the inspector doesn't find believable.

And of course “inaccessibility” could be for reasons other than the purchaser’s disability. Either way, it clearly has to be an admissible reason for an appeal - even if in the case of disability it should never get that far.

 

[Gagravarr]

On Saturday, I took a Scotrail train from Elgin towards Inverness, one of the ones that shuttle Inverness <-> Elgin.

On the platform, the train manager whilst changing ends made a loud "make sure you all have your tickets" announcement. Then made several PA announcements about the £10 minimum, especially pointing out that people going to Forres would be effectively overcharged if they didn't have a ticket, and encouraging them to buy one before we set off. Multiple very clear announcements, but no offer for people to come find the train manager to buy tickets before departure, which might've been more passenger friendly with the only (I think?) ticket machine on the other side of the footbridge.

I booked my ticket on the LNER app (the one I have installed) a few minutes before we got to the station, and it only offered ToD. Luckily there was no queue for the ticket machine and we came in past it. My friend used the Scotrail App, and was able to buy an e-ticket (or possibly m-ticket?). Luckily I'd noticed in time that I didn't get an e-ticket, and so was able to collect the ticket in time, but it overall feels not-quite-ideal to have tickets require ToD and not have ticket machines on every platform...

I didn't see this thread in time, so didn't think to check the ticket machine for Promise to Pay options, sorry!

 

[MadMac]

A picture appeared on one of the social media platforms in the past couple of days showing a poster publicising this at Carfin, where there is no means of purchasing a ticket before boarding.

 

[TUC]

Whilst recognising that some disabilities are not visible, it should not be underestimated how much significantly disabled people dislike those who pretend or exaggerate their disability. Significantly disabled people seek to be treated as equals and to live as ordinary a life as possible whilst the other group are using disability to obtain freebies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I booked my ticket on the LNER app (the one I have installed) a few minutes before we got to the station, and it only offered ToD. Luckily there was no queue for the ticket machine and we came in past it. My friend used the Scotrail App, and was able to buy an e-ticket (or possibly m-ticket?). Luckily I'd noticed in time that I didn't get an e-ticket, and so was able to collect the ticket in time, but it overall feels not-quite-ideal to have tickets require ToD and not have ticket machines on every platform...

I suspect this is because ScotRail, who like to live in the dark ages, only had the flow enabled for m-tickets, and the LNER app will not fulfil to m-ticket, so it goes to ToD if you try to buy one of those tickets on it. ScotRail would say that if you use their app you won't have a problem and it's LNER's fault for not supporting all fulfilment methods, I suppose.

 

[318266]

There is a new, albeit mildly confusing sign, for stations without ticket machines.

Image description: A photo of signs at Branchton station, showing in particular a sign headed by the ScotRail "BUY BEFORE YOU BOARD" logo, stating that:

"THERE ARE NO TICKET ISSUING FACILITIES AT THIS STATION

You may buy your ticket on the train if boarding at this station at no additional cost. You must buy your ticket before leaving the train or at your destination station.

You can buy tickets online using the ScotRail website or app.

Find out more at www.scotrail.co.uk/BBYB, speak to staff, or ask at a station Help Point."

 

[najaB]

There is a new, albeit mildly confusing sign, for stations without ticket machines.

I guess the "Buy before you Board" heading is a bit confusing if taken as an instruction, but I think it's meant to be a title.

 

[TUC]

There is a new, albeit mildly confusing sign, for stations without ticket machines.

Image description: A photo of signs at Branchton station, showing in particular a sign headed by the ScotRail "BUY BEFORE YOU BOARD" logo, stating that:

"THERE ARE NO TICKET ISSUING FACILITIES AT THIS STATION

You may buy your ticket on the train if boarding here at no additional cost. You must buy your ticket before leaving the train or at your destination station.

You can buy tickets online using the ScotRail website or app.

Find out more at www.scotrail.co.uk/BBYB, speak to staff, or ask at a station Help Point."

That doesn't even make sense in terms of sentence structure. ' You may buy your ticket on the train if boarding here at no additional cost.'

I think they mean ' You may buy your ticket on the train at no additional cost if boarding here.'

 

[AlterEgo]

That doesn't even make sense in terms of sentence structure. ' You may buy your ticket on the train if boarding here at no additional cost.'

I think they mean ' You may buy your ticket on the train at no additional cost if boarding here.'

The first does make sense but it needs some commas. The whole sign is poor though, amazing how the railway gets stuff like this wrong so often.

 

[mmh]

Opposition parties will, after a period, inevitably FOI how many £10 minimum fares have been charged, how many have been appealed successfully and the reasons for this.

They really won't. It's an uncontroversial policy with no political significance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"You will be required to make a FULL cash payment or you will be liable for a Penalty Fare."

So ScotRail asserts that its Minimum Fare is indeed a penalty that it is entitled to impose!
(Injunction, anyone?)

They probably just copied the format and wording from Northern who are the original TOC who did this.

 

[35B]

They really won't. It's an uncontroversial policy with no political significance.

I'm not convinced of that - as with the English penalty fares, I can see this bubbling up through MP or MSP case work, and leading to a challenge. Still less than probable.

 

[Sirius]

They really won't. It's an uncontroversial policy with no political significance.

The policy itself may be relatively uncontroversial, SNP competence (or lack thereof) is absolutely not.

An implementation unduly severe on certain groups would be attacked by the Greens.

An implementation unduly lenient would be attacked by the Conservatives.

An implementation that falls down as unlawful or discriminatory for any reason is fodder for the opposition.

“John Swinney can’t even run a railway never mind a country”. I can hear it now in Russell Findlay’s voice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2026 ==

Obtained a promise to pay today where the wording reads “liable for a minimum fare.”. Otherwise the wording is identical to that linked above.

 

[najaB]

Obtained a promise to pay today where the wording reads “liable for a minimum fare.”. Otherwise the wording is identical to that linked above.

Almost certainly coincidental, but I did message them to ask why the PtP obtained earlier in the thread had wording about a Penalty Fare.

 

[yorkie]

...but no offer for people to come find the train manager to buy tickets before departure, which might've been more passenger friendly with the only (I think?) ticket machine on the other side of the footbridge...

... it only offered ToD. Luckily there was no queue for the ticket machine and we came in past it. My friend used the Scotrail App, and was able to buy an e-ticket (or possibly m-ticket?). Luckily I'd noticed in time that I didn't get an e-ticket, ....

These sorts of nuances demonstrate why the following statement is not uncontroversial:

...It's an uncontroversial policy with no political significance.

I can guarantee that people are going to be charged punitively, under circumstances where it's not justificable. And it may only be a matter of time before people kick up a fuss, and the matter gets escalated, if it doesn't get quietly abandoned.

Also any staff who try to enforce this could end up putting themselves into situations of conflict; I wonder if a full risk assessment has been carried out, and if the full impacts have been considered. I suspect not...

 

[Wallsendmag]

I see that there's a new version of the NRCOT coming out to cover this

 

[styles]

I see that there's a new version of the NRCOT coming out to cover this

Do you have a link to the proposed changes? Would be interesting to read.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I have a copy but not a link

 

[styles]

I have a copy but not a link

Are you able to share a copy? Understand if you can't.