Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Even with upgraded batteries, I'm not convinced how useful they'd be since they'd still have a noticeably shorter range than the newer EVs and would probably still need to be limited to shorter boards or swapped out for another vehicle later on in the day.

That’s true. They could work well on the 13 and 60 if they won those. The 36 would probably only be useful during the peaks, but it would need to be boards that are away from town at that time - at the Gyle end.

 

[OmniCity999]

Before & during Covid, Lothian had enough of a surplus fleet which allowed them to have vehicles rotated for maintenance. In this current state, if they had midibuses in the fleet, theres no guarantee they wouldn't be drafted in to cover larger vehicles when required. For some time, at least since the Solo's, Lothian hasn't had any smaller service buses. Generally, you'd only buy smaller vehicles if you had the services for them - you don't want to be using a midibus for double deck routes for example.

Which is why it was questionable at the time why they bought the StreetAirs, particularly for service 1. But at that time, the electric vehicle movement was in its early stages and it was seen as a slow transition and long term trial.

Sending the StreetAirs back to Wright Bus was agreed as part of the GB Kite and future Electroliner orders. The hope is that they could have a full cosmetic rebuild to improve build quality. I believe it was also discussed to swap motors and batteries for the new generations, which we see in the GB Kites. I'm not 100% sure at this point what has been agreed on this front. Regardless, they will need new batteries as they've been sat for so long.

The thinking behind these processes is that as a company, they'd be able to tender for smaller demand routes and should this fail, they could be used on rural routes in East Lothian.

Ideal for the 13, 32, 60. So there are current use cases.

 

[KTR276]

Maybe a daft question,but could the StreetAirs not be converted or re-built into double deckers using the chassis/parts of the body?

 

[Lothianbus703]

Before & during Covid, Lothian had enough of a surplus fleet which allowed them to have vehicles rotated for maintenance. In this current state, if they had midibuses in the fleet, theres no guarantee they wouldn't be drafted in to cover larger vehicles when required. For some time, at least since the Solo's, Lothian hasn't had any smaller service buses. Generally, you'd only buy smaller vehicles if you had the services for them - you don't want to be using a midibus for double deck routes for example.

Which is why it was questionable at the time why they bought the StreetAirs, particularly for service 1. But at that time, the electric vehicle movement was in its early stages and it was seen as a slow transition and long term trial.

Sending the StreetAirs back to Wright Bus was agreed as part of the GB Kite and future Electroliner orders. The hope is that they could have a full cosmetic rebuild to improve build quality. I believe it was also discussed to swap motors and batteries for the new generations, which we see in the GB Kites. I'm not 100% sure at this point what has been agreed on this front. Regardless, they will need new batteries as they've been sat for so long.

The thinking behind these processes is that as a company, they'd be able to tender for smaller demand routes and should this fail, they could be used on rural routes in East Lothian.

Ideal for the 13, 32, 60. So there are current use cases.

Hopefully this does happen and it is very possible that they could be fitted with newer technology.
They wouldnt turn into Kites but would probably have enough range to be a useful vehicle that can put in a day's service on lots of routes.

 

[overthewater]

I take it we are expecting the next service changes on Sunday 6th September? is there any word if there any major improvements on the cards?

 

[computerSaysNo]

I take it we are expecting the next service changes on Sunday 6th September? is there any word if there any major improvements on the cards?

Why do you expect that date?

 

[LBObserver]

I drove past Longstone earlier and noted a white double decker in the yard with L plates either side of the destination screen. A closer look seemed to be 935. Is this to be a return to double deck learners or a one off? I think the last double deck learners were X reg Tridents.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Why do you expect that date?

Always usually a Sunday, plus with the sort of premature announcements on the new 37A and 39A one can expect that we could see other Lothian related changes.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Why do you expect that date?

It's routine from the last few years. Initially it was to align with universities restarting and the extra services being reinstated, but now these stay running over the summer and the date has just carried over.
Especially given the previous one was early in February, I reckon this one will indeed be on September 6th as overthewater suggests. Registration details should, if that is the case, appear in two weeks time.

 

[90019]

Maybe a daft question,but could the StreetAirs not be converted or re-built into double deckers using the chassis/parts of the body?

Even if possible - which I'm not sure it would be without huge amounts of work since they were designed as single decks - by the time you strip them down far enough to be useful, it'd be cheaper and easier to start from scratch.

 

[Lx008]

Is the below reflecting the current assumption of Lothian Orders:

20 B8RLE MCV Evoras
60 B8L 12.8m E400XLB
40 BZL / E400ev
20 streetdeck Electroliner

 

[GordonT]

is there any word if there any major improvements on the cards?

Or major mileage reductions to mitigate significantly increased fuel costs?

 

[JKP]

Or major mileage reductions to mitigate significantly increased fuel costs?

There are a number of under utilised buses especially later in the evenings that I’ve seen that I’m sure could be pruned either in length or frequency.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I wonder if Lothian Country have any growth planned, they appear to have a surplus of drivers as a lot of them have been driving the 36 at Central in recent days.
If not, it's at least good to see the driver situation is strong at the moment.

 

[Busman757]

I wonder if Lothian Country have any growth planned, they appear to have a surplus of drivers as a lot of them have been driving the 36 at Central in recent days.
If not, it's at least good to see the driver situation is strong at the moment.

The drivers you have seen on the 36 are drivers that have been there a few years and have now transferred over to Lothian City at Central garage, that are just awaiting new uniforms.

 

[scosutsut]

Is the below reflecting the current assumption of Lothian Orders:

20 B8RLE MCV Evoras
60 B8L 12.8m E400XLB
40 BZL / E400ev
20 streetdeck Electroliner

That's my understanding, yes.

Took a trip on one of recently delivered Kites (1e) yesterday, seemed very solid overall, it seemed to have an issue with either tyre scrub or steering lock whine on full lock and nitpicking the cab door open buzzer is obnoxiously loud (although not as awful as the bell noise on the BZLs that the poor drivers have to endure all day!)

Will be interesting to see if the various cobbled sections of the 36 will rattle them apart over time - a challenge for any vehicle of course.

 

[Grumpyscot]

7 and 33 were interworked at Ferniehill from May 2001 to March 2012 (before then it was the 31 and 33).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2026 ==


The 3 also went to Gilmerton. That area was served by SMT until the Musselburgh trams finished in 1954.

The 3 terminated at Moredun until about 1959. The termination point is now a pathway leading to Moredun Park Gardens

 

[DunsBus]

The 3 terminated at Moredun until about 1959. The termination point is now a pathway leading to Moredun Park Gardens

The 3 was extended to Gilmerton in August 1958 (source: Edinburgh's Transport - The Corporation Years by D.L.G. Hunter).

 

[KTR276]

Even if possible - which I'm not sure it would be without huge amounts of work since they were designed as single decks - by the time you strip them down far enough to be useful, it'd be cheaper and easier to start from scratch.

It was just a thought,I was reading about Bartons re-builds in 50s/60s and thinking how much waste there is in the bus industry when we're scrapping perfectly good buses after 10-15 years,when we could re-build/re-power them and get another decade out of them.

 

[NorthEastern]

It was just a thought,I was reading about Bartons re-builds in 50s/60s and thinking how much waste there is in the bus industry when we're scrapping perfectly good buses after 10-15 years,when we could re-build/re-power them and get another decade out of them.

I was wondering similarly, I saw an ex Lothian Plaxton President in a scrapyard somewhere (on video) and the interior and seats looked in good nick with I’m guessing a good few years left in them. So what actually happens to bus seats, stairs, bulkheads etc when they’re scrapped?

 

[Cesarcollie]

I was wondering similarly, I saw an ex Lothian Plaxton President in a scrapyard somewhere (on video) and the interior and seats looked in good nick with I’m guessing a good few years left in them. So what actually happens to bus seats, stairs, bulkheads etc when they’re scrapped?

They will generally go for scrap too. Some companies with similar buses remaining in service will salvage a few useful bits as spares (maybe seat cushions, cab switches, light fittings, blinds etc and possibly corner panels/bumpers if in good condition), but pretty much everything will be scrapped/disposed of. Good engines and gearboxes will probably also be removed if similar buses remain.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Am I right that the two Scania Higer Tourings are 9320 (YN26 VRR) and 9321 (YN26 VPP) like they are listed on buslistsontheweb?

 

[overthewater]

It was just a thought,I was reading about Bartons re-builds in 50s/60s and thinking how much waste there is in the bus industry when we're scrapping perfectly good buses after 10-15 years,when we could re-build/re-power them and get another decade out of them.

Your jumped a bit as Grey-green Converted 10? coaches into double decker's in early 90s for London contracts. Also Strathtay also rebodied coaches into single decker buses twice in 1992 and 2002? Also didn't Lothian Reengine old Leyland nationals in 2001?

With the service changes, the date Sunday 6th September follow the same patten over the last few years, I would be very surprised if we have to wait to the end of September. On the front of Lothian country will they do anything to combat Ember?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

With the service changes, the date Sunday 6th September follow the same patten over the last few years, I would be very surprised if we have to wait to the end of September. On the front of Lothian country will they do anything to combat Ember?

Unless Lothian Country plan to run into the Airport or run the X40 via Ratho, I highly doubt it that much, they would be better off improving within West Lothian themselves.

 

[overthewater]

Unless Lothian Country plan to run into the Airport or run the X40 via Ratho, I highly doubt it that much, they would be better off improving within West Lothian themselves.

It's more to do with Broxburn route, Ember now has the best option on that corridor, Stuart coaches has the best Option on the Fauldhouse corridor.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It's more to do with Broxburn route, Ember now has the best option on that corridor, Stuart coaches has the best Option on the Fauldhouse corridor.

Honestly what else could they do with Broxburn? Is the 72 popular enough to justify a half an hour frequency? the X18 is the only dominant city service, and in terms of links, Broxburn has both the Edinburgh, Bathgate and Livingston service!

The only pull I can think is that Ember have late/overnight services running through from Livingston to Broxburn, but I can't imagine those would be busy, unless we see a N72, and ticket prices aren't that much cheaper either..

 

[overthewater]

The Broxburn route used to be justify 4ph to Livingston. Route 72 is dreadful slow, maybe if Lothian hadn't chased away the passengers maybe they would be more. I would just bring in 75 follow the same route as E19 to Broxburn then up to Winchburgh: that can be done in 30mins.

 

[Lothian285]

Am I right that the two Scania Higer Tourings are 9320 (YN26 VRR) and 9321 (YN26 VPP) like they are listed on buslistsontheweb?

They are 9321 and 9322.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The Broxburn route used to be justify 4ph to Livingston. Route 72 is dreadful slow, maybe if Lothian hadn't chased away the passengers maybe they would be more. I would just bring in 75 follow the same route as E19 to Broxburn then up to Winchburgh: that can be done in 30mins.

The only problem with that is unless the 72 was scrapped, curtailed (to Broxburn) or back down to hourly, this would probably be a route that has no super high demand, but then again I could be wrong on that front..

Saying that, maybe a 75 to somewhere like Queensferry wouldn't be a bad idea, cut the 72 back and then fill the gap with the new 75.

 

[DunsBus]

Your jumped a bit as Grey-green Converted 10? coaches into double decker's in early 90s for London contracts. Also Strathtay also rebodied coaches into single decker buses twice in 1992 and 2002? Also didn't Lothian Reengine old Leyland nationals in 2001?

The second-hand Nationals Lothian bought in 2001 had already been re-engined by their previous owners.

Yhe Strathtay Leyland Tiger rebodies were done as the original bodies were shot. The Grey-Green rebuilds and rebodies, I remember, were on shortened Volvo B10M coach chassis which resulted in the rear wheels being further back than normal.
Remember that back in 1992 there was a recession on and the bottom had fallen out of the full-size bus market; unless you were either LRT or Stagecoach, new buses were totally out of the question and you had to make do with what you had. Hence the Strathtay rebodies and Grey-Green rebuilds.