Manchester Metrolink: how could it be improved?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Speculative Forum is well and truly deserving of a dedicated motto....."Do not ask for realism, as a refusal often offends"....

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Speculative Forum is well and truly deserving of a dedicated motto....."Do not ask for realism, as a refusal often offends"....

I don't think there's anything unrealistic about any of the suggestions in this thread. Some are even actually planned.

 

[The Mercian]

Has anyone mentioned the orbital yet?

Altrincham - Stockport - Ashton - Oldham - Rochdale - Bury - Bolton. How you’d get back from Bolton to Alty is tricky but hey this is speculative.

Build the Airport Western approach to free up Ashley to Stockport.
Convert the pointless parliamentary service through Reddish/Denton to tram and divert after Denton on the spur up to Ashton.
Getting out of Ashton would be problematic as the old alignment to Oldham is built on so probably some street running before utilising the old alignment up to Oldham Mumps. Oldham to Rochdale exists.
Rochdale to Bury I think exists but does it all belong to the East Lancs?
Bury to Bolton would need some street running as the alignment whilst there in places has been built on quite extensively.

 

[Topological]

Has anyone mentioned the orbital yet?

Altrincham - Stockport - Ashton - Oldham - Rochdale - Bury - Bolton. How you’d get back from Bolton to Alty is tricky but hey this is speculative.

Build the Airport Western approach to free up Ashley to Stockport.
Convert the pointless parliamentary service through Reddish/Denton to tram and divert after Denton on the spur up to Ashton.
Getting out of Ashton would be problematic as the old alignment to Oldham is built on so probably some street running before utilising the old alignment up to Oldham Mumps. Oldham to Rochdale exists.
Rochdale to Bury I think exists but does it all belong to the East Lancs?
Bury to Bolton would need some street running as the alignment whilst there in places has been built on quite extensively.

Yes, mentioned a few times. I pointed out that the Rochdale - Bury - Bolton part is the furthest through the consideration phases, especially the Eastern end to Heywood. Rochdale to Oldham already exists.

The challenge with the orbital will be getting the use of old rail alignments right. Too much and although you will speed things up, you will reduce the number of potential customers.

The Western side has the Trafford Centre as a potential traffic generator. The evidence on buses is mixed, but then buses are slow and get caught in traffic around the Trafford Centre itself.

 

[daodao]

The Western side has the Trafford Centre as a potential traffic generator. The evidence on buses is mixed, but then buses are slow and get caught in traffic around the Trafford Centre itself.

Current bus services between the Trafford Centre and suburban destinations in Trafford and elsewhere are currently every 20 minutes at best (route 23) and mostly half-hourly, indicating that the demand isn't there for an orbital Metrolink service via the Trafford Centre. The only frequent bus services to it are to/from Manchester city centre: route 100 (every 15 minutes) via Eccles/Salford and route 250 (every 12 minutes) via Old Trafford/All Saints. There is already of course a Metrolink service as well from Deansgate to the Trafford Centre.

 

[Topological]

Current bus services between the Trafford Centre and suburban destinations in Trafford and elsewhere are currently every 20 minutes at best (route 23) and mostly half-hourly, indicating that the demand isn't there for an orbital Metrolink service via the Trafford Centre. The only frequent bus services to it are to/from Manchester city centre: route 100 (every 15 minutes) via Eccles/Salford and route 250 (every 12 minutes) via Old Trafford/All Saints. There is already of course a Metrolink service as well from Deansgate to the Trafford Centre.

I thought they had done a bit more with the 23.

However, a quick check would show a lot more services from The Trafford Centre bus station, including this late at night.

There seems to be a bus 30 that I did not remember, but when I was at the TC more often there was the X50. That 30 still seems to be running every 10 minutes even this late.

 

[Statto]

I thought they had done a bit more with the 23.

However, a quick check would show a lot more services from The Trafford Centre bus station, including this late at night.

There seems to be a bus 30 that I did not remember, but when I was at the TC more often there was the X50. That 30 still seems to be running every 10 minutes even this late.

If you're on about the 30 Trafford Centre - Manchester, it was the X50 that was renumbered to 30 a couple of months ago.

 

[Topological]

If you're on about the 30 Trafford Centre - Manchester, it was the X50 that was renumbered to 30 a couple of months ago.

Thank you.

Although I am in Manchester a lot, it is mostly just Piccadilly, The University, and possibly the City Centre.

 

[lowe1409]

The challenge with the orbital will be getting the use of old rail alignments right. Too much and although you will speed things up, you will reduce the number of potential customers.

There's no saying though that new developments can't be planned around the old alignments. A lot of criticism I see with a lot of new developments is poor transport access leading to a fear of road congestion (rightfully or wrongfully). Planning new developments around a new light rail corridor would be a massive solution for it. Would have to be designed well to connect with employment as well as quick journey times into the centre still be it easy changes at places such as bury/Bolton/Altrincham/Stockport which already see great service or building entirely new lines along new corridors.

I feel like business plans for public transport tend to rely too heavily upon existing development and not enough on future developments. Was it the metropolitan that found massive success in real estate development before post-war planning rules made it more difficult?

 

[edwin_m]

I feel like business plans for public transport tend to rely too heavily upon existing development and not enough on future developments. Was it the metropolitan that found massive success in real estate development before post-war planning rules made it more difficult?

Cardiff is trying to do that with the North West Corridor, Barking Riverside plus some DLR enhancements are driven by new housing, and Nottingham wants to extend the tram into the new Fairham development. I know of a couple of new housing developments that plan to build new stops on existing Metrolink routes but I'm not aware of anything that would trigger a new Metrolink route.

 

[sprunt]

There's no saying though that new developments can't be planned around the old alignments. A lot of criticism I see with a lot of new developments is poor transport access leading to a fear of road congestion (rightfully or wrongfully). Planning new developments around a new light rail corridor would be a massive solution for it. Would have to be designed well to connect with employment as well as quick journey times into the centre still be it easy changes at places such as bury/Bolton/Altrincham/Stockport which already see great service or building entirely new lines along new corridors.

I feel like business plans for public transport tend to rely too heavily upon existing development and not enough on future developments. Was it the metropolitan that found massive success in real estate development before post-war planning rules made it more difficult?

There are areas around the old Bury-Bolton alignment that look absolutely ripe for housing, although looking at the satellite view I've got no idea how you'd thread a new line through there given the development since it closed - I'm struggling to see any space for a non-street running line between Bury and Bolron. Also, the housing would probably be be politically impossible - see the fury at the current plans to build on a tiny fraction of the green land around Bury.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It will be interesting in years to come to see how many of these thread-mentioned speculative aspirations ever actually take place.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Apr 2026 ==

There are areas around the old Bury-Bolton alignment that look absolutely ripe for housing.

Will that be social housing or that of a mixed development?

 

[sprunt]

Will that be social housing or that of a mixed development?

Oh, social housing. Vast new council estates the size of Wythenshawe if I've got anything to do with it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, social housing. Vast new council estates the size of Wythenshawe if I've got anything to do with it.

Mixed tenure is much better. If you build large Council estates you end up with places which are full of social problems.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Mixed tenure is much better. If you build large Council estates you end up with places which are full of social problems.

There are parts of Wythenshawe that are now enclaves of privately owned housing that were erected in recent years.

 

[Russel]

It's been mentioned on here before, but I used the Metrolink last weekend for the first time in a while and it really struck me how unfriendly it is to anyone that doesn't already know the system very well, maps and wayfinding is poor and the lines really need naming, or at least the line colour displaying on the destination display so you have a better idea of which tram you need.

TFGM Should spend some time down in London and look at how TFL do things.

 

[The exile]

It's been mentioned on here before, but I used the Metrolink last weekend for the first time in a while and it really struck me how unfriendly it is to anyone that doesn't already know the system very well, maps and wayfinding is poor and the lines really need naming, or at least the line colour displaying on the destination display so you have a better idea of which tram you need.

TFGM Should spend some time down in London and look at how TFL do things.

I really don’t understand what Metrolink have got against route numbers.

 

[Russel]

I really don’t understand what Metrolink have got against route numbers.

Indeed, anything would be an improvement on the current situation.

Standing at somewhere like Picadilly Gardens or St Peters Square, it's not even clear which platform is for where, look at TFL with the top part of the Circle Line, each station serves 3 different lines, but each platform is well signed so it's clear what direction and destinations are served by it, it's worlds apart from the Metrolink "work it out for yourself" approach.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

It's been mentioned on here before, but I used the Metrolink last weekend for the first time in a while and it really struck me how unfriendly it is to anyone that doesn't already know the system very well, maps and wayfinding is poor and the lines really need naming, or at least the line colour displaying on the destination display so you have a better idea of which tram you need.

TFGM Should spend some time down in London and look at how TFL do things.

Yes there's certainly room for improvement.

I'm a local and I don't think twice about where I'm going, but I can see how (for example) someone getting off a bus at St Peters Square could have issues locating the right platform(s) to be waiting at.

London do it very well, but at the same time in London you can't see the platform in most of Zone 1, so navigation is necessary to guide you through the tunnels, particularly at complex interchanges.

TfL has some of the most recognisable branding in the world and for good reason.

 

[Russel]

Yes there's certainly room for improvement.

I'm a local and I don't think twice about where I'm going, but I can see how (for example) someone getting off a bus at St Peters Square could have issues locating the right platform(s) to be waiting at.

London do it very well, but at the same time in London you can't see the platform in most of Zone 1, so navigation is necessary to guide you through the tunnels, particularly at complex interchanges.

TfL has some of the most recognisable branding in the world and for good reason.

There is no reason TFGM couldn't have the same though, looking at the bigger picture signage is cheap and can make a big difference.

Even just more prominent "This Platform for Bury" or similar signage would be a welcome addition.

 

[Howardh]

Even as a local, it's difficult to know even if at Victoria if your tram's for Piccadilly or not. I like the idea of naming lines, even if coloured, maybe the trams could be coloured as per line, rather than the custard colour it is now?

 

[VT 390]

Even as a local, it's difficult to know even if at Victoria if your tram's for Piccadilly or not. I like the idea of naming lines, even if coloured, maybe the trams could be coloured as per line, rather than the custard colour it is now?

I would support the idea of coloured line names as it builds off the existing network map rather than starting a entirely new design but I do not think it would be practical to have trams fully in line colours as it would likely lead to confusion if/when trams in one colour were used on a different route.
They could have this approach but simply on the front display as it is on the South Yorkshire Supertram which clearly displays the line colour on the front display of the tram.

 

[Howardh]

I would support the idea of coloured line names as it builds off the existing network map rather than starting a entirely new design but I do not think it would be practical to have trams fully in line colours as it would likely lead to confusion if/when trams in one colour were used on a different route.
They could have this approach but simply on the front display as it is on the South Yorkshire Supertram which clearly displays the line colour on the front display of the tram.

Would be more helpful if displays at stops were like train station displays by listing all calling points, rather than destination!

 

[VT 390]

Would be more helpful if displays at stops were like train station displays by listing all calling points, rather than destination!

That would take a while to scroll through all stops but via points could be useful.
If proper line identification was used I think this would be enough as it would fine on networks like the London Underground even where a single line has multiple routes (e.g. District line) and on other tram networks with multiple like the Supertram.

 

[mmh]

For the trams themselves it doesn't need to be complicated. Electronic displays and audio saying e.g. "Purple line to Blah" with an optional "via Blah" at the end would be enough.

In an ideal world there would be electronic maps that show where you are along the route and where you're going, but we seem to be singularly rubbish at such stuff in this country.

 

[Howardh]

For the trams themselves it doesn't need to be complicated. Electronic displays and audio saying e.g. "Purple line to Blah" with an optional "via Blah" at the end would be enough.

In an ideal world there would be electronic maps that show where you are along the route and where you're going, but we seem to be singularly rubbish at such stuff in this country.

Names of lines...famous Mancunians?

 

[HSTEd]

Either a colour system or simply assigning a block of bus route numbers to the tram would seem the best bet.

Otherwise I agree that the system has grown too large and sprawling for no line identification system at all.

 

[mmh]

Either a colour system or simply assigning a block of bus route numbers to the tram would seem the best bet.

Otherwise I agree that the system has grown too large and sprawling for no line identification system at all.

Well it already has a colour system, it's just not used anywhere other than maps so is pointless.

I don't think simply numbering routes would help. When you're stood at St Peter's Square and have a line of "3", "7", "2" approaching you, how is that better than what happens now?

Croydon Tramlink, a far simpler tram network, gave up on route numbers years ago because they were thought to be confusing. As mentioned earlier in the thread, TFL while by no means perfect are probably better at this stuff than anywhere else.

 

[HSTEd]

Well it already has a colour system, it's just not used anywhere other than maps so is pointless.

I don't think simply numbering routes would help. When you're stood at St Peter's Square and have a line of "3", "7", "2" approaching you, how is that better than what happens now?

Well the map would presumably have the line numbers on it, so it would tell you the trains destination and clearly show the route necessary for it to get there.

A number is, in many places, used as a stand in for a name.

 

[Russel]

I don't think simply numbering routes would help. When you're stood at St Peter's Square and have a line of "3", "7", "2" approaching you, how is that better than what happens now?

It's worked on buses for the past 100 years.