Tickets sold by Signallers

[WesternLancer]

Falmer lever frame and was taken out of use and it was closed as a block post on 30 March 1985.

Thanks. Glad I was vaguely right. In my teenage years.
I recall being sorry not to see it in action any more but pleased to see the staff keeping it looking good.

IIRC there was always a nice display of pot plants inside the windows which could be enjoyed from the platform. The glazing was always sparkling and I wondered how you got glass quite that clean!

The modification to the building made when the stadium opened were done unsympathetically and wrecked much of its architectural charm in my view. It could have been done much better for crumbs of money off the table from the stadium budget I’m sure…
I digress.

 

[izvor]

I’m assuming the signaller would never sell tickets at the adjacent booking office window but maybe I’m wrong to assume that.

I'd always assumed they did, but again may be wrong. Probably depended on the location, but most of the stations quoted (at least on the SR) were quiet rural ones. Was there a grade of signaller-booking clerk, with enhanced pay? Would make sense as an economy measure. Certainly my memory is there was just the one man at Isfield and Warnham 50-60 years ago.

The small signal cabin at Amberley was sited on the down platform until the Arun Valley resignalling of around 5 years ago, but with 4tph in each direction I doubt it involved selling tickets as well!

 

[WesternLancer]

I'd always assumed they did, but again may be wrong. Probably depended on the location, but most of the stations quoted (at least on the SR) were quiet rural ones. Was there a grade of signaller-booking clerk, with enhanced pay? Would make sense as an economy measure. Certainly my memory is there was just the one man at Isfield and Warnham 50-60 years ago.

The small signal cabin at Amberley was sited on the down platform until the Arun Valley resignalling of around 5 years ago, but with 4tph in each direction I doubt it involved selling tickets as well!

Thanks. I’m thinking at Falmer both the footfall from university and poly plus level of train service might mean that it wasn’t feasible for signalling staff to attend to ticket related tasks. By the 70s at least.
Up to early 60s when it was fairly rural that might have been a different matter.

 

[Gloster]

I'd always assumed they did, but again may be wrong. Probably depended on the location, but most of the stations quoted (at least on the SR) were quiet rural ones. Was there a grade of signaller-booking clerk, with enhanced pay? Would make sense as an economy measure. Certainly my memory is there was just the one man at Isfield and Warnham 50-60 years ago.

The small signal cabin at Amberley was sited on the down platform until the Arun Valley resignalling of around 5 years ago, but with 4tph in each direction I doubt it involved selling tickets as well!

They were signalman who were paid a supplement for selling tickets and it was understood that the ticket duties were secondary to signalling ones. I also have a feeling that they only sold a limited variety of local tickets: if you went into Falmer trying to arrange a for a weekend return to Kinbrace they would probably tell you go to Lewes or Brighton.

There were also some boxes where tickets were sold from the signalbox door; at Milborne Port I think that this was modified to allow the upper portion to swing back and a small shelf was fitted to the top of lower section. I have a feeling that there may have been one or two more like this beyond Exeter.

 

[thesignalman]

There were also some boxes where tickets were sold from the signalbox door; at Milborne Port I think that this was modified to allow the upper portion to swing back and a small shelf was fitted to the top of lower section. I have a feeling that there may have been one or two more like this beyond Exeter.

Plenty like that on the Southern, much nearer London too. Waddon Marsh and Beddington Lane come instantly to mind, for a start.

It is probably safe to say that the Southern Railways policy of economies only led to new signal boxes on platforms where it wasn't convenient to sell from the existing ones.

John

 

[matchmaker]

IIRC, at locations like Taynuilt, the token instruments were in the station office (which also sold tickets), whilst the points and signals were operated by lever frames at each end of the platform.

Returning to Southern territory, the signalman at Beddington Lane sold tickets from the box. An unexpected treat in suburban Greater London which survived until the gates were replaced with automatic barriers. All very different now with Tramlink of course.

Although at most locations on the West Highland and Callander and Oban lines the token instruments were in the station building, most locations had the frame in a signal box on the platform. A few locations (Callander, Connel, Killin Junction, Balquhidder) had two signal boxes. The ground frame setup was more a Highland Railway idea - I think because the loops were longer.

 

[Rescars]

Although at most locations on the West Highland and Callander and Oban lines the token instruments were in the station building, most locations had the frame in a signal box on the platform. A few locations (Callander, Connel, Killin Junction, Balquhidder) had two signal boxes. The ground frame setup was more a Highland Railway idea - I think because the loops were longer.

Short loops in Scotland were not reserved for locations north of the Central Belt. Several loops in Galloway has to be significantly lengthened to make Cairnryan Military Port a credible alternative to Liverpool or Glasgow.

 

[thesignalman]

Although at most locations on the West Highland and Callander and Oban lines the token instruments were in the station building, most locations had the frame in a signal box on the platform. A few locations (Callander, Connel, Killin Junction, Balquhidder) had two signal boxes. The ground frame setup was more a Highland Railway idea - I think because the loops were longer.

Not necessarily on the platform at all - just placed where convenient as any signal box would be. Taynuilt was a single box off the platform - no ground frames there.

The Highland method was completely different - the twin box arrangement didn't really class as ground frames as they were designed as full signal boxes (two were necessary as the length of the loops was outside the permitted distance for mechanical point operation) and were originally intended to be individually staffed - found to be ridiculously expensive. The instruments, though, were in the Station Master's office and he could maintain control from a two-lever ground frame in his office, slotting the starting signals in each direction.

John

 

[izvor]

if you went into Falmer trying to arrange a for a weekend return to Kinbrace they would probably tell you go to Lewes or Brighton.

...or, more likely, a place deep underground that was somewhat warmer.

So, here's a puzzle that may be related: Withyham. In the Southen Handbook for 1965/66 (a large glossy paperback handed out free to commuters) the ticket office opening hours are given as Weekdays 0550-0050, Sundays 0730-2334. Withyham was a very isolated station, serving a few cottages and not much more. It had a level crossing but no passing loop on the single line. Why on earth did the ticket office stay open so late, around 2 hours after the last train had passed?

For comparison, closing times for weekdays: Hartfield (next station, busier): 1200. East Grinstead (nearest large town): 2130. East Croydon: (probably busiest station outside London termnals): 2400.

I can only assume that the box had to stay open that late for the LC, and that it also served as the ticket office so that was when the shift finished. I never went there when it was open, and can't find anything in a search of books and online. Any comments?

 

[Ashley Hill]

I think Amberley was another example as I believe that the the block instruments were in the Booking Office.

Didn’t Amberley also operate a post office too?

 

[thesignalman]

I can only assume that the box had to stay open that late for the LC, and that it also served as the ticket office so that was when the shift finished. I never went there when it was open, and can't find anything in a search of books and online. Any comments?

It is possible that the times were aligned with the official box opening hours for simplicity of pay arrangements.

Didn’t Amberley also operate a post office too?

I can't speak for Amberley, but Martin Mill certainly did. As did several of the locations on the Highland line.

John

 

[Gloster]

So, here's a puzzle that may be related: Withyham. In the Southen Handbook for 1965/66 (a large glossy paperback handed out free to commuters) the ticket office opening hours are given as Weekdays 0550-0050, Sundays 0730-2334. Withyham was a very isolated station, serving a few cottages and not much more. It had a level crossing but no passing loop on the single line. Why on earth did the ticket office stay open so late, around 2 hours after the last train had passed?

For comparison, closing times for weekdays: Hartfield (next station, busier): 1200. East Grinstead (nearest large town): 2130. East Croydon: (probably busiest station outside London termnals): 2400.

I can only assume that the box had to stay open that late for the LC, and that it also served as the ticket office so that was when the shift finished. I never went there when it was open, and can't find anything in a search of books and online. Any comments?

Personally, I would suspect a mistake when compiling the the Handbook. Somebody put in the hours of duty of the staff, which were based on when the line was open to traffic, rather than the opening hours for ticket sales.

 

[The exile]

Generally employment contracts forbid you from carrying on any unrelated business during working hours. It's a bit messy with signallers because at smaller/quieter boxes, they don't have fixed breaks and are instead expected to take breaks as and when the train service allows. But probably still something NR would frown upon if they found out.

Strictly speaking, if you put the eggs out with an honesty box before your shift starts and collect the rest / result after it finishes you’re not carrying on any business during working hours (after all, they count be outside your home). If there is a contractual problem it might arise from the stand (or whatever) being on railway land.

 

[mailbyrail]

Amberley and Martin Mill stations were both post offices, as were many others on the Southern and across Scotland.

Interestingly, the post office on Amberley Station was known as Houghton Bridge Post Office whereas it was Martin Mill Station Post Office.

Station post offices were notable by their absence across the Great Western although there was a scattering of station post offices across the rest of the country, including Northern Ireland. Again, some were known as XYZ Station Post Office whereas other offices did not include Station in their official names giving no clue to their railway connection.
Confusingly, some post offices which were not on railway stations were called ABC Station Post Office to distinguish them from another office in the village. Such an example was Annbank Station Post Office which was close to the station but not on railway premises and was known by that name long after the railway station closed

 

[thesignalman]

Strictly speaking, if you put the eggs out with an honesty box before your shift starts and collect the rest / result after it finishes you’re not carrying on any business during working hours (after all, they count be outside your home). If there is a contractual problem it might arise from the stand (or whatever) being on railway land.

I wouldn't worry about jobs "on the side". Management would turn a blind eye or even avail themselves of the services available. There were two signal boxes in the area I worked where you could have watches repaired and have your hair cut. As long as it didn't interfere with one's proper duties, it was not perceived to be a problem.

John

 

[fwsmVor]

That would make complete sense. Until 2008 waiting for a train there was like going back fifty years just the birdsong and the bells and a BIG

What's a BIG?

 

[thesignalman]

What's a BIG?

A BIG bird known as an EMU

British Rail Class 421 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

John

 

[Bodiam]

I think that many of these were originally just a lever frame on the platform near the booking office and surrounded by metal railings, but later on they put up small huts around the levers to allow the signalmen to work in peace.

There appear to have been a total of ten SR locations with the lever frame on the platform (Source: SRS Signal Box Register). Breamore and Sheffield Park were two.

I believe the railed lever frame on the platform at Sheffield Park was the result of a Southern Railway economy campaign, replacing separate North and South cabins.

 

[Gloster]

I believe the railed lever frame on the platform at Sheffield Park was the result of a Southern Railway economy campaign, replacing separate North and South cabins.

The two 1882 boxes, Sheffield Park North and South, were closed in December 1934 and replaced by the frame on the platform, staffing of which could be combined with that of the Booking Office as the Block Instruments were moved into it. It appears that previously the South had been a Block Post, but the North never was.

 

[RPI]

Feniton used to be one of these stations until around 2010 when Basingstoke took control of the line, the ticket office was subsequently kept and is now staffed by SWR staff.

 

[Gloster]

Feniton used to be one of these stations until around 2010 when Basingstoke took control of the line, the ticket office was subsequently kept and is now staffed by SWR staff.

Feniton was a bit of an oddity as it closed, as Sidmouth Junction, in 1967, but a Crossing Keeper was retained for the level-crossing. Four years later the station was reopened and the Crossing Keeper was given the additional job of selling tickets.

 

[RPI]

Feniton was a bit of an oddity as it closed, as Sidmouth Junction, in 1967, but a Crossing Keeper was retained for the level-crossing. Four years later the station was reopened and the Crossing Keeper was given the additional job of selling tickets.

It's even more of a (nice) oddity that it remains staffed now, albeit for a short period, despite the control of the level crossing having moved to Basingstoke

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Having recently had sight of a Red Star Parcels map which shows 7 such stations on the West Higland lines designated as 'Red Star' (as well as the four stations which did have booking ofice staff) reminds me that not only did these signallers sell tickets, but in many cases, certainly on the rural lines in Scotland, they also dealt with Parcels traffic, and quite possibly also Left Luggage.

 

[Ashley Hill]

In his book “Light Relief” Jack Warland describes his experiences working on the Withered Arm as a relief signalman. Many stations were one man bands where the signalman done everything. Sell tickets, dealing with goods traffic, sheeting wagons and livestock etc, everything you’d expect at remote country stations. And then they would signal trains.