Ember: Electric coach service

[Megafuss]

You may wish to do some research into the various regulations governing the registration of local bus services. The services they have been operating since 2020 have largely been quite different from the E19, which is very much a ‘normal’ local bus service with numerous bus stops relatively close to each other.

It doesn't matter. It's registered as limited stop and it's not a traditional bus by virtue of how they accept custom.

As with any other registered limited stop bus, the E19 doesn't have to stop at every registered stop, but it must pick up there if customers want to board.

The way Ember know if somebody wants to board is the booking. It's very clear on all publicity that customers need to pre-book.

A traditional bus company would know if somebody wants to board by the punter sticking thier arm out.

That's the difference.

 

[davp]

Is a limited stop service expected to follow a route, or is that nothing to do with the regulations/regulator?

I wonder if they are required to avoid arriving at the airport too early. There have been some extended waits >10 mins at the A8 Ingliston stop (if the tracking data are correct). They seem to be running very tight to their 10 minute pre-booking window sometimes, which I guess is not surprising if you avoid Ratho or Broxburn/Uphall.

I'm not sure I'm following their plan to get people to know about the E19. They are avoiding areas with reasonable footfall with their diversions. I live 10 mins from one of their stops and haven't seen anything advertised locally or through the door. The only drops into my social media feeds have been from West Lothian Council talking about it. It's great to have a new service but I would like to see them making a bit more of a fuss about it locally.

 

[Spsf3232]

Is a limited stop service expected to follow a route, or is that nothing to do with the regulations/regulator?

I wonder if they are required to avoid arriving at the airport too early. There have been some extended waits >10 mins at the A8 Ingliston stop (if the tracking data are correct). They seem to be running very tight to their 10 minute pre-booking window sometimes, which I guess is not surprising if you avoid Ratho or Broxburn/Uphall.

I'm not sure I'm following their plan to get people to know about the E19. They are avoiding areas with reasonable footfall with their diversions. I live 10 mins from one of their stops and haven't seen anything advertised locally or through the door. The only drops into my social media feeds have been from West Lothian Council talking about it. It's great to have a new service but I would like to see them making a bit more of a fuss about it locally.

They can only run 10 minutes early and no more with the 10 minute booking window that's why sometimes there can be an extended wait. The airport may have other services due to use the same stance and they also may charge more for longer wait periods and this is why they will be holding back going in too early.

The lack of advertising hasn't effected any other Ember route, it will just take slightly longer to build up custom.

You should also remember that this is simply a depot run so they can claim fuel duty rebate for dead runs and this service isn't the main aim for these vehicles.

You can see on the booking system that Livingston to Airport shows an alternative stop at the airport than the booking as it's it's supposed to stop at Stop G to head onwards to another destination but instead stops at E for the return journey to Livingston temporary

 

[Stan Drews]

They can only run 10 minutes early and no more with the 10 minute booking window that's why sometimes there can be an extended wait. The airport may have other services due to use the same stance and they also may charge more for longer wait periods and this is why they will be holding back going in too early.

The lack of advertising hasn't effected any other Ember route, it will just take slightly longer to build up custom.

You should also remember that this is simply a depot run so they can claim fuel duty rebate for dead runs and this service isn't the main aim for these vehicles.

You can see on the booking system that Livingston to Airport shows an alternative stop at the airport than the booking as it's it's supposed to stop at Stop G to head onwards to another destination but instead stops at E for the return journey to Livingston temporary

You do know that Fuel Duty Rebate hasn’t existed for many years? If you’re involved with claiming the current Network Support Grant in your Transport Manager role, once again I’d suggest you do some reading!

 

[Deerfold]

But sometimes alternative routes can be registered - e.g. the X68 in London

Alternative routes can, yes.

The X68 had 3 variations last time I looked. None of them missed out any registered stops.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2026 ==

It doesn't matter. It's registered as limited stop and it's not a traditional bus by virtue of how they accept custom.

As with any other registered limited stop bus, the E19 doesn't have to stop at every registered stop, but it must pick up there if customers want to board.

The way Ember know if somebody wants to board is the booking. It's very clear on all publicity that customers need to pre-book.

A traditional bus company would know if somebody wants to board by the punter sticking thier arm out.

That's the difference.

Linked stop services don't have to stop at every stop on a route. But they do specify which stops they will use.

 

[route101]

Its almost like a hail and ride but in pre booked form. I am going to give the route a try today. Once we know what other routes will operate out of Livingston, it may make more sense with the bigger picture.

 

[Spsf3232]

You do know that Fuel Duty Rebate hasn’t existed for many years? If you’re involved with claiming the current Network Support Grant in your Transport Manager role, once again I’d suggest you do some reading!

I know exactly what it's called but referred to it as what most people know it as

 

[stevieinselby]

I can't help feeling that running between Livingston and the Airport on the basis of pre-booked travel only may be misreading the market. A journey time of 45 minutes at a 20-minute frequency is the sort of service people expect to be able to turn up and get on. I get that that has been they're business model elsewhere, but when you're looking at a service that is usually hourly at best and a journey that might be a couple of hours or more, people are going to be much more willing to commit to a specific journey beforehand than the kind of journey that everywhere else in the country is just a regular bus that you wave down and get on and pay.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Alternative routes can, yes.

The X68 had 3 variations last time I looked. None of them missed out any registered stops.

But sometimes alternative routes can be registered - e.g. the X68 in London

London works under different rules to the provinces (as these days does Manchester) as services are registered with and regulated by TfL in this aspect not the Office of the Traffic Commissioner or the National Licensing Office.

You can't, at least according to the Licensing Office people I talked to over a decade ago when it last came up for us, register multiple route variations that a service may take "in case of traffic" or other ad-hoc reasonings, any route variation needs to be explicitly tied to a specific journey variation that is done at all times or specific circumstances - we do have a route that traverses a road very prone to flooding and we have been able to put an "in case of flooding on x road" variation, and an "in case of flooding on x road & y road" option as well but that is still a clearly defined deviation for a clearly defined and communicated reason (I'm assuming Scotland is still running under the same rules for bus service registrations as England for this).

That said, if Ember have registered all intermediate points as pre-book only (something more common on semi-demand responsive low frequency rural many-to-one bus services) then you don't have to serve points that haven't been pre-booked and you can register multiple routing options to allow for each possible combination of caling points so coaches may be running very different routings on each journey.

 

[stevieinselby]

You can't, at least according to the Licensing Office people I talked to over a decade ago when it last came up for us, register multiple route variations that a service may take "in case of traffic" or other ad-hoc reasonings, any route variation needs to be explicitly tied to a specific journey variation that is done at all times or specific circumstances - we do have a route that traverses a road very prone to flooding and we have been able to put an "in case of flooding on x road" variation, and an "in case of flooding on x road & y road" option as well but that is still a clearly defined deviation for a clearly defined and communicated reason

I'm not disputing that that's true, but what's the reasoning behind it? If you're serving all stops registered along the route, why shouldn't you be allowed to vary the specific roads used to reach them? It seems like a perfectly reasonable option, especially on a limited stop service, to give the best possible chance of running a reliable and punctual service, rather than inflicting avoidable delays and cancellations on passengers.

I'm sure a few years ago when Transdev Coastliner were running additional buses between York and Leeds on CityZap, one of the big selling points was that the drivers had a sat nav and so would switch between the A64 and the M1/A63 (or possibly other options too) depending on the traffic to always give passengers the fastest route. They ran like that for 4 years before setting the route via M1/A63 in stone with a stop at Cross Green. So I don't know how that squared with the Traffic Commissioner rules.

 

[MotCO]

I'm not disputing that that's true, but what's the reasoning behind it? If you're serving all stops registered along the route, why shouldn't you be allowed to vary the specific roads used to reach them? It seems like a perfectly reasonable option, especially on a limited stop service, to give the best possible chance of running a reliable and punctual service, rather than inflicting avoidable delays and cancellations on passengers.

I'm sure a few years ago when Transdev Coastliner were running additional buses between York and Leeds on CityZap, one of the big selling points was that the drivers had a sat nav and so would switch between the A64 and the M1/A63 (or possibly other options too) depending on the traffic to always give passengers the fastest route. They ran like that for 4 years before setting the route via M1/A63 in stone with a stop at Cross Green. So I don't know how that squared with the Traffic Commissioner rules.

And how do long term diversions due to roadworks work? I live near the Godstone sinkhole, and three routes (plus school routes) have been on diversion for over 15 months. And if it's ok for roadworks, what about road closures due to accidents? At what point do you need to re-register a route for a diversion?

 

[paravostok]

I can't help feeling that running between Livingston and the Airport on the basis of pre-booked travel only may be misreading the market. A journey time of 45 minutes at a 20-minute frequency is the sort of service people expect to be able to turn up and get on. I get that that has been they're business model elsewhere, but when you're looking at a service that is usually hourly at best and a journey that might be a couple of hours or more, people are going to be much more willing to commit to a specific journey beforehand than the kind of journey that everywhere else in the country is just a regular bus that you wave down and get on and pay.

Agreed, it seems like the demand was/is there but not for a pre-booked coach, although one upside is that you can bring a bike/lots of luggage

 

[stevieinselby]

And how do long term diversions due to roadworks work? I live near the Godstone sinkhole, and three routes (plus school routes) have been on diversion for over 15 months. And if it's ok for roadworks, what about road closures due to accidents? At what point do you need to re-register a route for a diversion?

I think if a road is "temporarily" closed (even if long-term) then it is acceptable to use any practicable alternative. When the closure is unplanned, such as because of an accident, things can be very ad hoc, and it is common to see buses on the same route taking different alternatives, sometimes depending on whether that driver knows a particular way through or maybe control trying to get some of them through as quickly as possible while ensuring that the odd one or two serve some less well-used intermediate stops. But that's when there is a road closure (or in some cases, rumours of a road closure), not just heavy traffic.

The diversions at Godstone are officially registered, with the timetable including the additional stops on Oxted Road and doubling back on Eastbourne Road. Where a substantial diversion is required on a long-term basis, the bus company will want to register it so that they allow extra running time rather than having buses always being late.

 

[CMBS]

SG25 HZH appears to have currently broken down or crashed at Ardlui on the E16 to Oban
SG25 HYY on the E15 to Oban has been seemingly diverted down to Ardlui to assist with the situation. Both vehicles are running over an hour late.

 

[route101]

I used the E19 today from Edinburgh Airport. One other passenger got on at the airport and got off at East Calder. Three people got on at East Calder, driver mentioned it would be cheaper to book online, I am not sure if they paid onboard or what. The driver remarked this was was the first service that had any passengers.

 

[markymark2000]

If it wasn't perfectly legal then Ember wouldn't have been operating successfully since 2020.

The stops are registered as pre booked only and this is why they can bypass when no one is booked. It's also why they won't stop for passengers hailing them when no one is booked and will simply drive by

If the service is registered as pre book only though 10 minute on advance, then surely they shouldn't be picking anyone up at stops and selling tickets (which has been explained does happen). Your service is either pre booked only or it's a limited stop express bus.

You can't say 'we are registering the service as pre booked only but if someone books then we will stop, pick them up and sell tickets for other non booked passengers but if the same not booked passenger flags the bus down we will drive past them'.

And how do long term diversions due to roadworks work? I live near the Godstone sinkhole, and three routes (plus school routes) have been on diversion for over 15 months. And if it's ok for roadworks, what about road closures due to accidents? At what point do you need to re-register a route for a diversion?

I believe the stance is/was for diversions which are in place for longer than the registration period, a non chargeable registration should be made.

You can't, at least according to the Licensing Office people I talked to over a decade ago when it last came up for us, register multiple route variations that a service may take "in case of traffic" or other ad-hoc reasonings, any route variation needs to be explicitly tied to a specific journey variation that is done at all times or specific circumstances

Did your ad hoc route/plan involve missing/changes to stops or changes to times? In London in all instances where I've seen alternative routes, the stops are the same, it's just between stops that the route varies. And there's not many instances where that would be possible with local bus.

 

[Deerfold]

I used the E19 today from Edinburgh Airport. One other passenger got on at the airport and got off at East Calder. Three people got on at East Calder, driver mentioned it would be cheaper to book online, I am not sure if they paid onboard or what. The driver remarked this was was the first service that had any passengers.

I'd be surprised if many people know about it.

If it's not showing up on Traveline or Google maps then only those with an interest in public transport or who regularly visit the Ember website are likely to know it exists.

 

[route101]

I'd be surprised if many people know about it.

If it's not showing up on Traveline or Google maps then only those with an interest in public transport or who regularly visit the Ember website are likely to know it exists.

There was an Ember sticker at Livingston Shopping Centre. The stop at Edinburgh Airport is Ember branded for all the Ember services calling there. Its shared with the McGills Dundee Flyer.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

I'm not disputing that that's true, but what's the reasoning behind it? If you're serving all stops registered along the route, why shouldn't you be allowed to vary the specific roads used to reach them? It seems like a perfectly reasonable option, especially on a limited stop service, to give the best possible chance of running a reliable and punctual service, rather than inflicting avoidable delays and cancellations on passengers.

I'm sure a few years ago when Transdev Coastliner were running additional buses between York and Leeds on CityZap, one of the big selling points was that the drivers had a sat nav and so would switch between the A64 and the M1/A63 (or possibly other options too) depending on the traffic to always give passengers the fastest route. They ran like that for 4 years before setting the route via M1/A63 in stone with a stop at Cross Green. So I don't know how that squared with the Traffic Commissioner rules.

I can't say I ever understood the position, the underlying reasoning is about ensuring operators are running what they register and aren't switching things ad-hoc in the face of competition but why I got an adverse response when I tried to do so where it didn't affect any stops (it was what route we took out of a bus station as the normal route occasionally snarled up) I never got to the bottom of. I have always had the feeling that my contacts at the Licensing Office lacked flexibility compared to some others (a view agreed with by a friend at another operator who deals with the same officer and also felt by a colleague who deals with a different traffic area and who has different responses to things) so they may have been able to access a loop hole via a more flexible case officer than I could.

It may simply be that some operators didn't think it mattered and it would never get noticed and unless someone complains about it, which they probably wouldn't if no stops are missed, then it probably wouldn't. Arriva Derby got into trouble simply because drivers turned right into the bus station in the evening (as their next trip started in the bus station) rather than left to their advertised terminus (about 150m apart) after one person complained. However, in my experience, I would also say that the Licensing Office has really tightened up on registrations in the last couple of years so loop holes that may have worked in some places in the past may not do so anymore (I have certainly had things that I have been doing for 20 years without comment suddenly become unacceptable and when queried about this sudden change being told that this has always been the case).

And how do long term diversions due to roadworks work? I live near the Godstone sinkhole, and three routes (plus school routes) have been on diversion for over 15 months. And if it's ok for roadworks, what about road closures due to accidents? At what point do you need to re-register a route for a diversion?

There was a short phase whereby they asked operators to provide details of all planned diversions but that didn't last long before they requested operators to stop as it was overloading them. If the closure is longer than a couple of months the operator should be registering the diversion route, I have one where the closure is over the summer holidays that I probably won't officially re-register and one that will last into October that I have done so. I tend to do so with the wording that gives us flexibility to not have to re-submit the registration at the end of the closure as well and it also gives us flexibility if the works are delayed in starting or finishing (by tying a specific route variation to the specified closure. For shorter duration diversions operators should be keeping a record somewhere of things like this so when the DVSA officers try to check on a service and don't find it doing what is expected then it can be explained easily and quickly. Diversions due to roadworks and other road closures are something of a grey area, I don't think there is any clear guidance on what should be notified and how (at least that I have seen or told about and I have been doing this for over 20 years).

 

[route101]

I can't help feeling that running between Livingston and the Airport on the basis of pre-booked travel only may be misreading the market. A journey time of 45 minutes at a 20-minute frequency is the sort of service people expect to be able to turn up and get on. I get that that has been they're business model elsewhere, but when you're looking at a service that is usually hourly at best and a journey that might be a couple of hours or more, people are going to be much more willing to commit to a specific journey beforehand than the kind of journey that everywhere else in the country is just a regular bus that you wave down and get on and pay.

I could be wrong but three people got on at East Calder and I overheard the driver saying book online as its cheaper.

We have become a more pre book society I feel. Personally when service is frequent I prefer turn up and go.

 

[LiviCrazy]

I do feel this E19 has the real opportunity to be a success, but they really need to advertise it, widely. Livingston is a large town and West Lothian is densely populated, but our airport services have never been particularly popular, but that’s because they’ve either been like the 555/777 and 600 which tried to serve everywhere and took forever, or like the Citylink 902. The latter on paper is a great service, but because it is coming through from Glasgow and only hourly if you are trying to catch a flight it’s not a reliable option. As a result most people drive or take the train and tram.

This service on the other hand, frequent and 24hrs, if marketed enough could be enough to get people to take the risk of using the coach.

 

[SoloSR334022]

My brother caught the E19 today from The Centre without a booking, he told me there was no else waiting to board and it was just a case of telling the driver where he wanted off and scanning his bus pass. I wonder if the drivers are being told to stop for unbooked passengers until popularity picks up?

 

[Spsf3232]

My brother caught the E19 today from The Centre without a booking, he told me there was no else waiting to board and it was just a case of telling the driver where he wanted off and scanning his bus pass. I wonder if the drivers are being told to stop for unbooked passengers until popularity picks up?

All routes can take walk on passengers at the first stop however with the E19 they have removed the 10 minute booking window for the Centre so you can book and walk on there right up until the last minute.

The only change from walking on Vs booking online for fare paying passengers is you will pay almost double the normal fare than offered on ember.to

 

[jb66]

Strange that deer park isnt a stop for E19

 

[SoloSR334022]

Strange that deer park isnt a stop for E19

I thought the same about Dechmont Roundabout.

 

[christopherrfc]

The E20 Glasgow to Edinburgh airport is officially starting on the 9th of September

Bus registration details
Registration numberPM2025892/20
Licence NumberPM2025892
Variation number
StatusNew
Service number.E20
Service typeLimited Stop
Start pointEdinburgh Airport
Finish pointGlasgow Buchanan Bus Station
ViaLivingston, Harthill, Chapelhall
Date received15 Jul 2026
Effective date09 Sep 2026
End date
Supported by subsidies?No
Local authorities covered by route
TAOs covered by route
Registration history
Reg No.Var No.StatusApplication typeDate receivedDate effectiveEnd dateAction
PM2025892/200NewManual15/07/202609/09/2026
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[AndrewTaylor95]

The E20 Glasgow to Edinburgh airport is officially starting on the 9th of September

Bus registration details
Registration numberPM2025892/20
Licence NumberPM2025892
Variation number
StatusNew
Service number.E20
Service typeLimited Stop
Start pointEdinburgh Airport
Finish pointGlasgow Buchanan Bus Station
ViaLivingston, Harthill, Chapelhall
Date received15 Jul 2026
Effective date09 Sep 2026
End date
Supported by subsidies?No
Local authorities covered by route
TAOs covered by route
Registration history
Reg No.Var No.StatusApplication typeDate receivedDate effectiveEnd dateAction
PM2025892/200NewManual15/07/202609/09/2026
Back to top
Back to search

The E19 must have been a separate service then, There's no chance they have that running with fresh air for that length of time, Can't be making much money

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The E19 must have been a separate service then, There's no chance they have that running with fresh air for that length of time, Can't be making much money

Probably needed some sort of work for drivers to do until they had enough on the payroll to run the E20

 

[Spsf3232]

The E19 must have been a separate service then, There's no chance they have that running with fresh air for that length of time, Can't be making much money

E19 is the depot journey for this service, it's simply a bonus that it's registered for passengers nothing more.

 

[paravostok]

E19 is the depot journey for this service, it's simply a bonus that it's registered for passengers nothing more.

So much like the E10/12?