Does the UK have a "premier" main line?

[Sorcerer]

In light of a discussion emerging in a previous thread, I thought it would be worth it's own discussion. Do you think the British railway network has a "premier" main line, as in one that's the most prestigious or the flagship trunk route in the UK? I think just because of the amount of trunk routes it's hard to definitively give it to one, but I'd say while there is a strong historical case for the East Coast Main Line, I think that in the modern age the West Coast Main Line would have the strongest claim to such a title.

The line connects London (the capital) with Birmingham (arguably the second city), Manchester (economic powerhouse of the north), and Glasgow (largest city in Scotland) along with industrial heartlands in-between. The East Coast Main Line does have Leeds which is another major northern city, and shares a WCML connection with Edinburgh while being the primary trunk route between the Scottish and English capitals. It also had some of the UK's most prestigious steam locomotives like Flying Scotsman and Mallard.

The hardest part about trying to determine this is that we can't solidly define what it means to be a "premier" main line, especially not in Britain which has numerous iconic routes including the Great Western. I think in future it'll probably be a lot easier since it will be hard to argue against HS2 being granted that title. High-speed rail lines do tend to become the flagship routes of railway networks despite being up a minority of the total track mileage.

 

[coppercapped]

The London and North Western Railway styled itself as ‘The Premier Line’, partly out of arrogance and partly because one of its constituents was the London and Birmingham Railway which was arguably the first long distance railway in the world.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

If I were to put them in order, just based on how they are in my head, I’d go with

1. West Coast
2. East Coast
3. Great Western
4. Joint place CrossCountry and Midland
5. In no particular order, Transpennine, Southwestern, Brighton, Great Eastern
6. Any other “mainline” (depends how one defines it)

Not quite sure where I’d put HS1, but it should be on the list somewhere.

 

[zwk500]

You can make an argument for 4 lines.

East Coast Mainline - historically highest speeds, connects London to Edinburgh (Capital of 2nd largest nation) North East and Yorkshire.
West Coast Mainline - busiest line, connects London to Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, and Glasgow. Now equal speed to ECML.
Great Western Main Line - built to very high standard so has had long history of high speed running, connects London to Bristol and Cardiff (capital)
HS1 - only new-build high speed line, GB's international connection and the link to the continent (including 3 capitals)

Hs2 will likely take the title when it opens.

 

[Russel]

I'd like to agree with the ECML and WCML suggestions, but the frequency in which they both fall over would contradict the suggestion of them being 'premier'.

 

[Sorcerer]

If I were to put them in order, just based on how they are in my head, I’d go with

1. West Coast
2. East Coast
3. Great Western
4. Joint place CrossCountry and Midland
5. In no particular order, Transpennine, Southwestern, Brighton, Great Eastern
6. Any other “mainline” (depends how one defines it)

Not quite sure where I’d put HS1, but it should be on the list somewhere.

Interesting you mention HS1 because I actually forgot about it when making the claim that high-speed lines tend to become premier routes. I think it might be something of an anomaly in that case because it was built more the purpose of international traffic for Eurostar rather than premium intercity passenger services.

As for CrossCountry, I'd argue it's not really a main line because a good chunk of the network uses the existing main lines and rarely if ever has a dedicated trunk route. I'd argue TransPennine qualifies more because it's at least got a proper trunk route from Liverpool/Manchester to Leeds/York.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Hs2 will likely take the title when it opens.

Although if it's only Birmingham-Euston can that really be called a main line when it's a 3 stop (Old Oak, Airport and Curzon St) line, it's more of a high speed shuttle than a main line.
Until HS2 reaches Manchester it pretty much is part of the WCML given it has to use it to get beyond the Midlands.


In regards to the thread as a whole, only one line is so well used and so busy a High Speed line is being built to free up capacity and it's the WCML.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If I were to put them in order, just based on how they are in my head, I’d go with

1. West Coast
2. East Coast
3. Great Western

These would be my top 3 too.

 

[Sorcerer]

Although if it's only Birmingham-Euston can that really be called a main line when it's a 3 stop (Old Oak, Airport and Curzon St) line, it's more of a high speed shuttle than a main line.
Until HS2 reaches Manchester it pretty much is part of the WCML given it has to use it to get beyond the Midlands.

That's an interesting question because traditional main lines are mixed use while high-speed lines are usually intercity passenger trains only. That said I think HS2 even with Phase 1 could still be considered a main line by some stretch, and definitely the premier one at that because intercity trains are flagships of any national railway fleet. Most Deutsche Bahn, SNCF, Renfe and Trenitalia services aren't ICE, TGV, AVE or Frecciarossa, but they are the presitigious premier ones.

 

[Andyh82]

If you think about the one that gets the most media attention, it’s definitely the west coast mainline.

Links London to England’s 2nd and 3rd biggest cities, lots of the media are based in Manchester, politicians are always banging on about Avanti West Coast when they want to criticise the railways, whenever there is a media story about the railways, the reporter always goes and stands outside Euston.

East Coast mainline would be second

 

[NXEA!]

ECML is the premier line for me, both historically and now. It links the capitals of England and Scotland, is largely sustained 125mph running the whole way and has the more prestigious and illustrious history and image. The WCML has only caught up in terms of speed after the WCRM - after HST introduction on the ECML there was a gap of over 20 years until the WCML finally started getting regular, majority 125 mph services (not counting the odd Virgin HST turn to Manchester).

 

[waveyswirley]

I'm definitely team ECML (and I live in Liverpool so I'm not biased!). It has a consistent historical pedigree that the WCML doesn't quite match. I'm thinking of the press releases LNER did about re-timing their "Flying Scotsman" service to depart Edinburgh at 10:00 because it was a historic departure time

 

[The exile]

These would be my top 3 too.

I would reverse the first two, personally, based on the fact that virtually everything IC-ish on the WCML other than the Glasgows leaves it to terminate, whereas the ECML has far more “pure” ECML trains. I know that sounds suspiciously like being branch-ist, but in my eyes it raises the significance of the actual main line. Not to mention the fact that the ECML has a worthy London terminus, not a concrete-filled hole in the ground.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The WCML carries far more freight than any others, though much of that originates at south-eastern ports (using the GEML, NLL, SWML).
Once HS2 opens, the WCML system will absorb it as a second (passenger) route to London.
The GWML has grown rapidly since the Heathrow branch opened, and now the Elizabeth line, added to its native Mendips minerals traffic.
HS1 would qualify if it had significant freight traffic.

 

[Adam Williams]

In terms of good value fares and sensible ticketing, it's undoubtedly the WCML that is "premier".

Things like the OHLE for the ECML have been done on the cheap as well, which doesn't help with reliability.

The scenery (particularly in the Lakes) you get on a Pendo is significantly better as well.

 

[The exile]

The WCML carries far more freight than any others, though much of that originates at south-eastern ports (using the GEML, NLL, SWML).
Once HS2 opens, the WCML system will absorb it as a second (passenger) route to London.
The GWML has grown rapidly since the Heathrow branch opened, and now the Elizabeth line, added to its native Mendips minerals traffic.
HS1 would qualify if it had significant freight traffic.

To me “premier” is not the same as “ most heavily trafficked” or even “most important” - it has as much to to with aura or status. However, it’s a bit like all Rev Awdry’s engines arguing about London stations when one of them (can’t remember which) is about to get a run to London.

 

[Class83]

ECML: It has been the flagship line for a century, from Flying Scotsman, through Mallard, Deltics. For genuine long distance passengers there are 1.1Million between Kings Cross and Edinburgh. On board service is in my experience pitched at a slightly higher level.

WCML will have higher overall usage, but fewer long distance passengers Euston to Glasgow is only 370k passengers. The Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool Services are somewhere between Intercity and long distance express commuter.

 

[zwk500]

To me “premier” is not the same as “ most heavily trafficked” or even “most important” - it has as much to to with aura or status. However, it’s a bit like all Rev Awdry’s engines arguing about London stations when one of them (can’t remember which) is about to get a run to London.

I would say that the ECML has a 'glamour' aura, WCML has a 'workhorse' aura. Which one you pick as the "premier" probably depends on how you view those auras.

In the London example, wasn't the disagreement more down to each charachter having worked a different railway and therefore only knew 'their' London station, rather than appraising them together?

 

[Narrowgauge725]

Should be ECML but it now fails so often it is not reliable, also new timetable has messed it up for many of us

 

[D1537]

In terms of good value fares and sensible ticketing, it's undoubtedly the WCML that is "premier".

Outside peak times and certain "premier" journeys like London to Edinburgh (Lumo apart), I've generally found ECML prices to be cheaper than WCML ones, especially certain flows like London-North East and Yorkshire-Scotland. First class fares are significantly cheaper than Avanti as well.

 

[The exile]

In the London example, wasn't the disagreement more down to each charachter having worked a different railway and therefore only knew 'their' London station, rather than appraising them together?

Oh yes, it was. I was really just looking for another fairly baseless argument! And the fact that “London’s St Pancras” seems very appropriate since with all respect, the last time the Midland might have laid claim would have been back when they were selling themselves on passenger comfort in the 1890s.

 

[Sorcerer]

However, it’s a bit like all Rev Awdry’s engines arguing about London stations when one of them (can’t remember which) is about to get a run to London.

That is what I expect this debate to ultimately come down to, only instead of debating which London station is correct we end up debating which main line is the most worthy of a "premier" title that we can't so easily define.

(Also it was Gordon who was about to get a run into London in the book. He argued it was King's Cross, Duck argued it was Paddington, while an Other Railway engine argued it was Euston. In the end Gordon ended up at St. Pancras).

I would say that the ECML has a 'glamour' aura, WCML has a 'workhorse' aura. Which one you pick as the "premier" probably depends on how you view those auras.

I think this is a fair point. While the WCML was running loco-hauled 86/87s the ECML was running 91s with Mark 4 coaches at higher speeds. It's only really during the mid-2000s and 2010s that the WCML had the newer express stock in the form of the Pendolino; today the ECML has the newer Azuma fleet. I think your point about the glamour and workhorse aura is spot on.

 

[quantinghome]

The scenery (particularly in the Lakes) you get on a Pendo is significantly better as well.

I would say that the ECML has a 'glamour' aura, WCML has a 'workhorse' aura. Which one you pick as the "premier" probably depends on how you view those auras.

The ECML is a racehorse galloping along the Anglo-Scottish border cliffs with the sun glittering majestically over the azure-blue North Sea.
The WCML is a carthorse trudging grimly up the gradient through the Lune Gap with the rain battering the grizzled grey Howgill Fells.

 

[Gareth1990]

Can’t exactly call the WCML premier seeing as it’s the second day in a row the service has collapsed…

 

[Nicholas43]

London to Edinburgh via Durham has very annoying tickets, but some wonderful views. London to Glasgow via Shap also has annoying tickets, and trains with horrible windows. London to Channel Tunnel has distressing tickets, no views, and much misery at a hideous shopping mall falsely trading as a railway station. London to Penzance via Bristol was and is God's Wonderful Railway.

 

[Western Sunset]

The Midland was "The Best Way". I rest my case...

 

[Adam Williams]

First class fares are significantly cheaper than Avanti as well.

I've never gotten an £11.10 first class Advance up to Edinburgh for four hours on LNER. Avanti, on the other hand...

 

[Dr Hoo]

Given that “premier” means “first in rank” what about the Elizabeth Line (also nicely named after a Head of State)?

It might even have more journeys than any of the other candidates.

 

[The exile]

(Also it was Gordon who was about to get a run into London in the book. He argued it was King's Cross, Duck argued it was Paddington, while an Other Railway engine argued it was Euston. In the end Gordon ended up at St. Pancras).

Thank you - that’s saved me a hour or two tonight!

 

[GraphitProjekt]

I would reverse the first two, personally, based on the fact that virtually everything IC-ish on the WCML other than the Glasgows leaves it to terminate, whereas the ECML has far more “pure” ECML trains. I know that sounds suspiciously like being branch-ist, but in my eyes it raises the significance of the actual main line. Not to mention the fact that the ECML has a worthy London terminus, not a concrete-filled hole in the ground.

To me “premier” is not the same as “ most heavily trafficked” or even “most important” - it has as much to to with aura or status.

I see this sort of the other way around. That the WCML connects so many large cities and is (as other's have said) a bit of a workhorse shuffling large volumes of passengers and goods, to me, gives it a more presitgious aura than the pomp and fanfare of the ECML. I see the branching mainlines of the WCML to be add to that acclaim, it's a vital artery that supports other busy routes that just focus on one city. In this regard, ECML really just has the Leeds and so in terms of top tier national cities, the ECML has Leeds, Newcastle and Edinburgh. And on its way spends a lot of time speeding through some rather sparse areas of East Mids/Lincolnshire whereas the WCML has a pretty extensive laundry list of important industrial towns as far as about Preston on top of the 4 large conurbations. Those branches are also extensive enough to give the WCML an entire alternate electrified route between Rugby and Preston, and if you can go off wires, almost the whole route north of Rugby to Glasgow can be replicated on secondary lines. There are a lot fewer backup options for ECML and the only electric one just takes you to Stevenage (TRUP will bring in an actually decent option of course).

In terms of searching for "Aura", I think the fact the WCML was modernised earlier than any other route gives it prestige in my eyes. And because of that it's gone through a few iterations of renewal over the years creating quite an interesting jumble of engineering styles. I've always found the approach from Watford Jnc to be quite impressive, with the Watford DC making up 6 tracks for about 17 miles and the domineering freight/parcels/maintenance facilities around Wembley. My bias is probably that I almost never get a chance to use the WCML, so when I do it feels quite special and there's lots of interesting things to see out the window.