PSTN/2g switch off effect on the railways?

[81A]

• Virgin Media O2 has announced it will be switching off its 2G network starting in Summer 2029.
• By focusing on newer services, the operator will be able to redeploy spectrum to more efficient, reliable and faster 4G and 5G networks.
• Move builds on successful 3G switch off, which O2 completed at the end of 2025.
• Customers will be supported to upgrade if required, with the operator committed to carrying out a series of trials to ensure a smooth transition.

Virgin Media O2 has announced that it will start to switch off 2G services in Summer 2029 as part of its ongoing Mobile Transformation Plan.

With o2 having announced their 2g (second generation mobile network) switch off will start in summer 2029 (source, the reason this is significant is that o2 were the only network left without a precise timescale for the switch off) and the Openreach PSTN (public switched telephone network, basically analogue landlines) switch off looming (31 January 2027-source), I was wondering what effect they will have on the railways.

Are any ticket machines/smartcard readers/help points/ticket office terminals/reservation systems/other infrastructure still relying on 2g (including GSM, GPRS, EDGE) or the PSTN? And if so are they upgradable? Or will they need replacing? Thanks in advance for any info (this seems like the sort of thing the railway could be caught out by)…

 

[mavsk]

There are various workstreams underway that are planning for it and have been for the last year or two - there are still some items of on-train kit that still use 2G, some of which don't yet have solutions. It's actually the removal of 3G that's caused the most pain so far.

 

[81A]

It's actually the removal of 3G that's caused the most pain so far.

Interesting… I would have thought most 3G kit could drop to 2G (where 3G is gone-almost everywhere but there is still a bit left on o2)? Or is the issue the far lower speed/capacity of 2G not being enough to support everything?

 

[sor]

GPRS/EDGE doesn't offer a meaningfully useful amount of bandwidth for most of those use cases. The 3G shutdowns (now complete across all networks) would have been more of a problem, and I'd hope anything installed in the last 10-15 years was at least 4G capable. Help points might be an outlier as those would presumably just make a phone call.

As I said in the anachronisms thread in the General Discussion forum, the 2027 PSTN closure date only affects Openreach services. I don't know who supplies to the railway but any lines provided by other providers using their own exchange equipment (eg PXC/TalkTalk Wholesale) would not be affected.

BT (sic, not Openreach) are also providing a stopgap service where a subset of existing PSTN lines will be moved to new equipment in the exchange, but will look and feel like they do now. ADSL (sometimes called "copper broadband" or "standard broadband") services across all providers are unaffected. All exchange based copper services will be subject to a future deadline, probably in the 2030s, when Openreach wants to start closing the exchange buildings themselves.

Wouldn't NR themselves be responsible for a lot of this anyway? I guess in the most remote areas it might have made sense to just get a BT line put in.

 

[zwk500]

GSM-R is 2G, but AIUI from previous discussions on the forums the railway has it's own entirely separate network (no idea who operates it), so any shutdown of the public 2G network would not affect it.

GSM-R is lined up to be replaced by FRMCS (Future Railway Mobile Communications System) https://uic.org/rail-system/telecoms-signalling/frmcs, which is 5G based but I think will be more forwards-compatible than previous railway radio systems.

Designed 20+ years ago by UIC and completely border-crossing interoperable, GSM-R, which is a 2G+ based system, is deployed on more than 130,000 kilometres of track in Europe (with 90,000 activated On Board Cab Radios), and some 210,000 kilometres worldwide.

The Future Radio Mobile Communication System (FRMCS) is the Railways’ response to two elements of strategic importance for the future of the railways:

First – the fast-coming GSM-R obsolescence, which is a European (and Global) level risk for Railways’ ERTMS continuity. End of support for GSM-R is expected around 2035.

Second – it is also a significant opportunity to enable and improve the Railways Digitalisation, and therefore the need to transmit, receive and use increasing volumes of data, which is at the very heart of sustainable transport.

These considerations led UIC to launch the studies for a successor to GSM-R, pertinently named Future Rail Mobile Communications System (FRMCS), and to put in place a solid organisation capable of building the FRMCS specifications, and also to monitor and be directly involved in the relevant activities related to FRMCS introduction.

The 2026 Network Statement suggests FRMCS is planned to replace GSM-R in CP8 (2029-34), ahead of the anticipated end of support for GSM-R in 2035

The FTNx transmission network has been built and designed to replace the FTN (Fixed Transmission Network) network over a period of time and to deliver additional capacity, capability and improved service offerings via next-generation COTS technology and enabling the foundations of a Digital Railway. Expansion of the FTNx access layer is required to enable the migration from FTN ahead of the FRMCS roll out in CP8 (2029-2034)

 

[81A]

The 3G shutdowns (now complete across all networks)

Not on o2 (despite what they tell you)! I connected to o2 HSPA in a Tesco last week… And some comments on this article suggest it is still live in Canary Wharf, Shrewsbury, Cwmbran and others…

 

[sor]

Not on o2 (despite what they tell you)! I connected to o2 HSPA in a Tesco last week… And some comments on this article suggest it is still live in Canary Wharf, Shrewsbury, Cwmbran and others…

The Tesco example is probably an indoor femtocell that for some reason has not been upgraded or removed yet (this is the boostbox that one commenter notes). A few limited examples don't disprove the fact that the UK operators have shut down 3G and are shifting spectrum over to 4G/5G

 

[81A]

The Tesco example is probably an indoor femtocell that for some reason has not been upgraded or removed yet (this is the boostbox that one commenter notes). A few limited examples don't disprove the fact that the UK operators have shut down 3G and are shifting spectrum over to 4G/5G

Of course not, and any 3G reliant systems would not work on a national level anymore (unless 2G were sufficient), it is just amusing that o2 are claiming the switch off is complete when 3G is still live in a few places (better than switching off prematurely in areas without 4/5g yet though).

 

[mavsk]

Interesting… I would have thought most 3G kit could drop to 2G (where 3G is gone-almost everywhere but there is still a bit left on o2)? Or is the issue the far lower speed/capacity of 2G not being enough to support everything?

Yes - it's the drop in bandwidth that's the issue.

 

[m0ffy]

Not on o2 (despite what they tell you)! I connected to o2 HSPA in a Tesco last week… And some comments on this article suggest it is still live in Canary Wharf, Shrewsbury, Cwmbran and others…

I have a working 3G micro cell (single blade Nokia base station) in an office I manage, too.
2G switch off is a real pain for utilities - so many pieces of switchgear are controlled via GPRS and an upgrade to 4G is far from straightforward.

 

[Gflynorw]

With o2 having announced their 2g (second generation mobile network) switch off will start in summer 2029 (source, the reason this is significant is that o2 were the only network left without a precise timescale for the switch off) and the Openreach PSTN (public switched telephone network, basically analogue landlines) switch off looming (31 January 2027-source), I was wondering what effect they will have on the railways.

Are any ticket machines/smartcard readers/help points/ticket office terminals/reservation systems/other infrastructure still relying on 2g (including GSM, GPRS, EDGE) or the PSTN? And if so are they upgradable? Or will they need replacing? Thanks in advance for any info (this seems like the sort of thing the railway could be caught out by)…

I know that the Voyagers use GSM to download calling patterns and seat reservations.

 

[68000]

GSM-R is 2G, but AIUI from previous discussions on the forums the railway has it's own entirely separate network (no idea who operates it), so any shutdown of the public 2G network would not affect it.

GSM-R is lined up to be replaced by FRMCS (Future Railway Mobile Communications System) https://uic.org/rail-system/telecoms-signalling/frmcs, which is 5G based but I think will be more forwards-compatible than previous railway radio systems.

The 2026 Network Statement suggests FRMCS is planned to replace GSM-R in CP8 (2029-34), ahead of the anticipated end of support for GSM-R in 2035

GSM-R is owned and operated by Network Rail

 

[81A]

I know that the Voyagers use GSM to download calling patterns and seat reservations.

Uh-oh… Any preparations to switch to 4g/5g? I think the Meridian reservation system is 2g as well?

GSM-R is owned and operated by Network Rail

Good job, too-they can wait to switch off until they are fully ready!

I have a working 3G micro cell (single blade Nokia base station) in an office I manage, too.
2G switch off is a real pain for utilities - so many pieces of switchgear are controlled via GPRS and an upgrade to 4G is far from straightforward.

I wonder how long these last traces of 3G will last… And the last traces of 2g when the time comes!

Yes - it's the drop in bandwidth that's the issue.

Makes sense-I have used (and occasionally still use) EDGE data and it takes (and I actually timed it once) 2 minutes to load a basic webpage on full bars…