TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[chargesmith]

First thoughts on the 398s:

Much lighter and airier than the Flirts, not sure if that's because the windows are bigger, the lighting is better or a combination of both.

It's nice to see rails and hand grabbers along the whole unit, I always thought the 150s needed this as they were regularly busy enough to need them.

Seats are OK, not great not awful.

Windows don't line up with the seats where I was sat which is odd for a new train.

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Very quick and smooth to accelerate but did feel more bumps from the rails than a Flirt, not unacceptable though.

No luggage racks overhead, but lots of space under seats. This is probably why it feels roomier than the Flirts.

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There's no carpets in the passenger saloon at all - it's all hard flooring, makes it feel a bit like a hospital waiting room, albeit a nice one - likely adds to the airy feel.

The speed is another league from anything I've ridden on this line before, from stopped in Llandaf to stopped in Cathays was 3m 40s.

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Had to wait quite a bit for my transfer to Central as a train was cancelled for "more trains than usual needing repairs" showing how important it is that we get more of these out soon.

Was very busy onboard which makes sense as it was due into Cardiff just before 9am.

Unit was 031 which I think is the 4th unit into passenger service?

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Also I sat in the middle car and the temperature onboard was much nicer than my office, a low bar but an improvement nonetheless!

All in all very happy and will have no issues commuting on these, especially when they have the appropriate timetable to allow them to stretch their legs a bit more.

 

[AdamWW]

Windows don't line up with the seats where I was sat which is odd for a new train.

In my experience that's almost always the case for new trains these days, frustratingly. The 197s are dreadful in that respect.
The seats round the few fixed tables on a 398 all have good window alignment, anyway.

There's no carpets in the passenger saloon at all - it's all hard flooring

But anyway no worse than the FLIRTs in that respect. I prefer carpeted floors but I don't think it's very rational as I don't make a habit of walking down trains without my shoes on.

Had to wait quite a bit for my transfer to Central as a train was cancelled for "more trains than usual needing repairs" showing how important it is that we get more of these out soon.

It's also important I think to have a working wheel lathe at Canton so units don't have to be dragged elsewhere (Holyhead?) for wheel turning.
I believe 398s have their own lathe at Taffs Well so that would be another advantage of getting them in service.

 

[chargesmith]

But anyway no worse than the FLIRTs in that respect. I prefer carpeted floors but I don't think it's very rational as I don't make a habit of walking down trains without my shoes on.

Yes I realised my mistake in pointing this out when I boarded a Flirt to get to Central. There's some carpet at the doors but most of it is hard floor but a darker colour which I think I misremembered as being carpet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

In my experience that's almost always the case for new trains these days, frustratingly. The 197s are dreadful in that respect.
The seats round the few fixed tables on a 398 all have good window alignment, anyway.

The windows were particularly odd, there was a 4 and 2 set of seats at the edge of the middle car, and the gap was right down the middle of the 4.

I feel like if they'd swapped the 4 and 2 it would have worked. No idea why they'd been done like that, minor gripe in the grander scheme of things though.

 

[AdamWW]

I feel like if they'd swapped the 4 and 2 it would have worked. No idea why they'd been done like that, minor gripe in the grander scheme of things though.

Yes that sort of thing is odd.

Far better though than the original 150s where almost all the seats were thoughtfully arranged in bays with the window pillar right up the middle.

 

[StripeyNick]

Tried to quote just one part of an earlier message but anyway, there's only been 3 that have worked a passenger train so far.....028 on the first day, 031 on the second then 024

 

[chargesmith]

Tried to quote just one part of an earlier message but anyway, there's only been 3 that have worked a passenger train so far.....028 on the first day, 031 on the second then 024

My mistake, forgot 031 was used last week.

 

[positron]

How many working units do they need to run that Cardiff bay diagram all day? I'm guessing 3 right, 1 to run it, 1 to rescue, 1 undergoing maintenance?

Will be interesting to see how many distinct units they manage to get up and running. If it ends up being the same handful of units for the foreseeable then perhaps that shows there's a lot more work needed on the other units (though hopefully they can know what[ they needed to get these ones working and do the changes necessary).

 

[chargesmith]

How many working units do they need to run that Cardiff bay diagram all day? I'm guessing 3 right, 1 to run it, 1 to rescue, 1 undergoing maintenance?

Will be interesting to see how many distinct units they manage to get up and running. If it ends up being the same handful of units for the foreseeable then perhaps that shows there's a lot more work needed on the other units (though hopefully they can know what[ they needed to get these ones working and do the changes necessary).

021 and 030 are out on test today as well so they could step up and rescue 031 if needed.

Hopefully some of the other units are close to being able to get into service, I think around 12 units have been out recently.

 

[AdamWW]

It looks as if today's passenger run once again made it through the full planned service.

It's interesting that although it was introduced as a hot weather adaptation they still appear to be running the Bay service as a shuttle to Queen Street only when it isn't a 398, with all the non 398 journeys between Queen Street and Pontypridd cancelled.

Possibly I'm missing it as I find the TfW web site quite hard to navigate but I can't find any mention of this as a service alteration or a timetable change.

 

[Daniel Boone]

Possibly I'm missing it as I find the TfW web site quite hard to navigate but I can't find any mention of this as a service alteration or a timetable change.

Off topic but I think most will agree that Transport for Wales' communications/customer relations leave a lot to be desired.

 

[chargesmith]

It looks as if today's passenger run once again made it through the full planned service.

It's interesting that although it was introduced as a hot weather adaptation they still appear to be running the Bay service as a shuttle to Queen Street only when it isn't a 398, with all the non 398 journeys between Queen Street and Pontypridd cancelled.

Possibly I'm missing it as I find the TfW web site quite hard to navigate but I can't find any mention of this as a service alteration or a timetable change.

Another user pointed out that the service pattern was announced before the severe weather warnings so the morning only services may just be a part of the soft launch.

The paths are typical on Monday so will just need to keep an eye on them to see if they change or not.

 

[AdamWW]

Another user pointed out that the service pattern was announced before the severe weather warnings so the morning only services may just be a part of the soft launch.

I thought that was me actually!

But what I'm curious about is not why the 398 only runs in the morning, but why the rest of the time they seem to just have a single 150 shuttling between the Bay and Queen Street rather than running the usual service to Pontypridd.

Off topic but I think most will agree that Transport for Wales' communications/customer relations leave a lot to be desired.

I certainly won't argue with that.
But when they have a significant timetable change they do usually mention it rather than relying on people just looking on the journey planner.
(And this is more than just requiring people to change trains at Queen Street for the Bay - the services they've dropped partially mitigate the significantly extended times for some journeys now that the Aberdare trains run round the City Line).

RTT currently shows it as continuing like this all week.

 

[chargesmith]

Today it looks like 028 is in public service while 021 and 030 are on test again.

 

[Chris125]

Well, yes, but definition is important.

How many vehicles are involved? At the extremes, this could mean one train that has gone 5,000 miles without a fault or 100 trains that have each managed just 50 miles fault-free.

Is it 5,000 miles since a fault was reported on any unit, or is a cumulative 5,000 miles driven by each unit since the most recent fault was reported on that unit?

This might sound cynical and hair-splitting, but TfW is no stranger to spinning facts to make itself look good.

I've just rediscovered this Modern Railways article: https://www.modernrailways.com/article/wales-blazes-trails-new-trains-rails

As this issue of MR went to press, five three-car ‘398s’ were at the Melton test track facility for fault-free running; this is required due to restricted capacity on the CVL network while work continues to complete the upgrades on that system... fault-free running, which initially must be 5,000 miles but will drop, must be completed train by train, but the critical element for all of it is the completion of the validation which enables training material to be confirmed.

 

[chargesmith]

Today 024 is in service from Pontypridd to Cardiff Bay, and 017 and 021 are out on test, I can't remember if 017 is one we haven't seen out recently or not.

 

[AdamWW]

Today 024 is in service from Pontypridd to Cardiff Bay, and 017 and 021 are out on test, I can't remember if 017 is one we haven't seen out recently or not.

Looked as if had a "crew" of at least 5 - driver, someone being trained to work the doors, someone training the person working the doors, someone to check tickets, and someone in hi-vis armed with a screwdriver. (I offer this as a comment not a criticism).

 

[positron]

TBF I would be disappointed if there wasn't a high-vis with a screwdriver given they've taken so long I expect there to be a stadler engineer going above and beyond to help getting this running widely.

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Does anyone have a photo of one of these units at pontypridd in the bay platform? Also does anyone know how long it stays there? I ask because as far as I'm aware there's no fixed conductor bar in pontypridd so they're off wires for a while.

 

[AdamWW]

TBF I would be disappointed if there wasn't a high-vis with a screwdriver given they've taken so long I expect there to be a stadler engineer going above and beyond to help getting this running widely.

Fair point but it's a little disconcerting when they appear to be using the screwdriver on the move...

Though I also saw a running repair attempted on a 756 not so long ago. (The little hinged panel over the guard controls, so nothing too serious).

Anyway it's great that they are running again this week and (I hope I'm not speaking too soon) seem to be doing well.

 

[positron]

We'll no doubt hear about how the rollout has been an overwhelming failure and they're on their way to the scrap heap any second now, but I agree it does seem very positive that they've got them out for a second week. I guess the real test will be how many distinct vehicles they get out over the next few weeks, and also how soon they get the service running to pontypridd if the afternoons too.

I guess also how soon they get them on a route running to central too (to see if network rail tolerate them).

 

[chargesmith]

Does anyone have a photo of one of these units at pontypridd in the bay platform? Also does anyone know how long it stays there? I ask because as far as I'm aware there's no fixed conductor bar in pontypridd so they're off wires for a while.

Yes - can't see the pan up but it might be out of shot. I feel like it's on the middle car though so if there was a bar like at Caerphilly it would be up in those pics?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2026 ==

We'll no doubt hear about how the rollout has been an overwhelming failure and they're on their way to the scrap heap any second now, but I agree it does seem very positive that they've got them out for a second week. I guess the real test will be how many distinct vehicles they get out over the next few weeks, and also how soon they get the service running to pontypridd if the afternoons too.

I guess also how soon they get them on a route running to central too (to see if network rail tolerate them).

Am keeping a close eye on the timetable next week - so far it is a normal service but it could be changed before then.

They've only got 3 units out in public service so far but that's the minimum number they need to replace all the 150s that run so hopefully more than one will be out at the same time soon. And other units are out on test so hopefully getting closer to being able to be in public service.

One person on this forum has already called the soft launch a disaster. No prizes for guessing who...

 

[VR494]

Paths are supposed to be in for the 4tph from December 14th, this will be to Treherbert from Cardiff Bay firstly. Providing an additional service alongside the current Cardiff Central terminators. Merthyr and Aberdare will still be half hourly loops around the city line.

There’s also reportedly no reduction in the journey times between Cardiff and Treherbert despite the claims, meaning it’s still going to be over an hour. Journeys over an hour require a toilet onboard if I remember.

Taffs well depot will also require 12 units daily just to meet the requirements due to the empty stock moves coming off for the TAM. They also want 398’s coming off Treherbert. Except some cancellations, that’s all I will say - or the majority to be 150’s. I don’t think they’ll be ready by December. They’re struggling now just to get the one unit out with the the others required for training runs. And these are full of faults and require a laptop to assist.

There’s also another heatwave in the coming days so units won’t be able to cope and will be need to go home early no doubt!

 

[800001]

Fair point but it's a little disconcerting when they appear to be using the screwdriver on the move...

Though I also saw a running repair attempted on a 756 not so long ago. (The little hinged panel over the guard controls, so nothing too serious).

Anyway it's great that they are running again this week and (I hope I'm not speaking too soon) seem to be doing well.

What's wrong with using a screwdriver on the move?
No different to any other TOCs new fleet introduction where for several months they flood the fleet with engineers/fitters to fix, alter things as and when they doing.

Proactive rather than reactive.

 

[AdamWW]

What's wrong with using a screwdriver on the move?

Nothing I imagine but I'm used to seeing (or rather not seeing) such things being done discreetly in a depot somewhere.

I'm not knocking them and I fully appreciate that having technicians riding on services in the early days is quite normal.
While it's clear that things haven't gone smoothly given how delayed the introduction has been it's great to see them successfully carrying passengers, who generally seem quite happy with the trains.

 

[BillStampy]

One person on this forum has already called the soft launch a disaster. No prizes for guessing who...

Oh I wonder

 

[WelshBluebird]

There’s also reportedly no reduction in the journey times between Cardiff and Treherbert despite the claims, meaning it’s still going to be over an hour. Journeys over an hour require a toilet onboard if I remember.

Certainly speaking from personal experience, I dont see why it isnt possible to shave a few mins off here and there.

Even with the flirts its quite common to be arriving half a minute early at stations on the Treherbert line from Cardiff, meaning longer than needed dwell times whilst we wait for departure time. Hell this has caught me out with delay repay on multiple occasions over the last year as what should be a 30 min delay ended up being just under.

And if course its been reported on here the 398s are quicker at opening the doors thanks to the gap cover being quicker to extend, so that should allow for even quicker dwell times.

I suspect they are probably waiting for the units to bed in, and probably to full replace the flirts and 150s before any timing changes.

 

[tfw756rider]

Looked as if had a "crew" of at least 5 - driver, someone being trained to work the doors, someone training the person working the doors, someone to check tickets, and someone in hi-vis armed with a screwdriver. (I offer this as a comment not a criticism).

TBF I would be disappointed if there wasn't a high-vis with a screwdriver given they've taken so long I expect there to be a stadler engineer going above and beyond to help getting this running widely.

His hi-vis said Transport for Wales.

Fair point but it's a little disconcerting when they appear to be using the screwdriver on the move...

Though I also saw a running repair attempted on a 756 not so long ago. (The little hinged panel over the guard controls, so nothing too serious).

In this case, he had a ceiling panel hinged open (I think by a Passenger Information System screen).

==============================

I rode on 398024 today / Wed 1/7/26 (my first 398 ride) and most of what I'd have to say would just be repeating what others have said, but here are a few things I noticed:

• Although the 398s' initial steady electric traction whine is an octave lower than on the 756s, the ascending whine that follows when accelerating does sound like the 756 one.
• The 398s can also sometimes make some 'unique' / interesting electric traction sounds when slowing down.
• The automated announcements not only have the unfixed 'dim ond i', but they were also either jumping ahead or going behind in terms of stations (and saying, when between Radyr and Taffs Well, 'we have now arrived at... Llandaf' and so the Passenger Information System kept having to be reset).

Finally, it turns out that the 398s have exterior speakers at the top of the sides of the vehicles, like the 555s and 777s!

I saw 398021 on a training run, and as it pulled in to the station I saw it at, a manual announcement was made from the 398 over its exterior speakers, saying "this train is not in passenger service, it's on a training run. Please do not board this train".

 

[Tom125]

Certainly speaking from personal experience, I dont see why it isnt possible to shave a few mins off here and there.

Even with the flirts its quite common to be arriving half a minute early at stations on the Treherbert line from Cardiff, meaning longer than needed dwell times whilst we wait for departure time. Hell this has caught me out with delay repay on multiple occasions over the last year as what should be a 30 min delay ended up being just under.

And if course its been reported on here the 398s are quicker at opening the doors thanks to the gap cover being quicker to extend, so that should allow for even quicker dwell times.

I suspect they are probably waiting for the units to bed in, and probably to full replace the flirts and 150s before any timing changes.

Would speeding up journeys not be dependant on the Treherbert, Merthyr, Aberdare all going four per hour so timetable clashes didn’t occur? The December change is extending the Cardiff Bay to Pontypridd services to Treherbert is it not?

 

[positron]

Would speeding up journeys not be dependant on the Treherbert, Merthyr, Aberdare all going four per hour so timetable clashes didn’t occur? The December change is extending the Cardiff Bay to Pontypridd services to Treherbert is it not?

Yeah it definitely seems possible that it relies on having no 150s or at least far less 150s around before they can speed up the timings, especially because at least initially there always will be a chance that a 150 runs the service occasionally. The timetable never changed when the 756/231s were introduced for exactly that reason. But then acknowledging that doesn't give a chance to bash the 398s...

 

[chargesmith]

Today we have 031 in public service, and 021 and 022 out on test.

For now it seems they are just rotating the first three units, hopefully more will available soon as they do more testing miles though.

 

[StripeyNick]

Aside from 024 on it's first run out, I've noticed that give or take a few minutes, all the 398 diagrams seem to have run as scheduled. Given all the doom and gloom that's been posted on here, I'd take that as a positive