Heatwave 22-27 June - effect on the UK Railway

[Failed Unit]

Presumably the blinds only need to be down on the side of the train onto which the sun is shining?!!

I did notice a massive difference on a class 700 recently (Yes the don't have blinds) but swapping sides of the train did make a massive difference for comfort.

 

[IlkleyRunner]

Reach could cherry pick future output from any manner of other similar model aggregator sites. It's not WX that you need to be mad at here.

But MetDesk get paid for commercial use of their aggregation so there is an obvious incentive (given the UK press fascination with weather) for them to point out the wilder aspects of the models. Reach etc are certainly responsible for not making it clear these individual snapshots are not forecasts, but you have to suspect there's more than a little quid pro quo going on here given how often the wxchart output is used to boost nonsensical weather stories.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I was on an IET last week where the AC was struggling and keeping the blinds down really did make a difference. Your want of a nice view comes secondary when its that hot.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Your want of a nice view comes secondary when its that hot.

But what about people who get travel sick if they can't see out? That doesn't come secondary, I'd say that comes above not wanting to be a degree or two warmer.

Are the 80x aircon units not ageing well? A few years back on the 40 degree day it was like sitting in a fridge. And no the blinds were not closed.

It kind of helps on 80x that windows are mostly not shared between rows, mostly a row gets a full window and the next gets hardly any. If you don't want the sun on you choose a blank wall seat!

This is the problem with blinds, though. They cause unnecessary conflict.

 

[yorkie]

If anyone else have anything else to add about experiences during the recent heatwave from 22-27 June, please post soon, as this thread is going to be closed shortly.

I was on an IET last week where the AC was struggling and keeping the blinds down really did make a difference. Your want of a nice view comes secondary when its that hot.

There is no right for anyone to have the blind down at the expense of others.

But what about people who get travel sick if they can't see out? That doesn't come secondary, I'd say that comes above not wanting to be a degree or two warmer

Especially on Pendolinos, due to the tilt. It's not uncommon for people to need to be able to see out on Pendolinos.

If someone wants the blind down, and someone else wants it up, then they just have to either lump it, or move to another seat if the train's not full.

 

[Bikeman78]

All trams in Sheffield have been withdrawn from service due to heat causing safety concerns.

The hot weather causes disruption to tram services across England | British Trams Online News

www.britishtramsonline.co.uk

Do buses in Sheffield have air con? If not, then why weren't they all taken out of service too? Seems an odd decision.

 

[duffield]

Do buses in Sheffield have air con? If not, then why weren't they all taken out of service too? Seems an odd decision.

The linked article doesn't seem to mention A/C on the Sheffield trams as being the cause of withdrawal. Maybe they were taken out of service due to infrastructure concerns which do not apply to buses? For example, abnormal sagging of the OHLE due to heat could risk dewirement, or the sleepered sections of track might buckle.

Or maybe the lack of A/C being the cause has been mentioned elsewhere?

 

[WelshBluebird]

But what about people who get travel sick if they can't see out? That doesn't come secondary, I'd say that comes above not wanting to be a degree or two warmer.

You could stand by the door to see out. And whilst I dont have the data, it felt a lot more than just 1 or 2 degrees. It was the difference of feeling like you were in a greenhouse with direct sun being amplified by the glass and it not being too bad (albeit still too warm).

Are the 80x aircon units not ageing well? A few years back on the 40 degree day it was like sitting in a fridge. And no the blinds were not closed.

It seems to depend on the unit. Another IET I was on, on the warmer day, was handling it much better.

This is the problem with blinds, though. They cause unnecessary conflict.

Agreed with that but they defo do help when the air con struggles. Of course the answer is to actually have more reliable AC, but it made what would have been pretty hellish be just uncomfortable.

There is no right for anyone to have the blind down at the expense of others

There is no right to have it up at the expense of everyone else either.

 

[yorkie]

You could stand by the door to see out. And whilst I dont have the data, it felt a lot more than just 1 or 2 degrees. It was the difference of feeling like you were in a greenhouse with direct sun being amplified by the glass and it not being too bad (albeit still too warm).

No way can any passenger (or staff member) deny a passenger a view on the basis that they should stand. That's absurd.

There is no right to have it up at the expense of everyone else either.

There is no right to have the blind down; the default position is up, it's that simple. Whether you like it or not, the position was as follows:

Certainly at no point are passengers being forced to have window blinds down while in service if they want to see out.

 

[Bikeman78]

I did notice a massive difference on a class 700 recently (Yes the don't have blinds) but swapping sides of the train did make a massive difference for comfort.

I always try to sit on the shady side during hot weather, though it can be difficult on curvy routes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

The linked article doesn't seem to mention A/C on the Sheffield trams as being the cause of withdrawal. Maybe they were taken out of service due to infrastructure concerns which do not apply to buses? For example, abnormal sagging of the OHLE due to heat could risk dewirement, or the sleepered sections of track might buckle.

Or maybe the lack of A/C being the cause has been mentioned elsewhere?

It doesn't mention air con, but I've travelled on trams over 30 degrees. Non air con buses are vile in a heatwave, and binning the trams will likely cause overcrowding too. So the car wins again.

 

[Krokodil]

But what about people who get travel sick if they can't see out?

Then raise that individual blind. So long as most of them are down (particularly on the sunny side) then it should help the aircon manage in the extreme heat.

There is no right for anyone to have the blind down at the expense of others.

There is no god-given right to have it up either. The TM has simply advised passengers that having it down would be a good idea during the heatwave as the aircon is struggling. Given the way that the pendolino fleet have been, it's good advice.

 

[Purple Train]

There is no right to have the blind down

There is no right to have the blind up. In the example I referred to on my journey on Friday, what specifically annoyed me was that the person raising the blind we were sharing didn't ask me beforehand. Similarly, I only lowered the blind in the first place because I was the only person affected by it. If there has been a person sitting with the blind up, I would have asked if I could lower it or chosen a different seat, as per their wishes because they would have been there first.

(All the other blinds on the sunny side of the train were lowered to a similar level, and I reiterate that I lowered it such that I could see out while in shade, and that mandating that the blind must be fully lowered would make me uncomfortable, though in practice no TM would take a passenger to task for having the blind a mere most of the way down.)

 

[bramling]

There is no right to have the blind up. In the example I referred to on my journey on Friday, what specifically annoyed me was that the person raising the blind we were sharing didn't ask me beforehand. Similarly, I only lowered the blind in the first place because I was the only person affected by it. If there has been a person sitting with the blind up, I would have asked if I could lower it or chosen a different seat, as per their wishes because they would have been there first.

(All the other blinds on the sunny side of the train were lowered to a similar level, and I reiterate that I lowered it such that I could see out while in shade, and that mandating that the blind must be fully lowered would make me uncomfortable, though in practice no TM would take a passenger to task for having the blind a mere most of the way down.)

The only conclusion to reach from this thread is that blinds aren’t a good idea. If people want to sit in the shade then there’s plenty of bulkhead seats. Otherwise it all just seems to add another potential conflict.

 

[Benjwri]

It was the difference of feeling like you were in a greenhouse with direct sun being amplified by the glass and it not being too bad (albeit still too warm).
It seems to depend on the unit. Another IET I was on, on the warmer day, was handling it much better.
Agreed with that but they defo do help when the air con struggles. Of course the answer is to actually have more reliable AC, but it made what would have been pretty hellish be just uncomfortable.

The issue with having better aircon is that just isn’t the issue. The issue is the direct sunlight hitting you. Same as on most summer days there is a significant difference standing in the sun vs the shade. It’s well documented in other areas of life , and the effect is amplified by surfaces touched being heated such as seats.

Aircon can make a difference, but to make it totally comfortable to sit in the sun for a long time it needs to be at a level that is uncomfortable for everyone not in the sun. Sun angle, strength etc also makes a huge difference.

IET aircon, at least in my experience having travelled on most of GWR’s fleet, is that it’s one of the best out there. I can’t think of a unit I’ve been on where it’s been broken, most are pretty fridge like.

 

[Bald Rick]

A point of order regarding blinds... Avanti TMs are  required to make these announcements and they are suggestions, not orders.

On a 390 with struggling HVAC, it does make a demonstrable difference.

Most people choose trains for convenience, not the view, and I'd say 90% of blinds remained down during the recent hot spell.

Indeed, it’s a request not an instruction.

In other news, I had exactly the same request from the Captain of a Virgin A330 recently…

 

[yorkie]

There is no right to have the blind up.

The blind is - by default - up; indeed on many trains there is no other option, as there are no blinds! It is those who want it down who should be seeking others permission.

 

[sh24]

When cabin crew unilaterally dim the windows on a 787, people get very upset both online and in the real world.

 

[bramling]

Indeed, it’s a request not an instruction.

From what the original poster wrote it did sound like it was more an instruction than a request, though of course we weren’t there. One way or other it could well have led to the possibility of conflict, especially nowadays where people don’t seem to be capable of handling compromise.

I’m really not keen on the idea of making a journey where I can’t see out. I don’t think I’ve ever sat in a bullhead seat in my life, and have no intention of starting now. For me it would feel completely wrong. Even when travelling at night I like to look out and know where I am.

 

[Purple Train]

The blind is - by default - up; indeed on many trains there is no other option, as there are no blinds! It is those who want it down who should be seeking others permission.

We shall just have to agree to disagree, then. From my point of view, it is polite to ask permission if you are going to interfere with the comfort of another person, whether that is by raising or lowering the blind, or indeed in any other way. But I appreciate that you have a different view.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

From what the original poster wrote it did sound like it was more an instruction than a request, though of course we weren’t there. One way or other it could well have led to the possibility of conflict, especially nowadays where people don’t seem to be capable of handling compromise.

This is a very valid point - particularly with regards to heat, which tends to do a very good job of increasing conflict on its own.

 

[yorkie]

We shall just have to agree to disagree, then. From my point of view, it is polite to ask permission if you are going to interfere with the comfort of another person, whether that is by raising or lowering the blind, or indeed in any other way. But I appreciate that you have a different view.

"interfering" would be lowering the blind; the status quo / default position is that the blind is raised.

The default expectation of any passenger would be that they would be able to see out of the window and if anyone wants that to not be the case, the onus is on them to check that the other passengers are okay with it.

There is perhaps a debate about if someone else sits nearby who would be affected by the blind being lowered but I don't see it as a valid argument that you should be able to change their expected environment without saying anything to them to check they are okay with it, but they should be checking with you to simply restore the status quo, and that it's acceptable for you to say nothing but not acceptable for them to say nothing, but I accept that's a nuanced and subjective point which may vary depending on the specific circumstances.

But, for sure, those who want the blind lowered need to be mindful that this is not the default position and they have no entitlement to it, and that it should only be lowered if all those affected by it are happy for it to be in the lowered position. This is especially the case on Pendolinos, as described earlier on the thread, where it's not just about having a view or knowing where you are, but many people would feel ill if they cannot see out.

You don't have to seek someone's permission to not feel ill, when the default position is that you wouldn't feel ill!

 

[Krokodil]

"interfering" would be lowering the blind; the status quo / default position is that the blind is raised.

The status quo is whichever position the blind was left in when you boarded the train. If it was down then one would ask permission from the adjacent passenger (if there is one) before raising it.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

My gosh, this is all a bit circular, isn't it?

Doesn't it just boil* down to - if the change you want to make is going to affect someone else, ask them if they're OK with it?


* Pun intended.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

My gosh, this is all a bit circular, isn't it?

Doesn't it just boil* down to - if the change you want to make is going to affect someone else, ask them if they're OK with it?


* Pun intended.

If we can... ahem....close the curtains on the blinds issue, before this thread is locked, do we think the railway as a whole has learned any lessons from how it handled last week's heatwave?

I think most of us would agree that most TOCs overreacted in needlessly cancelling trains on several lines and issuing "don't travel unless your journey is essential" notices.

Perhaps in future the general message from the rail industry to its customers should be "Whatever the weather we'll get you there" instead of "only travel if you really have to"?

 

[yorkie]

The status quo is whichever position the blind was left in when you boarded the train. If it was down then one would ask permission from the adjacent passenger (if there is one) before raising it.

Given most trains don't even have blinds, this is at best a play on semantics while completely missing the point.

 

[LAX54]

If rail has recently been relaid or not fully stressed then the rail temperature threshold can be surprisingly low. @Bald Rick has previously explained how he’s had to explain this counter-intuitive behaviour. If that is even indeed the reasons for the cancellations.

That being said, 35+ degrees C is not low on any metric.

Just been watching a video posted a few days ago, there was a traveller in Norway trying out their Inter City trains, on one route into Oslo, they had to use a 'Bus Bridge' (or RRB ) as the track was buckled on the route, they were citiing excessive hot weather, the temperature was 77F (25c ) the rail replacement bus seemed well organised tho

 

[bramling]

This is a very valid point - particularly with regards to heat, which tends to do a very good job of increasing conflict on its own.

Unfortunately this whole thread, and not least the bit about the blinds, serves a reminder why I avoided any form of mainline rail travel last week. The more I read the more I’m sure I made the right choice. This is unfortunately a somewhat depressing state of affairs, as ideally one would expect rail to be the mode that gets through whatever, which is increasingly not the case nowadays.

 

[The exile]

I think most of us would agree that most TOCs overreacted in needlessly cancelling trains on several lines and issuing "don't travel unless your journey is essential" notices.

Perhaps in future the general message from the rail industry to its customers should be "Whatever the weather we'll get you there" instead of "only travel if you really have to"?

Assuming GW’s afternoon peak cancellations were forced rather than precautionary, then the advice to avoid non-essential travel (and the season ticket refunds that hopefully come with it) was exactly right.

 

[Purple Train]

Unfortunately this whole thread, and not least the bit about the blinds, serves a reminder why I avoided any form of mainline rail travel last week. The more I read the more I’m sure I made the right choice. This is unfortunately a somewhat depressing state of affairs, as ideally one would expect rail to be the mode that gets through whatever, which is increasingly not the case nowadays.

I made two long-distance return trips last week and at no point did I feel that I was being hung out to dry. Yes, there were delays - I was around half an hour late on both return legs - but I really do think that the railway performed pretty well given the conditions (or at least no worse than usual, given long-distance GWR isn't the most punctual in my experience).

 

[WillC]

I think the summary point above is well made. It was very hot, and this was likely going to impact the railways. Plans were put in place and largely executed well. Some problems did occur but operators did their best to deal with them. The media however created the typical fear-based horror show that got everyone worked up and made it all worse.

 

[Coleridge]

I think the summary point above is well made. It was very hot, and this was likely going to impact the railways. Plans were put in place and largely executed well.

The only problem was, that the "plans" for some TOCs were simply to cancel almost everything and to blame the passengers for having the temerity to travel if they got delayed.