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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

norbitonflyer

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Although being SWR suburban, the chance of a guard actually walking through the train, at least once during a journey, rather than hiding in back cab is fairly low.
I can't say guards never ride in the back cab, but in my expereince guards on 701s ride in the passenger ara and dispatch from one of the doors. I spoke to one this morning (and so did several others, to seek clarification as the announcements and screens were contradicting his own announcements)
 
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w11_supremecy

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Although being SWR suburban, the chance of a guard actually walking through the train, at least once during a journey, rather than hiding in back cab is fairly low.

I can't say guards never ride in the back cab, but in my expereince guards on 701s ride in the passenger ara and dispatch from one of the doors. I spoke to one this morning (and so did several others, to seek clarification as the announcements and screens were contradicting his own announcements)

You will rarely see guards in the back cab of a 701/0 simply because it's very inefficient to be there. Guards will usually only position themselves in the back cab if the train is very busy/full and standing during peak periods or events. What is common on much every station with curves and thus CCTV dispatch monitors is that the nearest monitor to the rear cab of the train is two or three coaches down. If a guard is in the back cab, they are to walk down and check the monitor/signal if there is one, walk back to press the close doors button, walk back again to the CCTV monitor to check all the doors have closed correctly and that it is safe to dispatch the train, and then walk back to the rear cab. You can be sure this will add a couple of minutes to most station stops, so therefore the vast majority will avoid being in the back cab for extended periods, unless they have to for a full and standing peak service, because you pick up a lot of delay minutes unless dispatchers are available on curved platforms like they are during peak periods.

If the platform is straight then the guard can be in the back cab and dispatch safely without having to move further along the platform. But the opportunities to do that for more than one station in a row are few and far between. There are a couple of routes/service patterns where it is possible for the guard to sit in the back cab for around 10-15 minutes. But 10-15 minutes on a journey that is probably around an hour long is not much at all. So the vast majority of the time the guard will be in then passenger areas visible as you would otherwise lose too much time. Are some guards more proactive than others in walking up and down the train? Yes. But sometimes it is not practical. This is why I have tagged Snow1964's comment. Often when the service is particularly busy or when the guard is familiar with particular services and how busy they may become, it can be much better to stay in a particular coach where they can dispatch from most platforms without having to move their local door. You will find many guards in either coach 5 or 6 as these coaches line up well with nearly all CCTV monitors. At the end of the day the safe operation of the train is the most important and being visible/walking up and down the train takes lesser priority, and anything that helps operation is key. There are many other legitimate scenarios where it's better from the guard's point of view to stay in a particular coach for a large portion of a journey, but I won't go into them now.

What many forget is there is no cab/guard's office/refuge at all on a 701/0 except for the back cab - in coach 10 of 10. That's a long, long way to go to get an item from their work bag, to have a sip of water etc. If you see a guard in the back cab it's probably because they need a small moment to catch their breath or to fetch something.

I understand many have a dim view when they see a guard staying in the cab for nearly the whole journey when the train isn't very busy, but in my view that is mostly not true for 701 services. Specifically the 701/0s. However, when the 701/5s come into service soon and they pair two units together, you will naturally get a bunch hiding in the cab in the middle for the whole journey (as seen on SWR's other stock) since being in the right/convenient dispatch positions will be a non-issue. Of course, it must be said that there are many valid reasons why a guard must be in the cab, some of which are mandatory according to the rulebook, but again, that's for another time.
 

Meglos

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I can't say guards never ride in the back cab, but in my expereince guards on 701s ride in the passenger ara and dispatch from one of the doors. I spoke to one this morning (and so did several others, to seek clarification as the announcements and screens were contradicting his own announcements)
I travel on SWR suburban services at least 6 days a week - albiet not in the morning rush hour - and it's extremely rare not to see a guard in the passenger cabin. Most walk through during the journey, and close the doors from various locations throughout the journey.

Most guards announce "I'm in carriage x of this 10 car train, and will be moving through the train throughout the journey. I can also be found on the platform at each stop."
 
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Goldfish62

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I travel on SWR suburban services at least 6 days a week - albiet not in the morning rush hour - and it's extremely rare not to see a guard in the passenger cabin. Most walk through during the journey, and close the doors from various locations throughout the journey.
That's exactly what I find as well.
 

Snow1964

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I travel on SWR suburban services at least 6 days a week - albiet not in the morning rush hour
I guess my view was biased from over 20 years of commuting into Waterloo from Richmond, or Norbiton or Kingston from mid 1990s. So probably 450 journeys a year or around 9000 journeys all at busy peak hour during which saw guard come through about once every 2-3 years, say 1 in 1000 journeys.
 

swr444

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I guess my view was biased from over 20 years of commuting into Waterloo from Richmond, or Norbiton or Kingston from mid 1990s. So probably 450 journeys a year or around 9000 journeys all at busy peak hour during which saw guard come through about once every 2-3 years, say 1 in 1000 journeys.
Trains are usually very full by Richmond and the guard would have just done a full walk through. we usually position ourselves in the middle / cab after Richmond due to the services filling up there.
 

800001

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701501 shuttling up and down the test track at Litchurch Lane today.

701507, 511 and 514 seen parked up also at Litchurch.
 
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markle

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I don't know how others have found it but it's fair to say the AC on the 701s today feels a lot better than it did during the previous heatwave. Glad it's been fine tuned.
 

Recessio

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I travel on SWR suburban services at least 6 days a week - albiet not in the morning rush hour - and it's extremely rare not to see a guard in the passenger cabin. Most walk through during the journey, and close the doors from various locations throughout the journey.

Most guards announce "I'm in carriage x of this 10 car train, and will be moving through the train throughout the journey. I can also be found on the platform at each stop."


I agree, I'm the first to criticise guards that do this, but credit where credit is due I've never seen a guard on a 701 who isn't present and helpful. They've always been walking through and helpful and making good announcements. There was a medical emergency and passenger alarm activation the other week and the guard was brilliant, I emailed customer services afterwards to ensure the guard got recognition as so often I fear people only ever complain to ToCs, not praise them.

That said, I will complain about the toilet smells - I was on a 701 the other day that you could smell the toilet the entire length of the train. One of the downsides of connected carriages and no opening windows, I guess.
 

Big Jumby 74

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There was a medical emergency and passenger alarm activation the other week and the guard was brilliant, I emailed customer services afterwards to ensure the guard got recognition as so often I fear people only ever complain to ToCs, not praise them.
May I say as a retired old fxxt person from the job, thank you for taking the trouble to pass your comments back to those on the job. It DOES make a difference, even if only to the individual and their Manager concerned.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

That said, I will complain about the toilet smells - I was on a 701 the other day that you could smell the toilet the entire length of the train.
That is a subject of a-another thread, of which train crew have no control over, and I would agree with you. The drive for eco answers to many issues in todays world, does sometimes result in other negative outcomes. There will never be a silver bullet to every perceived problem - cause and effect etc.
 
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Peter Sarf

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May I say as a retired old fxxt from the job, thank you for taking the trouble to pass your comments back to those on the job. It DOES make a difference, even if only to the individual and their Manager concerned.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


That is a subject of a-another thread, of which train crew have no control over, and I would agree with you. The drive for eco answers to many issues in todays world, does sometimes result in other negative outcomes. There will never be a silver bullet to every perceived problem - cause and effect etc.
Started a new thread regarding eco toilets so as to keep this thread erm clean.

It is a new technology that is going to effect other classes of trains eventually.
 

TEW

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There's definitely at least one but I don't have access to what it is exactly right now, main suburban though.
 

Big Jumby 74

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There's definitely at least one but I don't have access to what it is exactly right now, main suburban though
If those in planning are up against it, work wise, the next STP diagram detail may have been passed to CONTROL to implement from Monday, although there is still time for a correct planning issue as it's still only Thursday!
 

Roylang

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May I say as a retired old fxxt person from the job, thank you for taking the trouble to pass your comments back to those on the job. It DOES make a difference, even if only to the individual and their Manager concerned.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I had some wonderful customer service from a GWR train manager once. I emailed to say what a good job they had done and got a reply explaining why I was not entitled to compensation. Made me wonder why I bothered as they obviously didn’t read my mail properly.

Roy
 

Big Jumby 74

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I had some wonderful customer service from a GWR train manager once. I emailed to say what a good job they had done and got a reply explaining why I was not entitled to compensation
I have no personal experience of todays railway and its delay/repay etc.

I only comment about giving positive feedback when I (as a passenger, irrespective of being an employee travelling to/from work at the time) had witnessed over and above responses by the train crew concerned, when something has gone amiss.

People will only judge their responses by their own circumstances in regard to any delays/disruption, and to me the modern trend of claiming a financial return, whilst valid in many circumstances, is obscene in others - and by that I give an example of someone related to my family who took their own life (under a train) in the Brookwood area some years ago.

Whilst I didn't know the person personally, or the driver involved, I did know, and had worked with the Driver Manager concerned, which will have caused them, as it did I, some distress.
 

Nimbus020

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I agree, I'm the first to criticise guards that do this, but credit where credit is due I've never seen a guard on a 701 who isn't present and helpful. They've always been walking through and helpful and making good announcements. There was a medical emergency and passenger alarm activation the other week and the guard was brilliant, I emailed customer services afterwards to ensure the guard got recognition as so often I fear people only ever complain to ToCs, not praise them.

That said, I will complain about the toilet smells - I was on a 701 the other day that you could smell the toilet the entire length of the train. One of the downsides of connected carriages and no opening windows, I guess.
Agreed re. SWR guards on 701s - they’re always visible & do a great job - I always try to thank them if I can when I get off
 

Peter Sarf

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It ought to be something that the train crew could record and if a vehicle is clearly different, then either got faulty thermostat or faulty system. What happened to old days of putting problems in a fault log book. (I am talking obviously different temperature, not some extra duties of checking to nearest tenth of a degree with a digital thermometer)

Although being SWR suburban, the chance of a guard actually walking through the train, at least once during a journey, rather than hiding in back cab is fairly low.
Without hunting the guard out on SWR suburban journeys I am rather struck with how often I have encountered a guard and how often they move about. I am usually aiming to get on/off roughly mid train where the stairs to the foot bridge are at Clapham Junction.
 

3141

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I had some wonderful customer service from a GWR train manager once. I emailed to say what a good job they had done and got a reply explaining why I was not entitled to compensation. Made me wonder why I bothered as they obviously didn’t read my mail properly.

Roy

About 25 years ago I arrived at St. Pancras to travel to Manchester. It was at the time when Midland Main Line were running a Manchester service because of major works on the line from Euston. There had been a problem and no trains were operating. Passengers were advised to go to Euston, where Virgin West Coast would accept our tickets. I had doubts about what might happen when my ticket was checked on the Virgin train but it was OK. I therefore wrote to Virgin to congratulate them on accepting MML's tickets. I don't recall the precise details of the reply but it clearly assumed I had complained. Two weeks later I received another letter gratefully thanking me for having bothered to write to congratulate them on the arrangements made between them and MML.

So I think that sometimes, when people are under pressure, they just press a standard reply button, but when someone has more time to read what they've received you may get a more relevant response.
 

Feathers44

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Agreed re. SWR guards on 701s - they’re always visible & do a great job - I always try to thank them if I can when I get off
Agreed. With the change from 455s and their centre cabs to work from, I felt a bit of sympathy for the change in working practices that would need adoption but my regular experience as a passenger has been positive. I don't have a public facing role and can’t imagine having one without the ability to retreat as needed, at least on occasion.

Being thanked by a guard last week, as I moved away from the dispatch panel (or whatever it’s called) as we pulled into a station so he could do his job really wasn’t necessary.
 

NSEWonderer

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Agreed. With the change from 455s and their centre cabs to work from, I felt a bit of sympathy for the change in working practices that would need adoption but my regular experience as a passenger has been positive. I don't have a public facing role and can’t imagine having one without the ability to retreat as needed, at least on occasion.

Being thanked by a guard last week, as I moved away from the dispatch panel (or whatever it’s called) as we pulled into a station so he could do his job really wasn’t necessary.
You'll be surprised how many people won't move or make little effort to when clearly told or can see the guard needs that panel, several cases when its open and people just stand right In front of it.
 

Nimbus020

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You'll be surprised how many people won't move or make little effort to when clearly told or can see the guard needs that panel, several cases when its open and people just stand right In front of it.
Sounds like complete ignorance about what’s going on & why the guard needs it etc.
 

800001

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Sounds like complete ignorance about what’s going on & why the guard needs it etc.
That's everyday life in all situations now a days. People have no awareness of what is or needs to happen around them.
 

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