How can I be sure a train is a Thameslink train on my route please?

[curly]

After finding out that the the rear carriage on Thameslink trains is declassified, How can I be sure that every train that runs from Knebworth to Kings Cross is a Thameslink one, and therefore has the back carriage declassified? I wouldn't like to be sitting in first class without a ticket that allows me to be there.
I don't find the information shows on the screens either on the train or at the station.
Thank you so much.

 

[yorkie]

After finding out that the the rear carriage on Thameslink Thameslink trains is declassified, How can I be sure that every train that runs from Knebworth to Kings Cross is a Thameslink one, and therefore has the back carriage declassified? I wouldn't like to be sitting in first class without a ticket that allows me to be there.
I don't find the information shows on the screens either on the train or at the station.
Thank you so much.

If there is no signage on the scrolling display, then it's safest to assume it's not declassified.

For any train shown in the timetable as conveying 1st, then any accommodation labelled as 1st should be assumed to be unavailable to Standard class passengers unless there is a sign/screen stating it is declassified.

In practice, on this route, if it is a "class 700" type train (see below), then you are OK, and any other type of train (e.g. Class 387 & similar variants) and it's not declassified.

British Rail Class 700 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Aren't all trains calling at Knebworth operated under the 'Great Northern' sub-brand, which is part of Greater Thameslink Railway?

 

[rhizomergence]

In practice, on this route, if it is a "class 700" type train (see below), then you are OK, and any other type of train (e.g. Class 387 & similar variants) and it's not declassified.

Just curious, some of the Great Northern trains between London and Cambridge (and probably elsewhere but I’m not too familiar) are run with Thameslink-branded 700s (which IMO is quite unfortunate for passenger comfort). Is the rear 1st declassified in this case?

 

[yorkie]

Just curious, some of the Great Northern trains between London and Cambridge (and probably elsewhere but I’m not too familiar) are run with Thameslink-branded 700s (which IMO is quite unfortunate for passenger comfort). Is the rear 1st declassified in this case?

My understanding is that on all Thameslink branded stock (regardless of the brand the service is shown as), rear 1st should be declassified.

It's cropped up many times previously:

Does the same apply when 700s are used on GN services?

Yes. I have seen some recent vague doubt over this on this forum on this issue and whether it is explicitly stated anywhere, but it's beyond reasonable doubt, to me. I have passed every ticket check I have ever had in such situations (I travel from a station only served by GN), station departure boards state First Class at the front, the PIS on the train states "this area may be used by standard class ticket holders".

I've travelled on countless 700-operated Great Northen services, the same "This area can be used by standard class ticket holders" message has always appeared and I've passed multiple RPI checks in there. The rear is definitely declassified!

The message "This area may be used by Standard Class ticket holders" has always been present on 700 operated GN services, I remember asking the same question on here when they first started operating the outer suburbans; yes it's available for use.

The rear 1st class compartment on Thameslink branded trains is permanently declassified and can be used by standsard class ticket holders. This is regardless of which route they are running on. Note only class 700 trains have Thameslink branding.

I asked this exact question to a GN driver on the 700 I was on, the reply: Front only first class.

700’s are rear 1st is declassified on both TL&GN

Indeed searching Twitter for "from:@GNRailUK declassified 700" shows that certainly in 2019 the rear first class compartment on 700s was declassified even on Great Northern: https://twitter.com/search?q=from:@GNRailUK declassified 700&f=live , for example



As for this web page:



My interpretation is that the bottom warning is meant to apply to the standard-class-only route list immediately above, warning that just because some Thameslink trains are fully declassified at your station, there may be other (Thameslink or potentially other TOC) trains that are not.

(Edit: spelling)

 

[curly]

Thank you so much for your time and clarification.

 

[rhizomergence]

My understanding is that on all Thameslink branded stock (regardless of the brand the service is shown as), 1st should be declassified.

Thank you. Very thorough!

 

[curly]

Is that just the end carriage, or all first class carriages on the train please?

 

[81A]

Is that just the end carriage, or all first class carriages on the train please?

Only the rear is always declassified (and only on Thameslink branded class 700s, as above) as far as I know. Generally, if in any doubt at all, it is best to just stay in standard to avoid issues.

 

[Hadders]

Just to reiterate what @yorkie has said, any train operated by class 700 trains has the rear 1st class compartment declassified. This is regardless of the service it’s operating.

So, if it’s on a Kings Cross to Cambridge stopping service then the rear compartment is declassified and there will be messages on rotation to this effect on the information screens inside the compartment.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Is that just the end carriage, or all first class carriages on the train please?

Only and always the rear first class on all Class 700 operated services serving Knebworth, whether Great Northern or Thameslink branded.

It may be full by the time it reaches you, especially if it's one of the peak 12 car Peterborough to Horsham trains!