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The Labour Party under Andy Burnham

EYFanatic

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Im not a member of the Labour Party (if it matters for the record, I am a card carrying member of the Official Monster Raving Looney Party) but if I was, I'd be furious that my leader was set to resign and virtually hand over the Party and government to a guy who pushed a man out of his seat, jumped in it and then becomes leader and PM

Doesn't seem right at all does it?
 
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Cowley

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Im not a member of the Labour Party (if it matters for the record, I am a card carrying member of the Official Monster Raving Looney Party) but if I was, I'd be furious that my leader was set to resign and virtually hand over the Party and government to a guy who pushed a man out of his seat, jumped in it and then becomes leader and PM

Doesn't seem right at all does it?

It doesn’t seem right, but then if the party are asking themselves the question, will Starmer be able to win another election? Well the answer the majority of them seem to be coming to is no.

So on that basis they obviously feel that at some point they’ll have to do something about this.

It does all seem to be happening very quickly, but I’d argue that this has been building up for a while now and the people he would have thrown under the bus after the May locals, were already thrown under the bus over other things like Mandelson and he’s run out of options.

This may well end up being a complete disaster, but it was going that way anyway and Starmer has metaphorically lost the dressing room.
 

AlterEgo

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brad465

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He's dead meat, BBC on a Sunday running this really means the vultures are circling.

BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c867zj808eyt?app-referrer=push-notification
Starmer reflecting on 'political realities' facing him, cabinet minister says - BBC News
The FT are reporting that he's going to announce the transition this week, potentially as soon as tomorrow:


Sir Keir Starmer is on the brink of resigning as Britain’s prime minister, according to his allies, in a move that could pave the way for Andy Burnham to become the country’s seventh leader in the decade since Brexit. Colleagues expect Starmer to agree to an “orderly” timetable for a transition of power, after the premier spent an agonising weekend consulting ministers, friends and his family. An announcement could come as early as Monday.
 

JamieL

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Does this mean that there won’t even be a pretend contest then? Just a handing over of the keys and off we go again?
It sounds like it. Well, 2 years of Burnham then before the country and PLP tire of him and then onto someone else. The only question is whether we will have a General Election following Burnham's coronation.
 

brad465

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Does this mean that there won’t even be a pretend contest then? Just a handing over of the keys and off we go again?
There's no convenient smooth process either way: a "coronation" avoids a protracted divisive leadership contest and also an extremist in the eyes of the members but not MPs getting in, but also means policy areas are untested and unscrutinised. A contest has the reverse pros and cons. Theresa May demonstrated the challenges of a coronation, while Liz Truss demonstrated the challenges of a protracted leadership contest.
 

AlterEgo

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Neither approach is superior in my view. They both have pros and cons. However, at this stage, a coronation is probably the proper way for a transition to be managed. Starmer has been a lame duck for some time, entirely his fault.

Burnham is a decent bloke and a vastly better communicator but has consistently been a people pleaser and will find being Prime Minister a step beyond his political acumen. Three years at most until he gets taken round the back of the barn with a shotgun.
 

brad465

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The main reason they're going for Burnham is recently he has been the only senior politician anywhere in the UK with a net positive approval rating (I don't expect this to last as PM, just by way of becoming PM), and by far Labour's most popular politician right now. Had a sitting Labour MP/Minister had decent approval ratings that were only slightly below Burnham, they'd be the natural choice, as they could be got in quickly without a tricky by-election and its associated media circus. But because no such person exists right now, Burnham is strong enough relative to rivals to be worth pursuing.
 

HSTEd

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The best hope for Labour is for Burnham to understand that the next general election is lost and act accordingly.

Rather than chasing short term approval ratings in the hope of getting re-elected.
 

Trackman

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The best hope for Labour is for Burnham to understand that the next general election is lost and act accordingly.

Rather than chasing short term approval ratings in the hope of getting re-elected.
I wouldn't say lost, but open to all kinds of possibilities.
 

Cowley

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I wouldn't say lost, but open to all kinds of possibilities.

I guess one possibility being that other centre left/left leaning parties might be willing to go into coalition with Burnham, in a way that they probably wouldn’t have with Starmer.

There’s a lot that may happen between now and then though and I definitely have some of the concerns expressed by @AlterEgo above.
 

jfollows

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Im not a member of the Labour Party (if it matters for the record, I am a card carrying member of the Official Monster Raving Looney Party) but if I was, I'd be furious that my leader was set to resign and virtually hand over the Party and government to a guy who pushed a man out of his seat, jumped in it and then becomes leader and PM

Doesn't seem right at all does it?
I agree, I guess I was once a Conservative indirectly through university in 1980, but I think the Labour Party in general and Andy Burnham in particular have behaved disgustingly, little interest in running the country and factional fights for power instead.

They’re no better than the Conservatives they replaced, although I hoped they would be. They’re just reinforcing the message that politicians should never be believed and are in it for themselves. “Change” - what utter nonsense. More of the same, more like.
 

quantinghome

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Does this mean that there won’t even be a pretend contest then? Just a handing over of the keys and off we go again?
Yep. The PM is not a president. They are whoever can command a majority in the house of commons.

PMs stepping down mid-term is actually quite common. Pop quiz - who was the last person who became PM in an election and also stepped down as PM having lost an election?
 

quantinghome

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Heath? Although technically I suppose he didn't lose the 1974 election given it was a hung Parliament.
Correct. Technically he did lose, but Labour also didn't win...

I agree, I guess I was once a Conservative indirectly through university in 1980, but I think the Labour Party in general and Andy Burnham in particular have behaved disgustingly, little interest in running the country and factional fights for power instead. They’re no better than the Conservatives they replaced, although I hoped they would be. They’re just reinforce the message that politicians should never be believed and are in it for themselves. “Change” - what utter nonsense. More of the same, more like.
Not sure where you get the idea that the current situation is somehow reprehensible or 'parties behaving badly'

It doesn't bear much scrutiny in historical context. About half the PMs since 1900 became PMs mid-term and carried on without holding a snap election. Lloyd George basically did a coup in the middle of WW1. Churchill we all know about - but also Macmillan, Home, Callaghan, Major and Brown (I'll not recite the recent Tory list as we'd be here all day). Parties replace unpopular PMs all the time.

The recent local elections were clearly used by voters to 'send a message' to the Labour Party that they've had enough of the current leader.

Arguably the only unusual thing is that Labour are actually biting the bullet, rather than the usual approach of sticking with an unpopular leader to the bitter end then having a factional squabble in the comfort of opposition.
 

Brightonboy

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There is a further rarely spoken question around this as well. In the even that Andy starts to become a successful PM, he could have 10 years in the role of leader which would likely leave Streeting and Rayner with little chance of succeeding him as long term PMs.

If they want a shot at the top job, they probably either have to force a leadership contest now or let him have the 'coronation' and hope to force a contest at some point in the not too different future (after the next GE?). He may, yet, not have too comfortable a ride.
 

brad465

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The best hope for Labour is for Burnham to understand that the next general election is lost and act accordingly.

Rather than chasing short term approval ratings in the hope of getting re-elected.
Depends on the definition of "lost" - a Labour majority is almost impossible on current performance, but I wouldn't rule out a hung parliament with Labour as the largest party. In that instance you could say Burnham is acting accordingly as he's talked up PR a lot, which a Labour-led coalition will almost certainly have to adopt.
 

HSTEd

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Depends on the definition of "lost" - a Labour majority is almost impossible on current performance, but I wouldn't rule out a hung parliament with Labour as the largest party. In that instance you could say Burnham is acting accordingly as he's talked up PR a lot, which a Labour-led coalition will almost certainly have to adopt.
I think even a "labour largest party" arrangement is now implausible. It is very rare that governments recover from a polling situation like this.

I think Burnham just has to treat this as three years which will be the last labour ever get in majority government, at least for a generation or two. The hard part would be convincing the PLP of this (a lot of careerists in denial even recently), but if he can do so he can probably do quite a lot.

Three years from the 1997-2001 term got a lot of big stuff through, even though I disagree with a lot of it, the volume and impact cannot be denied.

Burnham can't leave PR for the next labour manifesto, because the next labour manifesto is almost certainly not getting implemented.
 

Cdd89

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Burnham is acting accordingly as he's talked up PR a lot, which a Labour-led coalition will almost certainly have to adopt.
More likely that a Labour-led coalition would put the topic to another referendum "to be democratic", which they would then ensure was unsuccessful as it's easy to scare people off electoral reform. We've been around this one before!
 

martin butler

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Clearly Starmer is toast, he's lost the confidence of the house, and will have to go,

Andy Burnam will have to hit the ground running, and be decisive, you can be sure the entire right-wing media will be screaming for a general election now,

Burnham as PM, will need to bring in measures that cut the ground under reform, and the client media, stricter social media controls for one, to make editors financially responsible when they print lies, and moves to bring the energy companies under better control and nationalise the failing water companies
 

JamieL

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There is a further rarely spoken question around this as well. In the even that Andy starts to become a successful PM, he could have 10 years in the role of leader which would likely leave Streeting and Rayner with little chance of succeeding him as long term PMs. If they want a shot at the top job, they probably either have to force a leadership contest now or let him have the 'coronation' and hope to force a contest at some point in the not too different future (after the next GE?). He may, yet, not have too comfortable a ride.
There isn't a hope of him having 10 years in power. All the structural issues that brought down Sunak and now Starmer, will also bring down Burnham within several years at most. Cost of living being the mainstay - the PMs can't fix it because the UK economy is broken as a result of excess borrowing and Brexit. Unless and until we set conditions for re-entry into the EU and Single Market, we are going to burn through PMs. And we probably have a dreadful and crippling diversion through the far-right before we get to a position where we can re-enter the EU.
 

brad465

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I think even a "labour largest party" arrangement is now implausible. It is very rare that governments recover from a polling situation like this.
We've also never had a polling situation where 4 or even 5 parties are sustaining polling within a few % of each other while still having FPTP*. If Labour were polling their current value and either the Tories or someone else is polling 35+%, I would agree with you, but right now there is far too much going on that has never happened in UK politics before.

*Technically in mid-2019 around the Article 50 extension saga this happened, but it was very short-lived.
 

quantinghome

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There is a further rarely spoken question around this as well. In the even that Andy starts to become a successful PM, he could have 10 years in the role of leader which would likely leave Streeting and Rayner with little chance of succeeding him as long term PMs. If they want a shot at the top job, they probably either have to force a leadership contest now or let him have the 'coronation' and hope to force a contest at some point in the not too different future (after the next GE?). He may, yet, not have too comfortable a ride.
Streeting and Rayner are 42 and 46 respectively, and both have been MPs for only 11 years. They have at least 20 years to have a crack at becoming PM.

In my opinion this is actually to be welcomed. A lot of the recent political turmoil has been down to PMs to having had a short 'apprenticeship' as MPs and ministers - in contrast to the historical situation where a PM would have had 20 to 30 years' experience as an MP prior to getting to No. 10.
 
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HSTEd

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More likely that a Labour-led coalition would put the topic to another referendum "to be democratic", which they would then ensure was unsuccessful as it's easy to scare people off electoral reform. We've been around this one before!
The minor partners will be wise to this now and will collapse the government if a referendum is implemented.

It will be PR by simple act of parliament or there will be no coalition.

I think given the emerging political consensus that something on electoral reform must be done, that Labour could probably just introduce an act of parliament this parliament.
 

brad465

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Streeting and Rayner are 42 and 46 respectively, and both have been MPs for only 11 years. They have at least 20 years to have a crack at becoming PM. And IMO this is actually to be welcomed. A lot of the recent political turmoil has been down to PMs to having had a short 'apprenticeship' as MPs and ministers - in contrast to the historical situation where a PM would have had 20 to 30 years' experience as an MP prior to getting to No. 10.
This is an under-discussed issue certainly: even Cameron had only been an MP for 9 years before becoming PM, and over half those years were as Leader of the Opposition. It says a lot about his lack of experience that he could only manage a hung parliament situation off the back of a major recession combined with Labour fatigue in office (and bigot-gate). May and Johnson had more years' political service (18 for May, and Johnson 7 years plus 8 years as Mayor, then another 4 years as MP), but May scored an own goal then was grappled with a party situation even Thatcher would have struggled to contain, and Johnson, well, no explanation needed.

Burnham is in strong stead based on years' experience, as he was an MP for 16 years, including a couple of cabinet posts under Brown, then 9 years as Mayor of Greater Manchester. Of course he has his own issues, including taking over Labour at their lowest point while also getting into No.10 in a haphazard manner. He also needs to grapple with modern communication challenges from a level where Starmer couldn't even get the basics right.
 

317 forever

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Im not a member of the Labour Party (if it matters for the record, I am a card carrying member of the Official Monster Raving Looney Party) but if I was, I'd be furious that my leader was set to resign and virtually hand over the Party and government to a guy who pushed a man out of his seat, jumped in it and then becomes leader and PM

Doesn't seem right at all does it?
There is another irony, even if a little unlikely.

Suppose someone usually gives Labour a chance but the 1 Labour politician they absolutely cannot abide is Andy Burnham.

They could have voted Labour in 2024, safe in the knowledge that Andy was not standing for Parliament and was surely not destined to become an MP yet alone Prime Minister, but now sees things going horribly wrong.

I have liked Andy as Greater Manchester Mayor, but am trying to empathise with people who have the view expressed above.
 

AlterEgo

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There isn't a hope of him having 10 years in power. All the structural issues that brought down Sunak and now Starmer, will also bring down Burnham within several years at most. Cost of living being the mainstay - the PMs can't fix it because the UK economy is broken as a result of excess borrowing and Brexit. Unless and until we set conditions for re-entry into the EU and Single Market, we are going to burn through PMs. And we probably have a dreadful and crippling diversion through the far-right before we get to a position where we can re-enter the EU.
This seems more realistic and is why I am even less certain Burnham will make a good PM. He is not a man who will deal with conflicting priorities well and he will struggle to make unpopular choices.
 

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