TOC share of an All Line Rover

[Jan Mayen]

Sitting in a First Class lounge, coffee and biscuits, wondering how much each TOC gets from my 14 day First Class ALR. Anyone know? Or rather, does anyone know who feels they can answer?

As a minor point of interest, I've never put in so many delay repay claims. Anyway, I digress.

 

[Watershed]

I've no insider information on this but I would have thought some of the possible methods of revenue apportionment would be:

• Sample surveys (as used on Travelcards, at least historically)
• By passenger-km or vehicle-km as a share of the industry's total
• Proportionally to each TOC's overall industry revenue

Or some combination of the above. It may also be in line with how Railcard revenue is distributed.

It's probably too niche to be worthwhile, but a more exact apportionment might be possible if they used onboard and gateline scans to reconstruct likely journeys, using the systems behind the likes of GTR KeyGo and SWR Tap2Go. Many rangers and rovers are now issued in PRT form with a barcode so this would give a reasonable sample size.

I suppose there is no harm in submitting an FoI request to some of the publicly owned TOCs asking about this, but disclosure would probably be refused based on the commercial interests exemption.

 

[A S Leib]

Would the shares for Interrail and BritRail passes be the same (if based off of the TOC's share of all passengers), or likelier to go more heavily to those with large numbers of Inter- / Britrail passengers?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A supplementary question might be, do TOCs, who only ever offer Standard Class accommodation, get any revenue from the sale of a First Class All Line Rover, and, if so, how this is apportioned?

 

[185143]

A supplementary question might be, do TOCs, who only ever offer Standard Class accommodation, get any revenue from the sale of a First Class All Line Rover, and, if so, how this is apportioned?

They should do, given it's perfectly valid to use one in Standard. I'd imagine the percentage of All Line Rovers which get used on CrossRail, for example, to be fairly high.

Likewise Chiltern, although they do now have 1st class again.

 

[Haywain]

They should do, given it's perfectly valid to use one in Standard. I'd imagine the percentage of All Line Rovers which get used on CrossRail, for example, to be fairly high.

Likewise Chiltern, although they do now have 1st class again.

And Southeastern. Do Northern have any first class accommodation.

 

[Wallsendmag]

And Southeastern. Do Northern have any first class accommodation.

No

 

[Watershed]

Would the shares for Interrail and BritRail passes be the same (if based off of the TOC's share of all passengers), or likelier to go more heavily to those with large numbers of Inter- / Britrail passengers?

For Interrail the revenue apportionment was historically done based on travel diaries submitted back to Interrail. Nowadays the vast majority of passes are held digitally so the allocation will be even more precise, based on the travel diary each passenger completes to activate and validate their pass.

For BritRail there is no travel diary equivalent so I would imagine distribution would be based along similar lines to an All Line Rover, though there might be adjustments due to the the target market being foreigners making leisure journeys (the usual American tourist tour including the likes of London, York, Edinburgh and Bath) rather than enthuasiasts.

 

[saismee]

Not strictly related, but I saw my first ALR yesterday and I misread it as a 3-in-7 Anglia Plus Flexi-Rover. A bit embarrassing when I asked to see the ticket with dates filled in . Maybe I should wear my glasses more often.

 

[StewartB]

Not strictly related, but I saw my first ALR yesterday and I misread it as a 3-in-7 Anglia Plus Flexi-Rover. A bit embarrassing when I asked to see the ticket with dates filled in . Maybe I should wear my glasses more often.

Is that your first time ever seeing one or just the first time meeting a passenger who was using one?

I remember getting an annual bus ticket back in the day (late 1990s/early 2000s, in Cambridge) and when I presented it to a driver, they said they'd never seen one before at all ... leaving me wondering quietly "so how do you know it's acceptable, then?"

 

[saismee]

Is that your first time ever seeing one or just the first time meeting a passenger who was using one?

I remember getting an annual bus ticket back in the day (late 1990s/early 2000s, in Cambridge) and when I presented it to a driver, they said they'd never seen one before at all ... leaving me wondering quietly "so how do you know it's acceptable, then?"

First time seeing one in person. I believe it was touched upon in my training. When new ticket types/designs come out we aren't exactly given a presentation and examples, we just start seeing them show up.

 

[MrJeeves]

For Interrail the revenue apportionment was historically done based on travel diaries submitted back to Interrail. Nowadays the vast majority of passes are held digitally so the allocation will be even more precise, based on the travel diary each passenger completes to activate and validate their pass.

I don't believe the data the data that Rail Planner uses (converted from the CIF timetable data) includes per-TOC info, and all revenue apportioned to GB travel just goes straight to RDG(/RSP) directly to divvy up how they'd like.

As far as I know, the data behind it attributes all the services to "ATOC".

 

[Andrew1395]

LENNON uses agreed allocation factors for Rover products as sales income is apportioned at sale. There will be different Agreed Allocations by product. The product owner manages the factors used by Lennon

 

[styles]

LENNON uses agreed allocation factors for Rover products as sales income is apportioned at sale. There will be different Agreed Allocations by product. The product owner manages the factors used by Lennon

Who is the product owner of ALRs? RDG?

 

[Andrew1395]

RDG (ATOC) manage the scheme. The scheme (participant TOCs who accept the product), technically are the product owner; but yes for practical purposes RDG are the product owner and will seek approval from the scheme members to amend the factors.