Diagrams on the Far North Line

[hexagon789]

I duobt Wick provides all the drivers for the route. There are actually four out and back trips each way. Two of the four* units needed to run the service start the day at Inverness. And since the units take the best part of twelve hours to do the round trip, including layover times, I'm guessing drivers don't go all the way there and back but swap over en route.

We do know, from the accounts of the stops on 1/3/24, that the driver of the first northbound train (the second to be stopped) was not driving that unit when it came back from Wick three hours later (to be stopped as the third train), as Appleby refers to these two drivers by different personal pronouns.

* actually six, as the units that start the day at Wick are not the same as those that end the day there.

If it makes any difference, both Wick and Inverness depots sign the entire Far North Line.

 

[norbitonflyer]

If it makes any difference, both Wick and Inverness depots sign the entire Far North Line.

Are there lodging turns?

 

[hexagon789]

Are there lodging turns?

Don't believe so.

I don't think ScotRail does lodging.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

From previous threads, the drivers and guards no longer swap mid-point but go all the way through. Things do change though.

 

[greatkingrat]

I can't see how the diagrams work without swapping part way. The 0618 from Wick arrives in Inverness at 1039. The crew couldn't work the 1041 from Inverness, and the next train isn't until 1400 which seems too late?

 

[norbitonflyer]

From previous threads, the drivers and guards no longer swap mid-point but go all the way

I can't see how the diagrams work without swapping part way. The 0618 from Wick arrives in Inverness at 1039. The crew couldn't work the 1041 from Inverness, and the next train isn't until 1400 which seems too late?

Indeed, looking at the timetable it's impossible to do the round trip in less than ten hours, and often twelve.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I can't see how the diagrams work without swapping part way. The 0618 from Wick arrives in Inverness at 1039. The crew couldn't work the 1041 from Inverness, and the next train isn't until 1400 which seems too late?

I think the first southbound is a crew swap at Lairg, the second and third are full route out and back, and the last one is a swap at Invergordon

 

[Twingo37175]

I don't know if this is still the case, but from searching on here - I noticed the following was posted a couple of years ago (swapped on the first run, but then the next 3 in both directions are full route runs 2 from Wick and 1 from Inverness).

The FNL timetable is confusing me too. For normal operation the staffing works like this:

0618 WCK-INV - Wick crew, swap at Lairg with 0700 INV-WCK
0802 WCK-INV - Wick crew
1234 WCK-INV - Wick crew
1600 - Inverness crew from 1041 INV-WCK

0700 INV-WCK - Inverness crew, swap at Lairg with crew of 0618 WCK-INV
1041 INV-WCK - Inverness crew who then operate 1600 WCK-INV
1400 INV-WCK - Wick crew who operated 0802 WCK-INV
1831 INV-WCK - Wick crew who operated 1234 WCK-INV

 

[styles]

I can't speak for all the crew but I got speaking to one of the catering lads last time I was on this line and he said he stayed at Wick, goes down to Inverness in the morning, has a two hour long break in Inverness, then comes back to Wick in the evening. Long days (10 hours or more) but gets a good on-off shift pattern out of it.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Indeed, looking at the timetable it's impossible to do the round trip in less than ten hours, and often twelve.

wick	lairg	lairg	wick
0618	0852	0853	1131	5h 13m
wick	inverness	inverness	wick
0802	1227	1400	1822	10h 20m
1234	1708	1831	2253	10h 19m
inverness	wick	wick	inverness
1041	1456	1600	2013	9h 32m

 

[InkyScrolls]

I don't know if this is still the case, but from searching on here - I noticed the following was posted a couple of years ago (swapped on the first run, but then the next 3 in both directions are full route runs 2 from Wick and 1 from Inverness).

The FNL timetable is confusing me too. For normal operation the staffing works like this:

0618 WCK-INV - Wick crew, swap at Lairg with 0700 INV-WCK
0802 WCK-INV - Wick crew
1234 WCK-INV - Wick crew
1600 - Inverness crew from 1041 INV-WCK

0700 INV-WCK - Inverness crew, swap at Lairg with crew of 0618 WCK-INV
1041 INV-WCK - Inverness crew who then operate 1600 WCK-INV
1400 INV-WCK - Wick crew who operated 0802 WCK-INV
1831 INV-WCK - Wick crew who operated 1234 WCK-INV

This is correct! I spoke to a Wick driver a couple of weeks ago.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I don't know if this is still the case, but from searching on here - I noticed the following was posted a couple of years ago (swapped on the first run, but then the next 3 in both directions are full route runs 2 from Wick and 1 from Inverness).

The FNL timetable is confusing me too. For normal operation the staffing works like this:

0618 WCK-INV - Wick crew, swap at Lairg with 0700 INV-WCK
0802 WCK-INV - Wick crew
1234 WCK-INV - Wick crew
1600 - Inverness crew from 1041 INV-WCK

0700 INV-WCK - Inverness crew, swap at Lairg with crew of 0618 WCK-INV
1041 INV-WCK - Inverness crew who then operate 1600 WCK-INV
1400 INV-WCK - Wick crew who operated 0802 WCK-INV
1831 INV-WCK - Wick crew who operated 1234 WCK-INV

So the service requires five crews, three from Wick and one from Inverness (one of which does not go beyond Lairg). Assuming a similar timetable and rostering in 2024, the four trains which were stopped at ABC on 1/3/24 were the 0802 Wick- Inv, 0700 inv-(Lairg)-Wick, 1234 Wick-Inv, and 1041 Inv Wick, which all had different crews - the first three from Wick, and the last one from Inverness. How many drivers does Wick have?

(EDITED to provide context as the thread has been split)

 

[RiverDon]

How many drivers does Wick have?

There are 11 in the contact list on the company intranet.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

wick	lairg	lairg	wick
0618	0852	0853	1131	5h 13m
wick	inverness	inverness	wick
0802	1227	1400	1822	10h 20m
1234	1708	1831	2253	10h 19m
inverness	wick	wick	inverness
1041	1456	1600	2013	9h 32m

With book on prep and disposal allowances the two long Wick based diagrams will possibly stretch beyond eleven hours (or a tleast very close to eleven) so working three days on either comes close to a 35 hour week (assuming Scotrail Drivers are on 35 hrs) meaning four drivers will be required just to cover these two turns across six days, potentailly one driver could work six days on the early turn, although all the turns might be spread across the link but either way spares will need to be long enough to stretch to these hours within whatever the Scotrail terms are whilst also recognising the need for twelve hours rest between turns.
The hours of individual lines (weeks) in the link can vary as long as an average of 35 hours in achieved across the link.

There are 11 in the contact list on the company intranet.

Maybe someone on long term sick and or in training - the latter especially if anyone is approaching retirement? Or just very robust cover for a very remote depot.

 

[reb0118]

In general there is a ten hour maximum (and 7½ hour minimum) turn length with ScotRail for operational train crew diagrams.

However, this does not apply to the remote rural depots such as Kyle, Wick, & Mallaig (potentially others too such as Oban, Fort William, & Stranraer).

 

[Cheshire Scot]

In general there is a ten hour maximum (and 7½ hour minimum) turn length with ScotRail for operational train crew diagrams.

However, this does not apply to the remote rural depots such as Kyle, Wick, & Mallaig (potentially others too such as Oban, Fort William, & Stranraer).

Useful info, I did have it in the back of my mind rural depots do have some variation on Terms and conditions. and the long Inverness based turn presumably just scrapes in within 10 hours.

 

[trentside]

Maybe someone on long term sick and or in training - the latter especially if anyone is approaching retirement? Or just very robust cover for a very remote depot.

The compliment seems about right for a depot with 3/4 turns. It allows for spare coverage as well. There’s also the potential for part time drivers on job shares or similar.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

There’s also the potential for part time drivers on job shares or similar.

A very good point.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I don't know if this is still the case, but from searching on here - I noticed the following was posted a couple of years ago (swapped on the first run, but then the next 3 in both directions are full route runs 2 from Wick and 1 from Inverness).

The FNL timetable is confusing me too. For normal operation the staffing works like this:

0618 WCK-INV - Wick crew, swap at Lairg with 0700 INV-WCK
0802 WCK-INV - Wick crew
1234 WCK-INV - Wick crew
1600 - Inverness crew from 1041 INV-WCK

0700 INV-WCK - Inverness crew, swap at Lairg with crew of 0618 WCK-INV
1041 INV-WCK - Inverness crew who then operate 1600 WCK-INV
1400 INV-WCK - Wick crew who operated 0802 WCK-INV
1831 INV-WCK - Wick crew who operated 1234 WCK-INV

This is correct.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Hi
As i'm up here on a FoS 8/15, for the sake of completeness, here's my understanding of the Crewing arrangements for the Kyle Line.
This is from my own observations, feel free to correct me if wrong
No crew swaps anywhere
0855 INV - KYL INV Crew who then work 1216 return
1056 INV - KYL KYL Crew from 0545 ex KYL
1335 INV - KYL INV Crew who work 1713 return
1754 INV - KYL KYL Crew from 1346 ex KYL

 

[InkyScrolls]

Hi
As i'm up here on a FoS 8/15, for the sake of completeness, here's my understanding of the Crewing arrangements for the Kyle Line.
This is from my own observations, feel free to correct me if wrong
No crew swaps anywhere
0855 INV - KYL INV Crew who then work 1216 return
1056 INV - KYL KYL Crew from 0545 ex KYL
1335 INV - KYL INV Crew who work 1713 return
1754 INV - KYL KYL Crew from 1346 ex KYL

This is correct.

 

[whoosh]

Generally Scotrail traincrew are on a four day week, but this doesn't always apply to rural depots. Kyle of Lochalsh are likely to be on a five day week, and Wick a less than four day week.
Also, it's possible that the early shift at Wick (who work the 0618) come in earlier and prep both the 0618 which they work, and the unit for the 0802 as well, making the short job a bit longer and making the long late morning job not be unnecessarily longer.*

*Eight o'clock in the morning is considered 'late' morning on the railway!

 

[InkyScrolls]

Generally Scotrail traincrew are on a four day week, but this doesn't always apply to rural depots. Kyle of Lochalsh are likely to be on a five day week, and Wick a less than four day week.
Also, it's possible that the early shift at Wick (who work the 0618) come in earlier and prep both the 0618 which they work, and the unit for the 0802 as well, making the short job a bit longer and making the long late morning job not be unnecessarily longer.*

*Eight o'clock in the morning is considered 'late' morning on the railway!

I would highly doubt the crew of the 0618 also prep the 0802, except potentially doing a door test, which would save ~5 minutes for the 0802 crew.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I would highly doubt the crew of the 0618 also prep the 0802, except potentially doing a door test, which would save ~5 minutes for the 0802 crew.

They don't.

 

[InkyScrolls]

They don't.

As I suspected then!

 

[prasa]

Hi there, not Far North Line - but does anyone have any observations about Maliag diagrams - do all their turns work Maliag - Crianlarich, bar the last?

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Hi there, not Far North Line - but does anyone have any observations about Maliag diagrams - do all their turns work Maliag - Crianlarich, bar the last?

M-F both turns work Mallaig - Crianlarich and back.
Weekends are different.

 

[skyetraveller]

Hi
As i'm up here on a FoS 8/15, for the sake of completeness, here's my understanding of the Crewing arrangements for the Kyle Line.
This is from my own observations, feel free to correct me if wrong
No crew swaps anywhere
0855 INV - KYL INV Crew who then work 1216 return
1056 INV - KYL KYL Crew from 0545 ex KYL
1335 INV - KYL INV Crew who work 1713 return
1754 INV - KYL KYL Crew from 1346 ex KYL

That's broadly correct, but in the case of the 0855 INV-KYL, the conductor works the 1206 back but the driver has a just over two hour break in Kyle and works the 1346 back. The 1206 is driven by a Kyle driver who then works back on the 1754 ex Inverness.

Back to the Far North, what do the Wick crews do during the current three week blockade? Are they forced to take three weeks of their holiday allowance?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Back to the Far North, what do the Wick crews do during the current three week blockade? Are they forced to take three weeks of their holiday allowance?

I don't work for ScotRail, but at my TOC, on the odd occasion all lines through my home depot are shut due to engineering works, typically we'd all just revert to sitting spare. In reality, that would mean sign on and get told to go home if nothing is running at all.

I suspect it may be similar at ScotRail?

 

[800002]

I don't work for ScotRail, but at my TOC, on the odd occasion all lines through my home depot are shut due to engineering works, typically we'd all just revert to sitting spare. In reality, that would mean sign on and get told to go home if nothing is running at all.

I suspect it may be similar at ScotRail?

They'd be going spare each day if they weren't diagrammed any work, within the depot Ts and Cs.