What happens if outgoing Advance Single is cancelled?

[strawbrick]

I have an outgoing GWR Advance Single for next Monday afternoon and another one for my return on the following Thursday morning. The tickets were bought in the same transaction.

• The booking confirmation refers to "1 journey".
• The tickets state that "This ticket is not transferable, but is exchangeable for a fee before travel."

In the unlikely event that the outgoing journey is cancelled:

• Can I travel on any later train that day or on the next day without an additional fare?
• If the answer is no what refund will I get for the outgoing trip?

If the outgoing train is cancelled Is the return journey automatically cancelled or do I do it myself, and what refund will I get?

Many thanks for your assistance.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A supplementary question. If the OP does decide to travel, but on a later (outward) train service than that which was booked originally, is there potentially any entitlement to 'Delay Repay'?

 

[Sonic1234]

If your train is cancelled you can take the next train after your booked train with no extra charge. This is guaranteed in the terms and conditions and you don't need special permission to do this. On some operators, they allow you to take a train +/- 2 hours of your booked service. Alternatively, you can get a refund for your ticket (including the return Advance ticket) with no fee.

If you do travel and arrive late, you may be eligible for Delay Repay compensation (a partial refund of your ticket).

 

[yorkie]

I have an outgoing GWR Advance Single for next Monday afternoon and another one for my return on the following Thursday morning. The tickets were bought in the same transaction.

• The booking confirmation refers to "1 journey".
• The tickets state that "This ticket is not transferable, but is exchangeable for a fee before travel."

In the unlikely event that the outgoing journey is cancelled:

• Can I travel on any later train that day or on the next day without an additional fare?
• If the answer is no what refund will I get for the outgoing trip?

If the outgoing train is cancelled Is the return journey automatically cancelled or do I do it myself, and what refund will I get?

Many thanks for your assistance.

You can get a refund on both legs, if you choose not to travel. It should be straightforward, depending on the retailer (it certainly should be, if you booked with the forum's ticketing site!)

 

[Haywain]

If you do travel and arrive late, you may be eligible for Delay Repay compensation (a partial refund of your ticket).

It's not a partial refund, it is compensation. Refunds come from retailers but Delay Repay compensation comes from the responsible train operator.

 

[A S Leib]

Alternatively, you can get a refund for your ticket (including the return Advance ticket) with no fee.

You can get a refund on both legs, if you choose not to travel. It should be straightforward, depending on the retailer (it certainly should be, if you booked with the forum's ticketing site!)

I didn't know that you could get a refund on an inbound advance leg as well if the outbound's cancelled. Does that extend to additional tickets, such as, for example, getting (fee-free?) refunds for a Manchester to York off-peak day single and a York to Edinburgh advance if a journey with an Edinburgh to Manchester advance ticket is cancelled?

 

[Watershed]

The tickets state that "This ticket is not transferable, but is exchangeable for a fee before travel."

Presumably you meant non-refundable? As with most single/return tickets, Advance tickets are transferable - i.e. you can give or even sell them to someone else, provided it's for no more than face value.

• Can I travel on any later train that day or on the next day without an additional fare?

You are automatically allowed to take the 2 trains before or afterwards under the latest version of the National Rail Conditions of Travel. You don't need to do anything to take advantage of this rule. If there is widespread disruption there may be ticket acceptance allowing you to travel on a wider range of trains than this.

If the delay in arriving at your destination by waiting for the next train is expected to be 61+ minutes, you are also entitled to require the relevant operator (i.e. GWR) to change your ticket for free to a different date of your convenience. However you must get your ticket reissued or endorsed for this, which there isn't a very clear process for - you can't simply board another service on a different day with your existing ticket.

• If the answer is no what refund will I get for the outgoing trip?

You can claim a full refund from the retailer if you no longer want to travel. If you still want to travel and are delayed, you can instead claim Delay Repay compensation from the operator (i.e. GWR).

If the outgoing train is cancelled Is the return journey automatically cancelled or do I do it myself, and what refund will I get?

Your return ticket won't be automatically refunded since you are perfectly entitled to still travel if you want.

However, if there is disruption to the outward journey and you choose not to travel, you can apply for a refund on both tickets as they were booked as part of a single transaction. You would be entitled to a full refund on both.

 

[Sonic1234]

I didn't know that you could get a refund on an inbound advance leg as well if the outbound's cancelled

You can. If it's booked in one transaction, should be no problem. If booked separately or with different retailers, it's possible but may be a bit of a fight.

For the more complex example, I'd say it depends on your retailer. The forum site: no problems I expect. When I used to use LNER and they had a basket feature, they seemed to favour refunding whole transactions so would happily refund an unrelated ticket bought at the same time rather than split up transactions. Wouldn't expect much luck with Trainpal.

 

[BazingaTribe]

Presumably you meant non-refundable? As with most single/return tickets, Advance tickets are transferable - i.e. you can give or even sell them to someone else, provided it's for no more than face value.


You are automatically allowed to take the 2 trains before or afterwards under the latest version of the National Rail Conditions of Travel. You don't need to do anything to take advantage of this rule. If there is widespread disruption there may be ticket acceptance allowing you to travel on a wider range of trains than this.

Yes -- I went to Cardiff in May and travelled on the day signalling failures snarled up the whole network. No one was questioning anything.

 

[AM9]

It's not a partial refund, it is compensation. Refunds come from retailers but Delay Repay compensation comes from the responsible train operator.

Delay Repay is a partial (or full) refund* because payment is based on the fare that the traveller has paid, irrespective of who in the rail industry pays for it. If it was compensation, the payment would be based on the customer's actual loss including a contribution for stress etc.. An example would be somebody travelling to a family event, e.g wedding or an expensive sports of entertainment event.

The actual loss suffered by the traveller caused by a serious delay would be the same whether the ticket was a full price Anytime or the cheapest of Advances, i.e. it might involve completely missing the event of even just being refused admission. Compensation in those circumstances could easily exceed that of the full price ticket(s) let alone a cheap Advance.

I don't have an issue with the actual DR scheme as it operates, but it is factually inaccurate (but probably commercially convenient) to call it 'compensation'.

* Moderator note: this is not correct; Delay Repay is compensation, not a refund

 

[Wallsendmag]

Delay Repay is a partial (or full) refund because payment is based on the fare that the traveller has paid, irrespective of who in the rail industry pays for it. If it was compensation, the payment would be based on the customer's actual loss including a contribution for stress etc.. An example would be somebody travelling to a family event, e.g wedding or an expensive sports of entertainment event.
The actual loss suffered by the traveller caused by a serious delay would be the same whether the ticket was a full price Anytime or the cheapest of Advances, i.e. it might involve completely missing the event of even just being refused admission. Compensation in those circumstances could easily exceed that of the full price ticket(s) let alone a cheap Advance.
I don't have an issue with the actual DR scheme as it operates, but it is factually inaccurate (but probably commercially convenient) to call it 'compensation'.

Delay Repay is not and should never be confused with a refund , it is compensation.

 

[blimmo]

Delay Repay is a partial (or full) refund because payment is based on the fare that the traveller has paid, irrespective of who in the rail industry pays for it. If it was compensation, the payment would be based on the customer's actual loss including a contribution for stress etc.. An example would be somebody travelling to a family event, e.g wedding or an expensive sports of entertainment event.
The actual loss suffered by the traveller caused by a serious delay would be the same whether the ticket was a full price Anytime or the cheapest of Advances, i.e. it might involve completely missing the event of even just being refused admission. Compensation in those circumstances could easily exceed that of the full price ticket(s) let alone a cheap Advance.
I don't have an issue with the actual DR scheme as it operates, but it is factually inaccurate (but probably commercially convenient) to call it 'compensation'.

I agree that it is irrelevant who pays it but I disagree that the basis of the calculation makes it a refund. It is entirely reasonable (and is exactly what is happening) to agree to a contract that specifies an amount of compensation in disruption and for that contract to specify the calculation of that amount using the original ticket price.

When it matters whether it is compensation is when asking who gets it: it is always the traveller and not the purchaser.

 

[Watershed]

Delay Repay is a partial (or full) refund because payment is based on the fare that the traveller has paid, irrespective of who in the rail industry pays for it. If it was compensation, the payment would be based on the customer's actual loss including a contribution for stress etc.. An example would be somebody travelling to a family event, e.g wedding or an expensive sports of entertainment event.
The actual loss suffered by the traveller caused by a serious delay would be the same whether the ticket was a full price Anytime or the cheapest of Advances, i.e. it might involve completely missing the event of even just being refused admission. Compensation in those circumstances could easily exceed that of the full price ticket(s) let alone a cheap Advance.
I don't have an issue with the actual DR scheme as it operates, but it is factually inaccurate (but probably commercially convenient) to call it 'compensation'.

Delay Repay is a form of contractual liquidated damages, i.e. an agreed sum of compensation for breach of contract. Not every form of compensation is necessarily proportional to the loss incurred.

Because Delay Repay and refunds are separate processes handled by different entities it is highly confusing to refer to Delay Repay as a refund, so I suggest avoiding this.

 

[AM9]

Because Delay Repay and refunds are separate processes handled by different entities it is highly confusing to refer to Delay Repay as a refund, so I suggest avoiding this.

It's only confusing to those inside the rail industry. To claimants its a proportion of the paid fare, obtained (if they are lucky) from a part of the railway whose train you were on or expecting to be on when that prevented a timely arrival when making the journey. The proportion returned depends on certain rules but the actual sum depends on the original ticket cost.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's only confusing to those inside the rail industry. To claimants its a proportion of the paid fare, obtained (if they are lucky) from a part of the railway whose train you were on or expecting to be on when that prevented a timely arrival when making the journey. The proportion returned depends on certain rules but the actual sum depends on the original ticket cost.

It'll be confusing to people outside the industry too once they get slapped with a fraud allegation for refunding a used ticket. Which does happen.