Huge gaps in Stevenage to London services: LNER won't help (19/06)

[yorkie]

This evening every GTR train between Kings Cross and Cambridge has been cancelled. In addition, the Brighton to Cambridge trains are also cancelled leaving just the twice hourly trains between Horsham and Peterborough operating on the GN lines north of London. In addition, displaced EMR and GTR passengers from the MML, whose journeys have been disrupted by the tragic events at Bedford, are also using the Horsham to Peterborough trains.

Despite this, LNER have not lifted pick-up and set down only restrictions at Stevenage even though trains heading north from Kings Cross were departing with many empty seats. When pick-up and set down restrictions were introduced at Stevenage LNER said acceptance would be put in place when there was disruption. This hasn't happened today, LNER train managers are announcing trains as not valid for travel to Stevenage and nothing about acceptance is being displayed on the departure boards at Kings Cross.

 

[Magdalia]

This evening every GTR train between Kings Cross and Cambridge has been cancelled. In addition, the Brighton to Cambridge trains are also cancelled leaving just the twice hourly trains between Horsham and Peterborough operating on the GN lines north of London.

This isn't what my sources are saying. The Thameslink core is closed but Thameslink are running two trains per hour both Kings Cross-Cambridge and Kings Cross-Peterborough.

 

[Jan Mayen]

This isn't what my sources are saying. The Thameslink core is closed but Thameslink are running two trains per hour both Kings Cross-Cambridge and Kings Cross-Peterborough.

Was the Thameslink core closed yesterday evening?

 

[bramling]

This isn't what my sources are saying. The Thameslink core is closed but Thameslink are running two trains per hour both Kings Cross-Cambridge and Kings Cross-Peterborough.

Whenever I was glancing at OTT maps yesterday evening there didn’t seem to be many trains running, and when I went out for a walk in the evening the railway was likewise conspicuously devoid of GTR trains. This also seems to have continued into this morning, with multiple cancellations on the Cambridge route, though it seems better now. If there was a plan to run something then it doesn’t seem to have proven very effective in practice.

 

[Magdalia]

Was the Thameslink core closed yesterday evening?

No, though there was a very reduced service as a consequence of the Bedford collision.

Today is planned engineering work, so should be ok apart from any traincrew issues left over from yesterday.

 

[yorkie]

This isn't what my sources are saying. The Thameslink core is closed but Thameslink are running two trains per hour both Kings Cross-Cambridge and Kings Cross-Peterborough.

Are you defending LNER?

Who/what is your source (roughly; if it's a confidential source I respect that)?

Can you list which Kings Cross - Cambridge trains ran, and which called at Stevenage?

This appears to be the KGX to SVG situation:


(Image shows all GTR KGX-SVG trains cancelled from ~1927-2130, with just one LNER service at 2003 calling )

And for STP to SVG, there were huge gaps, e.g. nothing from 2019 to 2143, and with additional stops added to trains that did run:


If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested to see it.

 

[yorkie]

No, though there was a very reduced service as a consequence of the Bedford collision.

You seem to be ignoring the issue between Hitchin and Cambridge.

 

[Magdalia]

Are you defending LNER?

No. I misunderstood: I thought that you were referring to this evening, not yesterday.

 

[jon0844]

It looks like there were 2Zxx trains running between Cambridge and Stevenage but to/from London I think there were buses brought in, and for everyone else taxis were booked until this morning. For a while there were 9Jxx Peterborough trains doing extra stops, but I'm sure they 'ran out' eventually due to units stuck south of London.

This morning it seems a lot of trains were still out of position, with a lot of cancellations and some KGX services starting from WGC instead of Cambridge or Letchworth.

 

[Abpj17]

Yesterday every* train to Hitchin out of KX was cancelled - I was looking for an alternative route as I live in Luton. In the end, I opted to get a train from Euston out to Milton Keynes to stay with a relative.

*I couldn't see one running - one or two may have snuck through but it didn't look promising

 

[Failed Unit]

I was travelling yesterday (early evening)

GTR control was mixed. Everything to Cambridge was cancelled. They did intend to stop all the Peterborough services at Welwyn Garden City, Welwyn North, Knebworth additionally. They started doing this (but not telling anyone at Blackfriars). I took the 1630 service to Welwyn Garden City. It got stock behind a broken down train at Potters Bar so arrived at WGC about 1745.

What people didn’t know at the time was about Bedford which had blocked up the Thameslink Core. So for about 1 hour in the mid evening the only service out of London was LNER and the Moorgate services. At Yorkie said it was odd that nationalised LNER wouldn’t help.

 

[yorkie]

Yesterday every* train to Hitchin out of KX was cancelled - I was looking for an alternative route as I live in Luton. In the end, I opted to get a train from Euston out to Milton Keynes to stay with a relative.

*I couldn't see one running - one or two may have snuck through but it didn't look promising

There were trains running, albeit at greatly reduced frequency. If in doubt, create a thread here.

Also if I ever need to get to Stevenage/Hitchin and there were no advertised trains, I would be getting on an LNER whether they like it or not.

 

[jon0844]

LNER usually accepts other users during disruption but I wonder if the code black meant they decided not to?

 

[gabrielhj07]

LNER usually accepts other users during disruption but I wonder if the code black meant they decided not to?

If anything it should mean the opposite.

 

[Hadders]

The issue isn’t about LNER general ticket acceptance, but whether during severe disruption LNER should be making their calls at Stevenage open calls rather than pick-up/set down only.

 

[cactustwirly]

The issue isn’t about LNER general ticket acceptance, but whether during severe disruption LNER should be making their calls at Stevenage open calls rather than pick-up/set down only.

They should remove the restrictions as they are ridiculous anyway

 

[jon0844]

They should remove the restrictions as they are ridiculous anyway

Then they'd presumably need to let people travel with contactless, which I'm pretty sure is the key reason they'd done this.

 

[Failed Unit]

Then they'd presumably need to let people travel with contactless, which I'm pretty sure is the key reason they'd done this.

Why when both ends of the journey are barried.(won’t go into they rarely check tickets anyway)

I get they don’t want full and standing for the first 20 minutes. However surely now we are in GBR on both operators revenue doesn’t matter as much? Likewise accepting on LNER must be better then paying compensation on GTR

 

[Failed Unit]

That is my big hope for GB rail. They let all ticket produce bs used everywhere. Including keygo to Peterborough and Cambridge.

 

[jon0844]

Why when both ends of the journey are barried.(won’t go into they rarely check tickets anyway)

I get they don’t want full and standing for the first 20 minutes. However surely now we are in GBR on both operators revenue doesn’t matter as much? Likewise accepting on LNER must be better then paying compensation on GTR

I can see how they don't want commuters just hopping on the train to go one stop, and of course they now appear to want you to have a reservation so contactless really isn't good for that sort of thing. The whole LNER ticketing system and doing away with super off-peak tickets so people can be truly flexible without paying a fortune is a mess and I hate it. Suggesting that a ticket you can use 70 minutes before or after is not the same, even if you use the word flex(ible). But that's indeed for the other extremely long thread!

I know when there's been issues before that LNER will accept passengers, but they appear to do it on an adhoc basis. There's no automatic ticket acceptance on all services until further notice, and it certainly isn't the same as it once was.

Will the DfT change this going forward? Who knows, but personally when there's disruption the only goal is to get people moving. Of course some people will be upset if a train suddenly gets potentially crush loaded, but I can remember getting home on July 7th 2005 and trains were running as shuttles in and out of Finsbury Park. People queued up and got the next available train, of which I think all ran as all-station stoppers. People got on, it was tight, it was hot, but people just got on with it. Real Dunkirk spirit vibes.

 

[Failed Unit]

Also recently LNER should remember GTR are more likely to be accepting their tickets with any failure north of Peterborough. The GTR services in the peak are pretty full but again as you say getting people moving on a crush loaded train is better then them at King’s Cross.

 

[Hadders]

Am interesting development today as LNER has removed pick-up and set down only restriction at Stevenage.

I don’t know if this is an error in short term train planning due to the heatwave, a way of keeping people moving given the disruption caused by the heat or a permanent arrangement. But whatever the reason well done to LNER.

 

[Segedunum]

Am interesting development today as LNER has removed pick-up and set down only restriction at Stevenage.

I don’t know if this is an error in short term train planning due to the heatwave, a way of keeping people moving given the disruption caused by the heat or a permanent arrangement. But whatever the reason well done to LNER.

I can confirm this is deliberate. Not permanent but due to the heatwave related disruption.

 

[Hadders]

I can confirm this is deliberate. Not permanent but due to the heatwave related disruption.

It's good that LNER has done this but they really should be more pragmatic about this when there is disruption. In normal operation it would be better if they followed what Greater Anglia do at Stratford where there is pick-up and set down restrictions but in practice they aren't enforced.

 

[Instinct04]

It's good that LNER has done this but they really should be more pragmatic about this when there is disruption. In normal operation it would be better if they followed what Greater Anglia do at Stratford where there is pick-up and set down restrictions but in practice they aren't enforced.

But if too many people caught onto it not being enforced, then surely it would render it pointless no?

 

[Hadders]

But if too many people caught onto it not being enforced, then surely it would render it pointless no?

Why would it be pointless?

 

[Instinct04]

Why would it be pointless?

I’m just saying that if the pick up/set down restrictions at Stevenage on LNER were not enforced, just how GA don’t enforce it at Stratford then people may soon realise this and board southbound LNER trains at Stevenage anyway.

Thus rendering it, okay not “pointless” but much less useful that it could have been if it were to stay enforced like it is now.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It "should be" that in the event of disruption, operators "should" cooperate with one another and have ticket acceptance. I don't travel north of London often so have no first-hand regular experience

 

[yorkie]

They should remove the restrictions as they are ridiculous anyway

I doubt LNER would agree to this; some of their Train Managers (a minority) absolutely love enforcing this and won't want to give up this power

Then they'd presumably need to let people travel with contactless, which I'm pretty sure is the key reason they'd done this.

Many people suspect that LNER were looking to do it for that reason, despite this not having any logic or legitimacy.

But the reason the public were given is that there isn't time in the new timetable.

My experience of the new timetable is that there is no such justification, however the people who decide these sorts of things tend to isolate themselves in offices and aren't exactly pro-passenger.

I wouldn't mind them doing the GA approach, but the current approach is madness.

But if too many people caught onto it not being enforced, then surely it would render it pointless no?

Are you saying GA policy is pointless and do you have any actual evidence of this?

On the contrary, GA's approach works perfectly; London bound trains can depart early if the are able to, while in the other direction very few people use those trains to get to Stratford and don't take up seats of longer distance passengers.

Dwell times are not prolonged and there are no arguments. If anything, LNER's confrontational approach risks creating pointless arguments which could delay the train.

However going back many decades, the GA route has always been more customer focussed and relaxed than the long standing heavy handed approach taken by LNER and it's predecessors.

It's a deep rooted cultural issue that I can't see ever changing.

 

[Hadders]

There’s been significant disruption on the GN side of GTR’s network today.

Cambridge to Brighton trains cancelled along with the Cambridge to Kings Cross stopping service.

LNER said that when there was significant disruption they would convey passengers between London and Stevenage.

This didn’t happen today.