Cancellations on Blackpool South line on Sundays

[Acathater]

Is there any issues from Preston to colne with cancellation or is it just the Preston - Blackpool South

It's the same train......if one part is cancelled the rest is at risk

 

[Watershed]

Is there any issues from Preston to colne with cancellation or is it just the Preston - Blackpool South . Also is the Blackburn - Victoria via Accrington generally reliable on a Sunday . Only reason I ask is I’m travelling that journey tomorrow

Preston-Colne, Preston-Blackpool South and Preston-Ormskirk (the latter hasn't run on Sundays for decades) are all part of the same service group effectively and are worked by the same drivers, guards and units. All are at high risk of cancellation.

The only silver lining is that Preston-Blackburn is also covered by the Blackpool North-York service, which is partially crewed by East side drivers/conductors who have Sundays in their working week.

 

[Flying Claret]

On Sundays it runs as Colne -Blackpool South, rather than Colne -Preston. I assume that's because, as @Watershed States, there is no Ormskirk service.

Accy,-Victoria does have some issues on Sundays... but they always cancel them early in the day so you don't get caught out.

Blackpoo-York generally runs fine, but they can get very busy.

 

[dk1]

From what I can see there are only 5 cancellations and 2 part cancellations on the entire Northern network currently today and none of them are affecting the Preston-Blackpool routes. They are all traincrew related but that seems extremely good to me.

 

[Pnerick81]

Preston-Colne, Preston-Blackpool South and Preston-Ormskirk (the latter hasn't run on Sundays for decades) are all part of the same service group effectively and are worked by the same drivers, guards and units. All are at high risk of cancellation.

The only silver lining is that Preston-Blackburn is also covered by the Blackpool North-York service, which is partially crewed by East side drivers/conductors who have Sundays in their working week.

Thanks . As I’m travelling from bamber bridge . The york train isn’t a possibility. As I guess if cancelled I would have to use a northern . Which would probably mean to Preston . If the Victoria one is cancelled when at Blackburn there is the one via Bolton I could use .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2026 ==

From what I can see there are only 5 cancellations and 2 part cancellations on the entire Northern network currently today and none of them are affecting the Preston-Blackpool routes. They are all traincrew related but that seems extremely good to me.

That’s reassuring up to now . Thank you

 

[td97]

From what I can see there are only 5 cancellations and 2 part cancellations on the entire Northern network currently today and none of them are affecting the Preston-Blackpool routes. They are all traincrew related but that seems extremely good to me.

Are you forgetting that the standard Sunday timetable is in fact an emergency timetable, with severely curtailed service frequencies and routes?

 

[dk1]

Are you forgetting that the standard Sunday timetable is in fact an emergency timetable, with severely curtailed service frequencies and routes?

Probably but it looked good

 

[Killingworth]

Are you forgetting that the standard Sunday timetable is in fact an emergency timetable, with severely curtailed service frequencies and routes?

I've heard it suggested that 40% of December 2024 timetabled Northern Sunday services in the North West are suspended from the timetable currently being operated.

There was lots on at Edale today beginning at 8.00 with the start of the Montane Spine Race, 268 mile's to Kirk Yetholm in the Scottish Borders. It was Edale's annual Country Day from 11.30 - 4.30 and there was also a major Fell Race at 13.00.

Sadly the train service to Edale from Manchester today wasn't as helpful as it should have been. Surviving departures from the base hourly timetable ran at 7.45, 9.31 and 12.45. From Sheffield it was 9.14, 11.15 and 14.14 (supplemented by a new EMR stop from their 10.38). All were very busy.

Car parks were packed.

 

[GordonT]

I've heard it suggested that 40% of December 2024 timetabled Northern Sunday services in the North West are suspended from the timetable currently being operated
............ Sadly the train service to Edale from Manchester today wasn't as helpful as it should have been. .
Car parks were packed.

It's particularly unfortunate that the longstanding unsatisfactory Sunday coverage regime continues to prevail in the teeth of significantly greater actual and latent demand for Sunday travel. In some cases even the full 2024 timetables were a throwback to past days of fairly "frugal" Sunday public transport provision and it's sad that this provision has had to be pared back further rather than improved. Unfortunately I can't imagine that things will change for the better in my lifetime.

 

[dk1]

It's particularly unfortunate that the longstanding unsatisfactory Sunday coverage regime continues to prevail in the teeth of significantly greater actual and latent demand for Sunday travel. In some cases even the full 2024 timetables were a throwback to past days of fairly "frugal" Sunday public transport provision and it's sad that this provision has had to be pared back further rather than improved. Unfortunately I can't imagine that things will change for the better in my lifetime.

I just can’t see how they can. More money is just a higher percentage of 40% tax. Has to come through better T&Cs but where & how?

 

[Pnerick81]

Preston-Colne, Preston-Blackpool South and Preston-Ormskirk (the latter hasn't run on Sundays for decades) are all part of the same service group effectively and are worked by the same drivers, guards and units. All are at high risk of cancellation.

The only silver lining is that Preston-Blackburn is also covered by the Blackpool North-York service, which is partially crewed by East side drivers/conductors who have Sundays in their

I've heard it suggested that 40% of December 2024 timetabled Northern Sunday services in the North West are suspended from the timetable currently being operated.

There was lots on at Edale today beginning at 8.00 with the start of the Montane Spine Race, 268 mile's to Kirk Yetholm in the Scottish Borders. It was Edale's annual Country Day from 11.30 - 4.30 and there was also a major Fell Race at 13.00.

Sadly the train service to Edale from Manchester today wasn't as helpful as it should have been. Surviving departures from the base hourly timetable ran at 7.45, 9.31 and 12.45. From Sheffield it was 9.14, 11.15 and 14.14 (supplemented by a new EMR stop from their 10.38). All were very busy.

Car parks were packed.

Yet the colne train being used today was a 4 car sprinter set. 156 and 150 . With a lot of the platforms being 2-3 carriage lengths long . And a 4 car set from Blackburn to man vic . Plus a 2 car 156 stabled at Blackburn . It really wasn’t busy . Although Preston to Blackpool South could well be busier .

 

[KnobbyGB]

I'm probably being really naive, but as someone who's never worked on the railway and doesn't even live in the UK any more, can someone explain in lay-mans terms when the problem is with Sunday working? Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way anti-union and certainly not anti-railway or railway workers' rights! When I worked in the UK I was always in a union whenever that was an option. Are the railway unions really that strong that they can totally block these changes, seemingly in perpetuity?

I worked in a supermarket for a while and was lucky enough to be there before regular Sunday working became a 'thing'. When they started opening on Sundays they simply changed the conditions for all new-hires and Sundays were firstly only optional standard overtime (I got double time) and then "forced" overtime and then became part of the normal work schedule. Very few people complained and the union didn't bat an eyelid. I'm guessing there is more of a collective agreement on the railways and that it's a 'buyers market' in that all the companies appear so short of staff that they can't afford to only take people who are willing to work the 'worse' conditions. (I say worse in quotes because, personally, I would much rather work Sunday and have the extra day off in the week).

As I say, I'm all for the rail workers sticking up for their rights - that's the terms they were employed under and they should fight to retain that. However, it's 2026 and this Sunday thing simply has to change in customer facing critical-infrastructure industries such as the railway. There has to be a solution because visiting the UK and trying to use public transport on a Sunday is like stepping back to the 1970s (I usually stay in Ilkley and can't get anywhere before 9am although the Northern services there at least seem to run!)

 

[Tetchytyke]

Very few people complained and the union didn't bat an eyelid. I'm guessing there is more of a collective agreement on the railways and that it's a 'buyers market' in that all the companies appear so short of staff that they can't afford to only take people who are willing to work the 'worse' conditions.

The short answer is that Sundays are voluntary for Northern staff employed in the north west. So if they don't want to work then they won't work. And if too few of them want to work then trains don't run.

Supermarkets simply forced the issue on staff, they recruited some staff specifically for evenings and Sundays (when I worked at Tesco those were my contracted hours) and, gradually, voluntary overtime for the old hands became less voluntary. But supermarkets are employers who hold all the cards and fire-and-rehire is a doddle in that sector; you don't need qualifications and experience to stack shelves or collect trolleys. Tesco can give you a choice of liking it or lumping it. Asda just did yet another round of fire-and-rehire to try and plug the financial gap caused by their dodgy owners.

The TOC could try and do similar but they can't just tell their staff to like it or lump it. The railway is a heavily regulated industry and therefore staff are not cheap to hire, train, or retain. If they tried to go down the fire-and-rehire route then, realistically, they'd not have any staff for at least six months.

That means you need to persuade the staff to agree to any changes in terms and conditions. And that persuasion would be measured in pounds and pence.

Other TOCs (and even Northern in the east and north east) have had that negotiation. Northern in the north west have not. If it were simple then they would have sorted it by now. The current T&Cs predate Northern; Northern has existed since 2005.

 

[TUC]

It really is time the public protested loudly and said. 'We are the customers and the only reason the services exist. Your antiquated employment arrangements are not our problem, and not an acceptable excuse'.

 

[Horizon22]

Are you forgetting that the standard Sunday timetable is in fact an emergency timetable, with severely curtailed service frequencies and routes?

Which is partly the point. Obviously you shouldn’t get there, but if your only real alternative is ad-hoc, short-notice cancellations and large gaps in service, then the current status is preferable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Other TOCs (and even Northern in the east and north east) have had that negotiation. Northern in the north west have not. If it were simple then they would have sorted it by now. The current T&Cs predate Northern; Northern has existed since 2005.

It is simple in a sense - everyone has their price. What's not simple is getting that extra subsidy for an already heavily loss making TOC.

 

[Horizon22]

It really is time the public protested loudly and said. 'We are the customers and the only reason the services exist. Your antiquated employment arrangements are not our problem, and not an acceptable excuse'.

Okay, which tax would you like to see rise to buy out the Sundays?

I’m aware that’s a bit flippant, but that’s the only way it will be solved (money).

 

[david l]

Okay, which tax would you like to see rise to buy out the Sundays?

I’m aware that’s a bit flippant, but that’s the only way it will be solved (money).

They've only had since pre 2005 to sort this out. Perhaps bringing in staff around that time who have now done 20+years on different contracts could have been a start.
Being flippant in response, I presume in certain areas of the country it would have been sorted - if say London had been threatened with a strike for say 1 hour, just saying!

 

[Watershed]

Okay, which tax would you like to see rise to buy out the Sundays?

I’m aware that’s a bit flippant, but that’s the only way it will be solved (money).

Services can absolutely be improved without increasing subsidy. However it would require decisions that are politically unpalatable, e.g. fire and rehire, so we will just continue to see Northern's west side limp on for years, probably indefinitely.

 

[Tetchytyke]

However it would require decisions that are politically unpalatable, e.g. fire and rehire

Fire-and-rehire would be a very quick way of having no services at all in the north for a prolonged period of time.

It is simple in a sense - everyone has their price. What's not simple is getting that extra subsidy for an already heavily loss making TOC.

Definitely, a big enough cheque makes most objections melt away.

But who is going to pay for it? Northern has existed for over 20 years and nobody has wanted to foot the bill.

Perhaps bringing in staff around that time who have now done 20+years on different contracts could have been a start.

How would you have funded that?

 

[Horizon22]

Services can absolutely be improved without increasing subsidy. However it would require decisions that are politically unpalatable, e.g. fire and rehire, so we will just continue to see Northern's west side limp on for years, probably indefinitely.

You’d end up with a strike before you got to that point, which would make the service several multiples worse.

 

[Watershed]

Fire-and-rehire would be a very quick way of having no services at all in the north for a prolonged period of time.

If you take a short-term view as the government always does, yes.

If you take a long-term view, then perhaps the short-term pain is worth it for long-term gain. The northwest has suffered years of pathetic Sunday services; at what point is enough enough?

 

[Horizon22]

They've only had since pre 2005 to sort this out. Perhaps bringing in staff around that time who have now done 20+years on different contracts could have been a start.
Being flippant in response, I presume in certain areas of the country it would have been sorted - if say London had been threatened with a strike for say 1 hour, just saying!

London is regularly threatened with tube strikes, many of which go ahead.

Southern had rolling strikes for nearly 2 years from 2016.

 

[Watershed]

You’d end up with a strike before you got to that point, which would make the service several multiples worse.

Oh yes, no doubt about it. But some drastic action is definitely needed to make anything change. Just dancing on the head of a pin as has happened until now won't help anything.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you take a long-term view, then perhaps the short-term pain is worth it for long-term gain. The northwest has suffered years of pathetic Sunday services; at what point is enough enough?

You talk about short term and long term.

How long do you think the industrial unrest would last if you went with fire-and-rehire? Talk about the nuclear option.

 

[Horizon22]

Oh yes, no doubt about it. But some drastic action is definitely needed to make anything change. Just dancing on the head of a pin as has happened until now won't help anything.

So you’re effectively condoning strikes then? That’s an incredibly anti-worker way of looking at things. Just because things are done like that in other industries does not mean that should be the standard. Northern is also not typical of all TOCs in this regard.

The situation can be resolved, by effectively - I’m simplifying - paying the overtime rate as a salary instead. However that means giving 100% of staff the “Sunday pay” as opposed to say the 80% who work them now. The DfT would rather accept the cancellations and emergency timetables and the economic cost they have rather than resolve this. Who’s thinking short-term now?

This could be fixed with relative ease if there was commitment to do that. Then it’s done and fixed and the issue won’t come back again.

The railway is however by far not the only industry struggling because the money to fix relatively simple issues or commit to growth is not forthcoming.

 

[Killingworth]

The short answer is that Sundays are voluntary for Northern staff employed in the north west. So if they don't want to work then they won't work. And if too few of them want to work then trains don't run.

Supermarkets simply forced the issue on staff, they recruited some staff specifically for evenings and Sundays (when I worked at Tesco those were my contracted hours) and, gradually, voluntary overtime for the old hands became less voluntary. But supermarkets are employers who hold all the cards and fire-and-rehire is a doddle in that sector; you don't need qualifications and experience to stack shelves or collect trolleys. Tesco can give you a choice of liking it or lumping it. Asda just did yet another round of fire-and-rehire to try and plug the financial gap caused by their dodgy owners.

The TOC could try and do similar but they can't just tell their staff to like it or lump it. The railway is a heavily regulated industry and therefore staff are not cheap to hire, train, or retain. If they tried to go down the fire-and-rehire route then, realistically, they'd not have any staff for at least six months.

That means you need to persuade the staff to agree to any changes in terms and conditions. And that persuasion would be measured in pounds and pence.

Other TOCs (and even Northern in the east and north east) have had that negotiation. Northern in the north west have not. If it were simple then they would have sorted it by now. The current T&Cs predate Northern; Northern has existed since 2005.

The world moves on. Supermarkets have evolved since the days of 'Open all hours' corner shops with every item picked from shelves by the shopkeeper. Each pack of butter prepared by hand, each bag of sugar bagged from a sack. The grocers boy on his bike is now the likes of Ocado and the others. Most corner shops have gone, but a few mini-markets have adapted and survived.

We paid with cash requiring banks with strong rooms and security to guard it. Now we have infernal customer contact centres providing 24/7 services even on Bank Holidays. Most bank branches have gone

How does this equate to railways? Not directly but obviously unions are part of it. So is relative lack of direct competition - buses, cars and bikes are more flexible. Other organisations have adapted better to changing times.

I have worked in a Contact Centre. The skills needed there for the majority of workers, possibly all of them, are well below those needed to safely operate trains. However the staffing terms and conditions bear consideration. I recall we had teams working unsocial hours only, some who actually preferred working on Sundays. I did all I could to avoid early mornings but was happy to work Friday late nights. I've spoken to Northern Sunday conductors and know they quite like working them - but that's largely because they pay well.

However this ends up Northern needs to get more conductors to work on Sundays on the busiest routes and asap. One size doesn't fit all but I'd be seriously taking account of those willing to work Sundays and maybe arranging all contracts for new staff to reflect them, with those terms as a voluntary option for existing employees. It may not need all to take up an enhanced Sunday deal.

Against that? Yet more complications! If it were easy it would have been done long ago.

 

[Cell2025]

It really is time the public protested loudly and said. 'We are the customers and the only reason the services exist. Your antiquated employment arrangements are not our problem, and not an acceptable excuse'.

The public are an inconvenience. I'm pretty sure that if it was at all possible the train system in this country would choose to operate without people using them at all. Very much like the hospital in Yes Minister's 'The Compassionate Society' operated without any patients.

Many a word spoken in jest and all that.

 

[KnobbyGB]

However this ends up Northern needs to get more conductors to work on Sundays on the busiest routes and asap. One size doesn't fit all but I'd be seriously taking account of those willing to work Sundays and maybe arranging all contracts for new staff to reflect them, with those terms as a voluntary option for existing employees. It may not need all to take up an enhanced Sunday deal.

I guess that's what I was getting at in my post above. Do all the staff have to be on the same contracts or could new-hires be brought in with more favourable (to the TOC) terms? I don't think anybody is truly proposing fire-and-hire, of course. Is it the unions that won't let this happen or is there a practical reason why it can't be done?

Probably more relevant than supermarkets (even though I was the one to bring that up), due to the level of training and responsibility required - I remember a few years ago when British Airways needed to drastically cut costs and they created a whole new group of cabin crew working on totally different conditions. They had to split the network so certain routes were operated by one group and the rest by the others - the staff couldn't mix. Of course, it caused a lot of unrest to begin with and took a while to sort out, but you have to start somewhere. If not, we'll still be having this discussion in ten years time.

 

[TUC]

Okay, which tax would you like to see rise to buy out the Sundays?

I’m aware that’s a bit flippant, but that’s the only way it will be solved (money).

Very strange how most other businesses have managed to make such changes without raising prices. No, neither customers nor taxpayers should pay more. The rail industry just has to deliver what it promises to deliver. Very, very minimal expectation, and its time the public made the rail industry feel that.