Network SouthEast 40 Year Anniversary

[fgwrich]

Ditto, or should I say, am so old...!

One of my grainy photos I took from my office window at Waterloo in August '86, which (to me) sums up the NSE branding to a tee. Note the old cab road still in situ, this being before the major rebuilding to create space for the International platforms. This and other images I took now donated to the South Western Circle, www.lswr.org

Ohhhh Solari Boards. I can almost hear the near silence and the rush of the ticking as they “slid along” the next train information upon departure. Along with the occasional clunk of an NSE clock of course!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The fact this anniversary is considered worth marking is testament to how relatively successful an operation NSE was. Maybe something GBR should be learning from if not already.

Absolutely. I remember traveling from Preston for a Day Ranger or something similar they offered.

 

[Prime586]

Ditto, or should I say, am so old...!

One of my grainy photos I took from my office window at Waterloo in August '86, which (to me) sums up the NSE branding to a tee. Note the old cab road still in situ, this being before the major rebuilding to create space for the International platforms. This and other images I took now donated to the South Western Circle, www.lswr.org

They stole those arrows on the banners from the period British Aerospace logo.

 

[Leyland Bus]

They stole those arrows on the banners from the period British Aerospace logo.

The banners are advertising "British Aerospace at the Farnborough AirShow"

 

[The exile]

Ohhhh Solari Boards. I can almost hear the near silence and the rush of the ticking as they “slid along” the next train information upon departure. Along with the occasional clunk of an NSE clock of course!

Meant you didn’t have to keep staring at them - merely look after they’d made a noise.

 

[Trackman]

Ditto, or should I say, am so old...!

One of my grainy photos I took from my office window at Waterloo in August '86, which (to me) sums up the NSE branding to a tee. Note the old cab road still in situ, this being before the major rebuilding to create space for the International platforms. This and other images I took now donated to the South Western Circle, www.lswr.org

When they ripped out the departure board at Euston for the new screen, NSE branding could be seen like in the photo above.

 

[Prime586]

The banners are advertising "British Aerospace at the Farnborough AirShow"

So they are! I was confused and thought they were NSE banners as the 'Showing the way' text is in a similar typeface to what was used for the NSE sector logos and the Kent Link Networker branding

 

[Taunton]

The fact this anniversary is considered worth marking is testament to how relatively successful an operation NSE was.

The mid-1980s were just when, on the passenger side, the railway, especially in the NSE area, was starting to rise from its bottom level of patronage decline. There was also a good marketing recognition that monolith BR was too large, but the way privatisation split everything up was too small. Organisation levels like NSE or Inter-City were just right. A bit like the old pre-1948 Big Four, albeit with the cake sliced a different way.

 

[boiledbeans2]

[...] I'd have been interested to know how much confusion it'd have caused at Victoria if both Southern and SouthEastern did the same, [...]

To distinguish them, they could use Network SouthEast and Network SouthCentral**.

**Yes, I know SouthCentral is less than 40 years old, but it's in the same spirit.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

During those first couple of NSE days (June/September 86?) the SW borrowed a fair few DEMU's from New Cross Gate ('The Gate' to some of us) which were booked spare at weekends. Must try and dig out my old pics, but have images of a couple of 6D formations at Poole/Bournemouth, they having been used on additional Bournemouth-Weymouth shuttles, and also captured a 12H on the Up SWML on its way home to NXG after proceedings had finished.
Such borrowing of stock from a neighbouring Division was so easy back then, a simple phone call from a planner in one Divisional office to (what was normally) a 'mate' in another Divisional office, and that was that.

That's the sort of simple co-operation that I suspect is missing these days, and many younger planners of todays railway (I suspect) can only dream of !

Rose tinted to a degree on my part perhaps this far down the line, but it did seem so much simpler back then.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'd hardly got used to the excitement of rolling stock appearing in the 'LASER' jaffa cake livery and then all this NSE red blue and white started to appear everywhere

 

[yorksrob]

During those first couple of NSE days (June/September 86?) the SW borrowed a fair few DEMU's from New Cross Gate ('The Gate' to some of us) which were booked spare at weekends. Must try and dig out my old pics, but have images of a couple of 6D formations at Poole/Bournemouth, they having been used on additional Bournemouth-Weymouth shuttles, and also captured a 12H on the Up SWML on its way home to NXG after proceedings had finished.
Such borrowing of stock from a neighbouring Division was so easy back then, a simple phone call from a planner in one Divisional office to (what was normally) a 'mate' in another Divisional office, and that was that.

That's the sort of simple co-operation that I suspect is missing these days, and many younger planners of todays railway (I suspect) can only dream of !

Rose tinted to a degree on my part perhaps this far down the line, but it did seem so much simpler back then.

I know the thumpers did a few Waterloo to Salisbury services - wish I'd been on them !

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I know the thumpers did a few Waterloo to Salisbury services - wish I'd been on them !

That reminds me I also have a pic I took on one of those days when on duty at SA, managed to catch a Crompton arriving on a relief from Waterloo with a 10 WR set (if my memory is correct?). Every available stock was pressed in to service, above and beyond what was issued by the STP planners (who had to abide by what was potentially available on paper), so it made for interesting formations.

 

[35B]

I know the thumpers did a few Waterloo to Salisbury services - wish I'd been on them !

I used to listen to the 23:55 from Waterloo, used to get the unit off the Kenny Belle to Salisbury, from a mile or so away as it worked through Earlsfield.

 

[sh24]

I know the thumpers did a few Waterloo to Salisbury services - wish I'd been on them !

It wasn't a Network Day, but I had a 3D/3H from Salisbury to Exeter. Honiton Bank was very loud!

 

[frankmoh]

I'd also like to know how those Network Days were on the other side of the Thames, I never hear about it. I guess Southern Region stock was just far more compatible, and that led to some rather odd formations that are remembered to this day.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I'd hardly got used to the excitement of rolling stock appearing in the 'LASER' jaffa cake livery and then all this NSE red blue and white started to appear everywhere

I'm trying to recollect the connection between the (very nice, in my opinion) orange and brown livery and the formation of NSE.
The original sectorisation name was 'London & South East' and a common (mis)conception was that it only covered lines to the south east of London. However the Jaffa Cake livery was only applied to, as far as I can remember, SR South Eastern Division trains - or did the other Southern divisions also apply it?
Passing a newly outshopped Jaffa cake liveried unit at Wolverton Works on a 'Cobbler' I suggested to my fellow-commuting BR colleagues in the engineering disciplines that that livery would soon be applied to the Cobbler sets, and they thought I was mad! Sadly, it never happened off course.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm trying to recollect the connection between the (very nice, in my opinion) orange and brown livery and the formation of NSE.
The original sectorisation name was 'London & South East' and a common (mis)conception was that it only covered lines to the south east of London. However the Jaffa Cake livery was only applied to, as far as I can remember, SR South Eastern Division trains - or did the other Southern divisions also apply it?
Passing a newly outshopped Jaffa cake liveried unit at Wolverton Works on a 'Cobbler' I suggested to my fellow-commuting BR colleagues in the engineering disciplines that that livery would soon be applied to the Cobbler sets, and they thought I was mad! Sadly, it never happened off course.

I’m fairly certain I saw Jaffa cake liveried unit(s?) at polegate and I think that would have been a CIG

I think I’ve see pictures of clacton units in Jaffa cake livery too.

I’m hoping I’m not misremembering after all these years.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I’m fairly certain I saw Jaffa cake liveried unit(s?) at polegate and I think that would have been a CIG

I think I’ve see pictures of clacton units in Jaffa cake livery too.

I’m hoping I’m not misremembering after all these years.

My bold
Triggering my memory - possibly the unit in Jaffa cake livery at Wolverton was a Clacton unit - makes more sense than an SR one.

 

[TrenHotel]

Ditto, or should I say, am so old...!

One of my grainy photos I took from my office window at Waterloo in August '86, which (to me) sums up the NSE branding to a tee. Note the old cab road still in situ, this being before the major rebuilding to create space for the International platforms. This and other images I took now donated to the South Western Circle, www.lswr.org

While the Benbom Brothers banner was obviously put up before NSE, that name is very evocative of those days - there were loads of NSE ads for trips to Dreamland in Margate during the late-80s.

 

[ls2270]

I'm trying to recollect the connection between the (very nice, in my opinion) orange and brown livery and the formation of NSE.
The original sectorisation name was 'London & South East' and a common (mis)conception was that it only covered lines to the south east of London. However the Jaffa Cake livery was only applied to, as far as I can remember, SR South Eastern Division trains - or did the other Southern divisions also apply it?
Passing a newly outshopped Jaffa cake liveried unit at Wolverton Works on a 'Cobbler' I suggested to my fellow-commuting BR colleagues in the engineering disciplines that that livery would soon be applied to the Cobbler sets, and they thought I was mad! Sadly, it never happened off course.

The vast majority of units in the Jaffa Cake livery were Class 411 (4CEP) units.

The only other classes to receive it were some Class 309s and 421s (4CIGs) upon their respective refurbishments, plus some of the Class 419 Motor Luggage Vans (MLVs), the latter presumably to match the 4CEPs they usually worked with.

 

[WesternLancer]

The vast majority of units in the Jaffa Cake livery were Class 411 (4CEP) units.

The only other classes to receive it were some Class 309s and 421s (4CIGs) upon their respective refurbishments, plus some of the Class 419 Motor Luggage Vans (MLVs), the latter presumably to match the 4CEPs they usually worked with.

Thanks for confirming my memory

 

[35B]

I'm trying to recollect the connection between the (very nice, in my opinion) orange and brown livery and the formation of NSE.
The original sectorisation name was 'London & South East' and a common (mis)conception was that it only covered lines to the south east of London. However the Jaffa Cake livery was only applied to, as far as I can remember, SR South Eastern Division trains - or did the other Southern divisions also apply it?
Passing a newly outshopped Jaffa cake liveried unit at Wolverton Works on a 'Cobbler' I suggested to my fellow-commuting BR colleagues in the engineering disciplines that that livery would soon be applied to the Cobbler sets, and they thought I was mad! Sadly, it never happened off course.

As I recall, Jaffa Cake was the initial “London and SE” livery. It had started to be applied and then “Network SouthEast’ was launched, with new livery, after which Jaffa Cake became obsolete.

 

[Bald Rick]

As I recall, Jaffa Cake was the initial “London and SE” livery. It had started to be applied and then “Network SouthEast’ was launched, with new livery, after which Jaffa Cake became obsolete.

I’m fairly sure that it’s not a coincidence that the Jaffa cake livery was stafted under the previous sector director (was it David Kirby?), and the NSE brand emerged a few months after Chris Green took over.

Imagine the furore now if a livery was changed ourely because the person at the top of the organisation changed!

 

[Leyland Bus]

The furore on here, yes! but atleast it wasn't just a change of livery, it was an entire change in just about every conceivable way...

 

[yorksrob]

I’m fairly sure that it’s not a coincidence that the Jaffa cake livery was stafted under the previous sector director (was it David Kirby?), and the NSE brand emerged a few months after Chris Green took over.

Imagine the furore now if a livery was changed ourely because the person at the top of the organisation changed!

To be fair, Jaffa Cake was around for a long time in Kent on the CEP's (or at least it seemed that way to my youthful eyes).

 

[WesternLancer]

I’m fairly sure that it’s not a coincidence that the Jaffa cake livery was stafted under the previous sector director (was it David Kirby?), and the NSE brand emerged a few months after Chris Green took over.

Imagine the furore now if a livery was changed ourely because the person at the top of the organisation changed!

To be fair it was all about a total relaunch of the whole service across the region in a wide range of aspects.

 

[yorksrob]

It was a massive leap forward for passengers in all respects, from the refreshed train interiors, the tidied stations and the innovative fare offerings.

GBR should aim to emulate it.

 

[Dr Hoo]

It was a massive leap forward for passengers in all respects, from the refreshed train interiors, the tidied stations and the innovative fare offerings.

GBR should aim to emulate it.

It’s so easy to buy into a cult idea, especially a one that’s been dead for more than three times as long as it’s brief life.
It’s also so easy to forget that many positive developments were achieved previously. For example, the Hastings electrification, East Grinstead, Thameslink, North London Line to North Woolwich had been done or were under way. Even Bournemouth to Weymouth electrification was ready to go at the start of 1986.
Southampton Airport Parkway and the start on Driver Only Operation were other examples of significant developments. Other people had worked in such a way that NSE could hit the ground running.

 

[yorksrob]

It’s so easy to buy into a cult idea, especially a one that’s been dead for more than three times as long as it’s brief life.
It’s also so easy to forget that many positive developments were achieved previously. For example, the Hastings electrification, East Grinstead, Thameslink, North London Line to North Woolwich had been done or were under way. Even Bournemouth to Weymouth electrification was ready to go at the start of 1986.
Southampton Airport Parkway and the start on Driver Only Operation were other examples of significant developments. Other people had worked in such a way that NSE could hit the ground running.

I was there - I travelled in the trains. My dad had the railcard (actually, I still do). NSE was very visible.

But I agree, BR was doing well before that with the electrifications etc - don't want to denigrate that.

And all done with wonderful, comfortable trains mostly from the modernisation plan era (hat's off to Eastleigh !).

NSE was a culmination of the best of BR.