Using an expired railcard for over a year

[saismee]

Thank you for this! Very helpful info. He wrote down MG11… what does this mean? Does it mean I can still get an out of court settlement, or is this just a formality code

It is just the name of the witness statement form.

 

[SECR 65]

To add to other members' comments on this:

Ah so this would work out cheaper than the full fare of an anytime day single for all journeys, which is relieving. Is it usually always just the difference? Or does it vary with GWR? I will prepare to save the max anyway. I know they have a backlog so could be a while.

We could be talking two years, as has been seen with some cases with GWR lately.

Also… is first initial contact straight to payment? Or will they always ask for my story too and a chance to apologise and own up to my mistake. This gives me extra time to prepare for when the sum will come through

Normally GWR seem to ask for a version of events. But some operators, and off the top of my head GWR is one of them, will contact you directly with a settlement offer. I reckon this would be more likely in a number of months or years. If they've investigated past ticketing history, then you can ask for a list of journeys, and might have the potential for a limited amount of negotiation. Come back here for advice before trying to negotiate.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2026 ==

Apologies, I know I’m asking same questions to different people. It’s just nice to get a handful of opinions!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2026 ==

How strict are they with the inconsistencies? Most of my tickets are 16-25 savers (29 journeys) but there are times where I’ve carelessly tapped Network Railcard (13 times). Do they take this more serious? Or will it be the same out of court settlement.

If the cost of the discount is different, then you may be charged. Hopefully if the discount is the same you won't be charged for these journeys, but GWR may well question them.

The overall single fare fee settlement would work out nearly 2.5k… and the difference is 1.5k!

I suppose you had better start saving then!....

 

[igor23937]

To add to other members' comments on this:

We could be talking two years, as has been seen with some cases with GWR lately.

Normally GWR seem to ask for a version of events. But some operators, and off the top of my head GWR is one of them, will contact you directly with a settlement offer. I reckon this would be more likely in a number of months or years. If they've investigated past ticketing history, then you can ask for a list of journeys, and might have the potential for a limited amount of negotiation. Come back here for advice before trying to negotiate.

If the cost of the discount is different, then you may be charged. Hopefully if the discount is the same you won't be charged for these journeys, but GWR may well question them.

I suppose you had better start saving then!....

Thanks for these additional comments. Always good to get a lot of different opinions and puts my anxiety at ease. So it looks like a massive waiting game now… and could be a while by the sounds of it. I’ll continue to put money away and keep track of time. Any other advice going forward?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi @igor23937
you've asked a good number of questions - which is good because the best thing you can do in this time is prepare for things - with that in mind here is some more things you can do to prepare

1) read this pdf - read it carefully and thoroughly. Every page. It will answer some of your questions

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/revenue-protection-policy/GWR-Revenue-Protection-Policy-January-2023.pdf

2) Make a note of what happened on the day you were stopped - write it down for your own personal records - it may well be months before GWR contact you - keeping notes from when this is all fresh in your mind will be helpful to you later

3) Make your own personal list from your ticket purchasing records of every ticket you have bought since your Railcard expired, note the ones with the wrong railcard the ones bought when your railcard was not valid. Note what you paid for each ticket - what type of ticket it was (off peak / Advance / Anytime / Single / Return etc etc) - basically make a spreadsheet table

4) Find copies of old Railcards or proof you held them - even some sort of e-mail acknowledgment or even a payment from your bank account that matches the cost of a Railcard price if you can't find better proof than that. Save that and keep it safe

5) Have a look through other cases on the forum involving GWR and see how they paly pout - but be careful to exclude cases that involve them chasing up debts for historical wrong tickets as civil cases commences over 6 months after the person was stopped (because that is different than the situation you are currently in - at least until 6 or 7 months have gone by - so those are not comparable cases to your current situation). This 6 month cut off is why it is probably important to get advice here on what to do after say 4 months if you have not heard from GWR - ie for you to decide if you want to ask them what is happening, or keep silent on the matter

6) as mentioned above start saving funds so you have money to hand to pay when requested

7) Finally - here is some general advice often given on the forum - if you have not seen it before on other threads it is worth you having a read of this :

Firstly, you committed a criminal offence by travelling with an invalid ticket and railway companies are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. The good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

Next, what happens is the railway company will write to you. The letter will go to the address that you gave them / on any of your ID they checked so you need to be able to access hard copy post at that address as they often send things that way (but also check e-mail and spam). It is extremely important that you reply, and you'll only have a limited time to do so (often 14 days from the date on their communication).

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The railway will probably offer you an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare for the journey you made at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you purchased. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150. They will also audit your online ticket purchase history and if this shows you've purchased other tickets that were not valid (eg railcard discounted tickets when you did not have a valid railcard, or tickets for only part of the journey, or tickets bought after boarding the train you travelled on ) they will probably factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement offer. Depending on how many journeys you've made over the period concerned this could end up being expensive.

Settlements usually have to be paid in full within a few days of them being offered so if money is tight you might want to think about how you will raise the sum required at short notice.

 

[igor23937]

Hi @igor23937
you've asked a good number of questions - which is good because the best thing you can do in this time is prepare for things - with that in mind here is some more things you can do to prepare

1) read this pdf - read it carefully and thoroughly. Every page. It will answer some of your questions

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/revenue-protection-policy/GWR-Revenue-Protection-Policy-January-2023.pdf

2) Make a note of what happened on the day you were stopped - write it down for your own personal records - it may well be months before GWR contact you - keeping notes from when this is all fresh in your mind will be helpful to you later

3) Make your own personal list from your ticket purchasing records of every ticket you have bought since your Railcard expired, note the ones with the wrong railcard the ones bought when your railcard was not valid. Note what you paid for each ticket - what type of ticket it was (off peak / Advance / Anytime / Single / Return etc etc) - basically make a spreadsheet table

4) Find copies of old Railcards or proof you held them - even some sort of e-mail acknowledgment or even a payment from your bank account that matches the cost of a Railcard price if you can't find better proof than that. Save that and keep it safe

5) Have a look through other cases on the forum involving GWR and see how they paly pout - but be careful to exclude cases that involve them chasing up debts for historical wrong tickets as civil cases commences over 6 months after the person was stopped (because that is different than the situation you are currently in - at least until 6 or 7 months have gone by - so those are not comparable cases to your current situation). This 6 month cut off is why it is probably important to get advice here on what to do after say 4 months if you have not heard from GWR - ie for you to decide if you want to ask them what is happening, or keep silent on the matter

6) as mentioned above start saving funds so you have money to hand to pay when requested

7) Finally - here is some general advice often given on the forum - if you have not seen it before on other threads it is worth you having a read of this :

Firstly, you committed a criminal offence by travelling with an invalid ticket and railway companies are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. The good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

Next, what happens is the railway company will write to you. The letter will go to the address that you gave them / on any of your ID they checked so you need to be able to access hard copy post at that address as they often send things that way (but also check e-mail and spam). It is extremely important that you reply, and you'll only have a limited time to do so (often 14 days from the date on their communication).

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The railway will probably offer you an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare for the journey you made at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you purchased. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150. They will also audit your online ticket purchase history and if this shows you've purchased other tickets that were not valid (eg railcard discounted tickets when you did not have a valid railcard, or tickets for only part of the journey, or tickets bought after boarding the train you travelled on ) they will probably factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement offer. Depending on how many journeys you've made over the period concerned this could end up being expensive.

Settlements usually have to be paid in full within a few days of them being offered so if money is tight you might want to think about how you will raise the sum required at short notice.

Again… really great advice here! Thank you!

I’ve read that pdf in detail and it says so much about court and some stuff about prison. I know you said there’s no chance under my circumstances but it does scare me still. Sorry to keep banging on for reassurance.

 

[WesternLancer]

Again… really great advice here! Thank you!

I’ve read that pdf in detail and it says so much about court and some stuff about prison. I know you said there’s no chance under my circumstances but it does scare me still. Sorry to keep banging on for reassurance.

Info from a post by an experienced forum member about the sentence if it went to court and you were found guilty (but the whole point of the advice here is to help you prevent it going to court - which no one here and not even a solicitor IMHO can 100% guarantee won't happen I'm afraid - but the chances are slim / very slim)

Worth noting that if you have lots of old fares to pay they can make that sum part of the out of court settlement offer so they get significantly more money from you, more quickly, paid direct to the railway company than they might get by taking you to court - it's very much in their interest financially to settle with you rather than to prosecute you.

Anyway - the prisons are far too full up to put people like you in them for forgetting to renew a Railcard...

Here is that info
------------------------------------------

The Magistrates Courts will typically deal with an offender convicted under byelaw 18 by way of a "band A fine".

The amount of a "band A fine" is:

• 50% of one week's wages, with a maximum fine of £1,000, if the offender has a job and has declared their income on the court paperwork;
• £60, if the offender is a student, or on benefits; or
• £220, if the offender has not engaged with the court case or provided the necessary information.

The fine would then be adjusted downwards if the offender had pleaded guilty, with a reduction of one-third for a plea at the first opportunity, tapering down to one-tenth for a plea at the start of a trial.

There are also three more amounts to pay:

• A victim surcharge, which is 40% of the fine
• Compensation for the unpaid fare
• The prosecution costs

 

[Amaranthe]

I have gone through my account and have seen a few mistakenly bought tickets with a Network Railcard. My mother has one, but I do not. I’m not aware of the rules for the railcard, however I have never been checked. These will most likely be mistakes as on Southeastern app it is easy to misclick, however I know this won’t ever cut as an excuse.

Have others picked up that some journeys were made using his Mother's Network Railcard? Could this open a different can of worms?

 

[WesternLancer]

Have others picked up that some journeys were made using his Mother's Network Railcard? Could this open a different can of worms?

probably not - it's just all part of the mess of tickets bought with railcard discount the OP did not actually have at the time - for which an apology and lessons learned response will be required - that they will want paying correctly for.
Unless GWR specifically ask about this when they get in touch wit the OP, I wouldn't be recommending getting in to the detail of it otherwise.

 

[igor23937]

Have others picked up that some journeys were made using his Mother's Network Railcard? Could this open a different can of worms?

My mother just has one, but I never used it. There were times I had misclicked Network Railcard instead of 16-25. It’s easy to do so and then not realise on the Southeastern app as it stays default - I would have noticed not thinking anything of it and switched it back to 16-25. I’m obviously going to apologise/take accountability etc but there was no one else’s railcard attached to orders/account other than my expired and renewed 16-25 savers

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probably not - it's just all part of the mess of tickets bought with railcard discount the OP did not actually have at the time - for which an apology and lessons learned response will be required - that they will want paying correctly for.
Unless GWR specifically ask about this when they get in touch wit the OP, I wouldn't be recommending getting in to the detail of it otherwise.

What are the chances of them charging the difference compared to the full charge?

 

[WesternLancer]

What are the chances of them charging the difference compared to the full charge?

as @RPI says it is there general approach so I would say pretty high chances.

I don't think there are that many circumstances where the Network Card discount is different to the 16-25 railcard discount - form memory the Network Card is less generous in aspects of it's usage t&Cs (I have a Network Card, but it's a good few years since I was entitled to a 16-25 Railcard )

 

[igor23937]

as @RPI says it is there general approach so I would say pretty high chances.

I don't think there are that many circumstances where the Network Card discount is different to the 16-25 railcard discount - form memory the Network Card is less generous in aspects of it's usage t&Cs (I have a Network Card, but it's a good few years since I was entitled to a 16-25 Railcard )

Pretty high chances of them only charging the differences… or high chances of them charging full fare fees

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as @RPI says it is there general approach so I would say pretty high chances.

I don't think there are that many circumstances where the Network Card discount is different to the 16-25 railcard discount - form memory the Network Card is less generous in aspects of it's usage t&Cs (I have a Network Card, but it's a good few years since I was entitled to a 16-25 Railcard )

Good to know about the railcard differences. So assuming they’ll treat it all the same as misuse of railcard? I’ve just looked up that they have the same discount (1/3).

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I just also want to ask if this situation is normal/common and a relatively easy case to deal with considering I’m happy to pay charges etc and be cooperative or is it complex and unusual? After reading around the forum it feels common but I’ve never experienced anything like this before so I do worry.

 

[WesternLancer]

Pretty high chances of them only charging the differences… or high chances of them charging full fare fees

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Good to know about the railcard differences. So assuming they’ll treat it all the same as misuse of railcard? I’ve just looked up that they have the same discount (1/3).

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I just also want to ask if this situation is normal/common and a relatively easy case to deal with considering I’m happy to pay charges etc and be cooperative or is it complex and unusual? After reading around the forum it feels common but I’ve never experienced anything like this before so I do worry.

Same as rpi said. They take into account what you paid from what we see on here.

Overlooked railcard renewals (and the consequences that then flow from that) is very common on this forum. Probably at least 25% of threads on here. Maybe more.
Nothing unusual about your situation in my view.

 

[igor23937]

Amazing thank you very much. I’ll keep you all posted on how this gets on and if I hear. If I haven’t after 4 months I’ll come back for some advice going forward.

And I’m sure I’ll think of more questions as the weeks go on

Same as rpi said. They take into account what you paid from what we see on here.

Overlooked railcard renewals (and the consequences that then flow from that) is very common on this forum. Probably at least 25% of threads on here. Maybe more.
Nothing unusual about your situation in my view.

 

[RPI]

My mother just has one, but I never used it. There were times I had misclicked Network Railcard instead of 16-25. It’s easy to do so and then not realise on the Southeastern app as it stays default - I would have noticed not thinking anything of it and switched it back to 16-25. I’m obviously going to apologise/take accountability etc but there was no one else’s railcard attached to orders/account other than my expired and renewed 16-25 savers

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2026 ==


What are the chances of them charging the difference compared to the full charge?

The caveat being that the "difference" will likely be the difference between the fare actually paid and the full anytime single for each journey made (ie it likely won't be the case of merely repayment of the discount obtained at the time)

 

[igor23937]

The caveat being that the "difference" will likely be the difference between the fare actually paid and the full anytime single for each journey made (ie it likely won't be the case of merely repayment of the discount obtained at the time)

Thank you for this! I’ve done some calculations and it works out pretty much the same anyway (a tad more but nothing substantial). Or does this sound wrong?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Thank you for this! I’ve done some calculations and it works out pretty much the same anyway (a tad more but nothing substantial). Or does this sound wrong?

That'll depend on the types of tickets you were buying

 

[igor23937]

That'll depend on the types of tickets you were buying

So let’s say…

Broadstairs to St Pancras = £58 for anytime day single. I paid £28 for a super off-peak day return with the railcard.

58x2 =116 is what they would charge me for full fee. (2 single legs). Take £28 away from that is £88 and that would be the difference. Meaning if I did this 3 times it would be a £264 charge, roughly?

I’m only trying to be specific to workout potential charges - although I can never get it what they actually will do. If I do a few scenarios and have a range, I know what to start saving

 

[SuspectUsual]

So let’s say…

Broadstairs to St Pancras = £58 for anytime day single. I paid £28 for a super off-peak day return with the railcard.

58x2 =116 is what they would charge me for full fee. (2 single legs). Take £28 away from that is £88 and that would be the difference. Meaning if I did this 3 times it would be a £264 charge, roughly?

I’m only trying to be specific to workout potential charges - although I can never get it what they actually will do. If I do a few scenarios and have a range, I know what to start saving

I haven't checked the specific fares in your example, but the logic and the maths looks right to me

 

[SECR 65]

Apologies for the lack of substance to this post, but I just wanted to offer a little bit more reassurance.

As established above, cases like this are very common. As is immediately apparent from many other threads, new members come onto the forum and are extremely anxious about what will happen. Those who come back to update us on the outcome of their case - very commonly a settlement, and often not too much.

What is worth baring in mind is that prosecution is not the easiest option for GWR. It comes with costs and time for them. They have two main aims regarding your case:
- To reclaim the fares you have evaded
- To prevent you fare evading again

The easiest way of them to do this for a first offence is a settlement. Prosecution is threatened to scare you, but is unlikely to happen in practice.

It is clear you are regretful of what has happened, and GWR will be able to ascertain this. In my eyes they have no real reason not to settle.


As far as I can see, this is basically a 'no railcard held' case. These are so so so common and easy to deal with by settlement. I can't imagine any of the delicacies will have much of an affect on the end result.

Regarding how much to save, to be on the safe side, I would recommend the anytime single fare for each journey where you did not hold the railcard for the ticket used. In reality, it is unlikely you will be charged this much.

Do let us know if you have any more questions.

 

[igor23937]

So the difference of the original payment compared to the full far singles seems most

Apologies for the lack of substance to this post, but I just wanted to offer a little bit more reassurance.

As established above, cases like this are very common. As is immediately apparent from many other threads, new members come onto the forum and are extremely anxious about what will happen. Those who come back to update us on the outcome of their case - very commonly a settlement, and often not too much.

What is worth baring in mind is that prosecution is not the easiest option for GWR. It comes with costs and time for them. They have two main aims regarding your case:
- To reclaim the fares you have evaded
- To prevent you fare evading again

The easiest way of them to do this for a first offence is a settlement. Prosecution is threatened to scare you, but is unlikely to happen in practice.

It is clear you are regretful of what has happened, and GWR will be able to ascertain this. In my eyes they have no real reason not to settle.


As far as I can see, this is basically a 'no railcard held' case. These are so so so common and easy to deal with by settlement. I can't imagine any of the delicacies will have much of an affect on the end result.

Regarding how much to save, to be on the safe side, I would recommend the anytime single fare for each journey where you did not hold the railcard for the ticket used. In reality, it is unlikely you will be charged this much.

Do let us know if you have any more questions.

Thank you so so much. This puts me at ease knowing this.

Although the anxiety of saving that much money is there, knowing that could be less and they are most likely to settle is great!

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Even though I could owe a large sum if it comes to full anytime day single fare fees (could be up to 2.5k)… will they treat it the same as any case like this and just try to get their money back? Or is it more severe the more money/fares are involved?

 

[WesternLancer]

So the difference of the original payment compared to the full far singles seems most

Thank you so so much. This puts me at ease knowing this.

Although the anxiety of saving that much money is there, knowing that could be less and they are most likely to settle is great!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2026 ==

Even though I could owe a large sum if it comes to full anytime day single fare fees (could be up to 2.5k)… will they treat it the same as any case like this and just try to get their money back? Or is it more severe the more money/fares are involved?

From what we see they will try to get the money back rather than prosecute. The amount of the sum isn’t going to make that change.

If you were a deliberate fare evader and being uncooperative then I would expect them to be more likely to prosecute.

 

[igor23937]

From what we see they will try to get the money back rather than prosecute. The amount of the sum isn’t going to make that change.

If you were a deliberate fare evader and being uncooperative then I would expect them to be more likely to prosecute.

I’ve calculated I can save this money up in roughly 10 weeks. Do you reckon this is enough time?

 

[WesternLancer]

I’ve calculated I can save this money up in roughly 10 weeks. Do you reckon this is enough time?

at the speed GWR have typically been replying 10 weeks is plenty of time - look at other threads with them to see the response times - you could plot an equivalent of this with Thameslink for example

eg

GTR witness statement - please help!

Yesterday I was given a witness statement. I originally tapped in my oyster on a London Bridge with the intention to go Godstone as I had a client where I do £30 energy surveys. This was my last bid to cover me cost wise in terms of food etc however I was stopped by a ticket inspector who...

www.railforums.co.uk

- the person (OP) was stopped on 9 March 2026
- The OP got the letter from GTR / Thameslink on 4 June 2026
- The OP replied to that on 8 June 2026
- The OP was offered an Out of Court settlement on 10 June 2026

and if they don't contact you for a couple of years - like some of the GWR ones, you might even be able to save up enough for a deposit on a flat in the time they get round to it

But more seriously, it's probably worth (if you feel ale to) talking to close family about the situation as they may be able to lend you funds if needed, or generally give you support where they can.

 

[igor23937]

at the speed GWR have typically been replying 10 weeks is plenty of time - look at other threads with them to see the response times - you could plot an equivalent of this with Thameslink for example

eg

GTR witness statement - please help!

Yesterday I was given a witness statement. I originally tapped in my oyster on a London Bridge with the intention to go Godstone as I had a client where I do £30 energy surveys. This was my last bid to cover me cost wise in terms of food etc however I was stopped by a ticket inspector who...

www.railforums.co.uk

- the person (OP) was stopped on 9 March 2026
- The OP got the letter from GTR / Thameslink on 4 June 2026
- The OP replied to that on 8 June 2026
- The OP was offered an Out of Court settlement on 10 June 2026

and if they don't contact you for a couple of years - like some of the GWR ones, you might even be able to save up enough for a deposit on a flat in the time they get round to it

But more seriously, it's probably worth (if you feel ale to) talking to close family about the situation as they may be able to lend you funds if needed, or generally give you support where they can.

Amazing thank you! Are most letters this intimidating in terms of saying they’re going to take it to magistrates court? Is it a threat imposed sort of thing to make you pay up instead?

 

[WesternLancer]

Amazing thank you! Are most letters this intimidating in terms of saying they’re going to take it to magistrates court? Is it a threat imposed sort of thing to make you pay up instead?

Usually like this. Find some GWR uploads on the forum to see their standard letter.
It’s designed to make people take it seriously rather than think it will all go away if they ignore it.

 

[igor23937]

Usually like this. Find some GWR uploads on the forum to see their standard letter.
It’s designed to make people take it seriously rather than think it will all go away if they ignore it.

Wicked, I’ll take a look!

I need to buy a ticket for tomorrow… I do have a valid railcard now and plan to use it correctly. Am I okay to just go ahead with it?

 

[WesternLancer]

Wicked, I’ll take a look!

I need to buy a ticket for tomorrow… I do have a valid railcard now and plan to use it correctly. Am I okay to just go ahead with it?

Yes, absolutely - if you railcard is valid you should use it to discount the tickets you want to buy to travel tomorrow (and make sure you select the correct railcard option when applying it to the purchase)