Cross Country - Birmingham to Stansted

[The exile]

Serving Leicester is one of the main objectives of the route though...

And every person getting off at Leicester is creating space for someone to get on.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

And every person getting off at Leicester is creating space for someone to get on.

...and from direct experience, the trains are very heavily used between Leicester and Peterborough. The heaviest loadings seem to be between Stamford and Peterborough, but the usage at Oakham and Melton Mowbray is quite good as well.

 

[KaneLeb]

...and from direct experience, the trains are very heavily used between Leicester and Peterborough. The heaviest loadings seem to be between Stamford and Peterborough, but the usage at Oakham and Melton Mowbray is quite good as well.

Agreed. A lot of people, myself previously included, use this service between Leicester/Melton/Oakham/Stamford to commute to their jobs. It was always very full in an evening when I used to commute home, even more so if any of the previous trains were delayed or cancelled.

 

[dk1]

This route should really be two trains an hour. Subject to additional crews ( yeah, I know.... it's XC... ) and squeezing an extra two diagrams out of the fleet, it would be relatively easy to extend the service from Birmingham which terminates at Leicester through to Peterborough although it would result in a 20/40 interval eastbound; the westbound would be able to be 30/30 though.

That would at least allow the critical part of the route to be doubled in frequency and capacity, although it would be necessary to change at Peterborough off this second service if you wanted Stansted.

Two trains an hour was requested ten or more years ago but rejected awaiting a decision on Ely North Junction and we are still no further forward on that. Always surprised me that the Leicesters don’t get extended through to Peterborough.

To think that when the EXPRESS Sprinter timetable was launched in 1988 Stamford, Oakham & Melton Mowbray were only served every other hour off peak by the Ipswich/Cambridge services. Norwich trains tended to run fast Peterborough to Leicester.

 

[Steve Harris]

Back in the mis 70's it was 6 car lash ups of 104 units plenty of seats but not hourly. it then went to 6 coach rakes of hauled stock a bit too long for platforms but still good capacity albeit to that point Birmingham to Norwich . It was once sprinterisation came in, followed by privatisation that they made it to cambridge and stansted. Although it was now hourly much reduced capacity. The trains now are 3 car but still insufficient for the route and the crowding it gets. In the meantime resignalling and removal of some of the boxes meant there are quite long sections between signals so the increased frequency that was proposed was a non starter as capacity between Peterborough and leicester is restricted and the freight companies hang onto their paths by finding the need to run large numbers of driver training trips whenever the increased frequency proposals resurface.

I seldom have need to use the line but find it generally reliable as opposed to the bad old days of central trains. The current service isn't too bad but really needs 4 coach sprinter sets to relieve the overcrowding. I can't see that ever happening though.

Oops, your memory is probably playing tricks as when I used to travel from Cambridge to Peterborough circa 1983 the service used to continue onto Birmingham New Street, so therefore there was a Birmingham-Cambridge service way before Privatisation! (or sprinterisation)

IF memory serves me correctly, back then it was a 2 hourly Birmingham- Norwich service and a 2 hourly Birmingham- Cambridge service (meaning Birmingham - Peterborough got an hourly service), all service's being hauled by Clas 31/4's.

When Sprinterisation came in Cambridge got a direct service to Liverpool ! And then, as you say, the Birmingham service's got extended to Stansted Airport.

 

[1D54]

And of course there are times when a Stansted - New Street service is running that late that the service then gets cancelled on the return to Leicester leaving a 2 hour gap for Leics passengers at 3 stations but that is a different subject altogether but it is galling for people sitting on platforms at these stations watching a Stansted go speeding through when dwell times at Leicester and Peterborough would surely mean they could stop.

 

[dk1]

Oops, your memory is probably playing tricks as when I used to travel from Cambridge to Peterborough circa 1983 the service used to continue onto Birmingham New Street, so therefore there was a Birmingham-Cambridge service way before Privatisation! (or sprinterisation)

IF memory serves me correctly, back then it was a 2 hourly Birmingham- Norwich service and a 2 hourly Birmingham- Cambridge service (meaning Birmingham - Peterborough got an hourly service), all serviceservice's being hauled by Clas 31/4's.

When Sprinterisation came in Cambridge got a direct service to Liverpool ! And then, as you say, the Birmingham service's got extended to Stansted Airport.

In my early days on the railway the 31/4 departures from Norwich to Birmingham SX were at 07:30, 09:30, 13:20 & 16:42. When the daily Yarmouth-Liverpool service started around 1985 the 09:30 departures moved to 11:30. arrivals were at 12:10, 14:20, 18:10 & 20:10.

 

[onebagger]

Would it be possible to use doubled up 2 car 170s (so four cars total?)

 

[londonmidland]

Would it be possible to use doubled up 2 car 170s (so four cars total?)

They already do that, albeit on the Nottingham to Birmingham/Cardiff services. The simple fact is that CrossCountry have an insufficiently sized fleet, both on their Turbostar and Voyager routes.

 

[Magdalia]

IF memory serves me correctly, back then it was a 2 hourly Birmingham- Norwich service and a 2 hourly Birmingham- Cambridge service (meaning Birmingham - Peterborough got an hourly service), all serviceservice's being hauled by Clas 31/4's.

Your memory doesn't serve you correctly. Cambridge did not have a 2 hourly loco hauled service to and from Birmingham.

The Norwich-Birmingham service that went loco hauled in 1977 was 5 trains per day. Westbound was 0754/0950/1317/1538/1832 and eastbound was 0805/1015/1236/1640/1835. There was one train each way 0703 Cambridge-Birmingham and 1528 return, which was usually a 3 car Swindon cross country unit. This continued until 1982, when some of the westbound trains were retimed, this included the Cambridge starting at 0903, and also going over to loco hauled. The trains were steam heat until October 1982.

The timetable changed almost every year between 1982 and 1987. The maximum number of Cambridge-Birminghams was 3 each way in 1987, 2 of them Sprinter substitutions. These were 0525/0603/0713 from Cambridge and 1540/1711/2020 from Birmingham.

The full Sprinter service started in 1988.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Two trains an hour was requested ten or more years ago but rejected awaiting a decision on Ely North Junction and we are still no further forward on that. Always surprised me that the Leicesters don’t get extended through to Peterborough.

Yes, and the latter is what I think should be done, even though it would be a 20/40 interval eastbound that's better than 60... and the return would be an even 30/30.

After all, we do not need to wait for Ely North Junction in order to run the second train as far as Peterborough.

 

[Stampy]

There are only 7 two car units and 22 three car units so you were unlucky. I travel regularly on these services between New St and Leicester. What am i supposed to do? Wait for the stopper!!

Oh no, It's just me grumbling.... You get squeezed into a seat between Birmingham and Leicester.....
Pulls into Leicester and empties
Then the train runs almost empty to Peterborough (the 2022 train is normally RAMMED all the way!!)
Then it fills back up again for the run to Ely/Cambridge!!

 

[Starmill]

For the prices you'd expect flawless punctuality and next to zero cancellations on this route. One way from Stamford to Oakham is £14 for example. A shade over 10 miles and 20 min generally by car.

 

[class 9]

For the prices you'd expect flawless punctuality and next to zero cancellations on this route. One way from Stamford to Oakham is £14 for example. A shade over 10 miles and 20 min generally by car.

Priced to try and suppress demand.

 

[Class 170101]

Two trains an hour was requested ten or more years ago but rejected awaiting a decision on Ely North Junction and we are still no further forward on that. Always surprised me that the Leicesters don’t get extended through to Peterborough.

Ely North Jn isn't strictly a problem for that route, its double lead Cambridge to Peterborough, unlike to Kings Lynn and Norwich. I heard it was too heavy on crew at Cambridge.

 

[Hairyspotter]

A few stations along the route won't accommodate a 220 even if Stansted does

Voyagers also can't work on the Stansted route as they aren't fitted with selective door opening to stop at shorter platforms. And diesel trains can only use the bay at Stansted to avoid setting off the fire alarms at the station.

I seem to recall they haven't been gauge cleared between Manton Junction and Peterborough either unless anyone knows any different.

 

[LowLevel]

For the prices you'd expect flawless punctuality and next to zero cancellations on this route. One way from Stamford to Oakham is £14 for example. A shade over 10 miles and 20 min generally by car.

BR did that on purpose and it's never been changed. No interest in servicing local journeys on the route. Nonetheless, people have always paid it.

 

[sharpley]

For the prices you'd expect flawless punctuality and next to zero cancellations on this route. One way from Stamford to Oakham is £14 for example. A shade over 10 miles and 20 min generally by car.

You can get Melton Mowbray to Nuneaton advance fares for £4.60, including peak time and weekends, sometimes just a few hours before travel so it's not all bad. Suddenly started to appear over the last month.

 

[dk1]

Ely North Jn isn't strictly a problem for that route, its double lead Cambridge to Peterborough, unlike to Kings Lynn and Norwich. I heard it was too heavy on crew at Cambridge.

I know it’s the only double route on the junction but it is still additional traffic and was cited as the reason by Network Rail along with level crossings and hence the reason it was turned down along with Ipswich-Peterborough going hourly.

 

[LowLevel]

Ely North Jn isn't strictly a problem for that route, its double lead Cambridge to Peterborough, unlike to Kings Lynn and Norwich. I heard it was too heavy on crew at Cambridge.

It is double lead but it is still double block protected if trains are signalled on the other routes which eats capacity on the up line.

As I understood it the original proposals were to run the Leicester stopper just as far as Peterborough and to train Leicester crews on that bit but it never went ahead.

 

[dk1]

It is double lead but it is still double block protected if trains are signalled on the other routes which eats capacity on the up line.

I remember also that ways were looked at into adding additional TPWS to remove the double blocking but the complexity and number of toast racks needed was quite insane so it wasn’t taken forward.

 

[Flywaver1]

Must say I haven't posted on this forum in years.... But anyway I am a Driver on this route.
As far as I am aware the Hitachi platform has been mentioned as replacement for XC routes and to standard the Traction more. I wonder if a version of the Aurora units could be made as 4 car and that would suit the route better. Although end doors instead of the current Turbostar layout will cause issues.

 

[chubs]

Must say I haven't posted on this forum in years.... But anyway I am a Driver on this route.
As far as I am aware the Hitachi platform has been mentioned as replacement for XC routes and to standard the Traction more. I wonder if a version of the Aurora units could be made as 4 car and that would suit the route better. Although end doors instead of the current Turbostar layout will cause issues.

What about bi mode (or tri mode) FLIRTS?

 

[dk1]

What about bi mode (or tri mode) FLIRTS?

Simply cannot go wrong when Flirting. Stadler has transformed travel in East Anglia. Might not be the cheapest option but you only get what you pay for in this life.

 

[londonmidland]

For the Turbostar routes, a FLIRT would certainly be the smart option.

 

[Flywaver1]

What about bi mode (or tri mode) FLIRTS?

I mentioned those units but to be honest I think the route is stuck with Turbostars for the foreseeable.. They want to fIt them with ECTS eventually

 

[Edders23]

Your memory doesn't serve you correctly. Cambridge did not have a 2 hourly loco hauled service to and from Birmingham.

The Norwich-Birmingham service that went loco hauled in 1977 was 5 trains per day. Westbound was 0754/0950/1317/1538/1832 and eastbound was 0805/1015/1236/1640/1835. There was one train each way 0703 Cambridge-Birmingham and 1528 return, which was usually a 3 car Swindon cross country unit. This continued until 1982, when some of the westbound trains were retimed, this included the Cambridge starting at 0903, and also going over to loco hauled. The trains were steam heat until October 1982.

The timetable changed almost every year between 1982 and 1987. The maximum number of Cambridge-Birminghams was 3 each way in 1987, 2 of them Sprinter substitutions. These were 0525/0603/0713 from Cambridge and 1540/1711/2020 from Birmingham.

The full Sprinter service started in 1988.

when the class 31 hauled services started in 1977 leicester to Peterborough stoppers were either 3 car met cams or 2 car cravens units I can't remember ever seeing a swindon xc unit on those but have a photograph of one at Nuneaton doing a Birmingham to leicester service

 

[dk1]

when the class 31 hauled services started in 1977 leicester to Peterborough stoppers were either 3 car met cams or 2 car cravens units I can't remember ever seeing a swindon xc unit on those but have a photograph of one at Nuneaton doing a Birmingham to leicester service

I remember the Swindon units working this route through to Yarmouth on Summer Saturdays and there was a time when they worked to Lowestoft too.

 

[Crithylum]

Seems like they are listening to us. This train is genuinely formed of 4 coaches. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G00961/2026-06-13/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[1D54]

Seems like they are listening to us. This train is genuinely formed of 4 coaches. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G00961/2026-06-13/detailed#allox_id=0

Typical!! The day nothing goes west of Leicester.