GWR- travelling with invalid ticket

[praza12345]

Hello wonderful people,

-Today I was travelling on GWR using a return ticket purchased with a 16–17 Railcard discount.
-An inspector checked my ticket and then asked whether I had a valid 16–17 Railcard.
-I panicked and was untruthful. I said that I had purchased one four days ago, which was obviously a stupid thing to say, as I am in my 20s and do not look 16–17.
-In reality I do not have a any Railcard at all.

-The inspector wrote down my details in his notebook, took information from my driving licence, and I believe he may also have recorded the conversation on his body camera.
-This is the third day this week that I have purchased tickets using the 16–17 Railcard discount.
-I have used trains many times in the past, but before this week I had never done anything like this.

-He asked me to sign something, but I refused because I did not want my signature attached to a potentially legal document without first obtaining legal advice.
-He then gave me a card relating to prosecutions.

-I have spent some time reading other posts, and from what I can gather, GWR often resolves these matters through an out of court settlement.
-My understanding is that this usually involves paying the correct fare along with an administrative fee.

-Based on what I have read, the usual advice is to wait until you are contacted before taking any action.
-However, the address on the driving licence that was recorded is my permanent address, and I can no longer stay there or reliably collect post from that location.
-I am currently living in a hotel for the foreseeable future, and I am not even sure whether I can receive post there.

I have a few questions:
1.) How should I go about ensuring that I receive any correspondence from GWR regarding this matter?
2.) Also, based on what I have described, is there a realistic chance that I could face prosecution rather than an out of court settlement?
3.) How would i calculate how much I owe over the 3 days of travel this week

Thank you for any advice.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello wonderful people,

-Today I was travelling on GWR using a return ticket purchased with a 16–17 Railcard discount.
-An inspector checked my ticket and then asked whether I had a valid 16–17 Railcard.
-I panicked and was untruthful. I said that I had purchased one four days ago, which was obviously a stupid thing to say, as I am in my 20s and do not look 16–17.
-In reality I do not have a any Railcard at all.

-The inspector wrote down my details in his notebook, took information from my driving licence, and I believe he may also have recorded the conversation on his body camera.
-This is the third day this week that I have purchased tickets using the 16–17 Railcard discount.
-I have used trains many times in the past, but before this week I had never done anything like this.

-He asked me to sign something, but I refused because I did not want my signature attached to a potentially legal document without first obtaining legal advice.
-He then gave me a card relating to prosecutions.

-I have spent some time reading other posts, and from what I can gather, GWR often resolves these matters through an out of court settlement.
-My understanding is that this usually involves paying the correct fare along with an administrative fee.

-Based on what I have read, the usual advice is to wait until you are contacted before taking any action.
-However, the address on the driving licence that was recorded is my permanent address, and I can no longer stay there or reliably collect post from that location.
-I am currently living in a hotel for the foreseeable future, and I am not even sure whether I can receive post there.

I have a few questions:
1.) How should I go about ensuring that I receive any correspondence from GWR regarding this matter?
2.) Also, based on what I have described, is there a realistic chance that I could face prosecution rather than an out of court settlement?
3.) How would i calculate how much I owe over the 3 days of travel this week

Thank you for any advice.

Welcome to the forum. If you haven't already found it, have a look at what GWR say on their website at https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/penalties-and-enforcements, and I think their Revenue Protection Policy (linked from that page at https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-...Revenue-Protection-Policy-January-2023-v2.pdf) is worth a look.

For your specific questions

1) I think an email to GWRProsecutions@gwr.com is the way to go. If there's a specific reference on the card you were given, quote that: otherwise give your name and the address you gave, and details of the train you were on (where you boarded, what time you boarded, where you were planning to get off the train, when you talked to the inspector) so that they have a good chance of finding your case. And obviously give your correct address as well!
2) Look at page 11 of the Revenue Protection Policy: GWR prefer to settle out of court. But there can be no guarantee of this in that what you have been doing would be hard to show as accidental or a one-off. Most likely GWR will allow you to settle out of court but you should be open to the possibility that you might be prosecuted.
3) Find out the full fare for the journeys you've made (that will be quite easy: you claimed a 50% discounts, so it will be twice what you paid). Most railway companies claim back the whole fare, but GWR generally only ask for the difference in fares. So if they settle out of court, you will probably have to pay the same as you have already paid.

As you are in your 20s, you are probably entitled to buy one of the 16-25 or 26-30 railcards. Depending when you travel, these could legitimately save you around 33% of your fare (as opposed to the 50% from the 16-17 saver that you were claiming to have). Check them out at https://www.railcard.co.uk/

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello wonderful people,

-Today I was travelling on GWR using a return ticket purchased with a 16–17 Railcard discount.
-An inspector checked my ticket and then asked whether I had a valid 16–17 Railcard.
-I panicked and was untruthful. I said that I had purchased one four days ago, which was obviously a stupid thing to say, as I am in my 20s and do not look 16–17.
-In reality I do not have a any Railcard at all.

-The inspector wrote down my details in his notebook, took information from my driving licence, and I believe he may also have recorded the conversation on his body camera.
-This is the third day this week that I have purchased tickets using the 16–17 Railcard discount.
-I have used trains many times in the past, but before this week I had never done anything like this.

-He asked me to sign something, but I refused because I did not want my signature attached to a potentially legal document without first obtaining legal advice.
-He then gave me a card relating to prosecutions.

-I have spent some time reading other posts, and from what I can gather, GWR often resolves these matters through an out of court settlement.
-My understanding is that this usually involves paying the correct fare along with an administrative fee.

-Based on what I have read, the usual advice is to wait until you are contacted before taking any action.
-However, the address on the driving licence that was recorded is my permanent address, and I can no longer stay there or reliably collect post from that location.
-I am currently living in a hotel for the foreseeable future, and I am not even sure whether I can receive post there.

I have a few questions:
1.) How should I go about ensuring that I receive any correspondence from GWR regarding this matter?
2.) Also, based on what I have described, is there a realistic chance that I could face prosecution rather than an out of court settlement?
3.) How would i calculate how much I owe over the 3 days of travel this week

Thank you for any advice.

You should buy a Railcard that you are entitled to hold, and do this now, then start legitimately discounting your tickets with that railcard when you can use it (check the rules relating to it)

When the time comes to respond to GWR about that has happened - this is something you can then say to them you have done to 'put things right' - as persuading them you will not deliberately evade in this way again is an important part of securing an out of court prosecution instead of being prosecuted for your deliberate evasion

See the cost of a Railcard as an investment in helping not be taken to court.

Be prepared for them to trawl all of your purchasing records to find any other tickets discounted with this Railcard (16-17 saver) going back over some years potentially - and charging you for new tickets. This could add up.

Based on what I have read, the usual advice is to wait until you are contacted before taking any action.
-However, the address on the driving licence that was recorded is my permanent address, and I can no longer stay there or reliably collect post from that location.
-I am currently living in a hotel for the foreseeable future, and I am not even sure whether I can receive post there.

On this - it is vital that you receive post from them so you need to find a way to tackle this

Also more generally - it's actually an offence to have a driving licence with an incorrect address so you might want to think about how to resolve that separately.

Cases we see definitely go to prosecution are ones where the railway company has written to the address given to the passenger but the passenger has not received or responded to that correspondence - in such cases they just automatically escalate to court prosecution - it's a sausage machine.

So you need to establish a reliable address where you can receive post (or ask them if they can contact you by e-mail but that may not work - legal stuff that related to a court would go to an address, not e-mail) - maybe check with the hotel, or do you have a friend whose address you can give to the railway company (with your friends permission)

Were you given a ref number by the member of staff on that bit of paper you mentioned? This would help

If so I would suggest a simple letter / e-mail to GWR to tell them an decent / safe address for you

Posted previous suggested templates for this that you could adapt so please say if that might be of help to you

 

[praza12345]

Thank you for your responses

I will make sure to get the correct Railcard for my age before travelling this week.

-I don't want to make excuses or claim ignorance as I understand that ultimately it was my responsibility to make sure I was entitled to the discount I was using.
-But for the sake of context when buying tickets I foolishly applied the Railcard discount because I wasn't asked for any ID verification or proof that I held the Railcard.
-I had also shown my tickets to inspectors and gate staff on previous journeys that week without any issues, which wrongly reinforced me thinking there was no major issue.
-As this was my first time familiarising myself with the railcard system (as my friend had told me about them in passing) I feel like I didn't realised the magnitude of what I was doing otherwise I wouldn't have done it.
-I've also had issues with housing and tuition so I thought I could cheapen my trips.

Looking back I genuinely regret it and fully accept responsibility.

I just wanted to ask whether there is any way for me to pay any outstanding fare or balance now?
Also I can't find the little paper which I was given containing the reference number is there anyway of finding out what the ref number is?

 

[WesternLancer]

I just wanted to ask whether there is any way for me to pay any outstanding fare or balance now?

No. You need to wait to hear from them. they will want to look at your past ticket purchases and calculate any total they want to ask of you - you may not hear for at least 8 weeks or more, they have backlogs of cases to deal with. If it gets to 4 months and you have not heard from them check back here to see what options might be worth you considering at that stage.

Also I can't find the little paper which I was given containing the reference number is there anyway of finding out what the ref number is?

That will make it even more difficult to contact them about this but not impossible.
Make a note now of the time, date, place that they spoke to you - as far as you can recall - keep that safe in case you need it

I can't think of a way you can easily find out what your case ref number is now you have lost it. But it will be on the letter when they finally write to you.

Have you got a plan about getting your post over coming weeks / months?

 

[praza12345]

1) I think an email to GWRProsecutions@gwr.com is the way to go. If there's a specific reference on the card you were given, quote that: otherwise give your name and the address you gave, and details of the train you were on (where you boarded, what time you boarded, where you were planning to get off the train, when you talked to the inspector) so that they have a good chance of finding your case. And obviously give your correct address as well!

If so I would suggest a simple letter / e-mail to GWR to tell them an decent / safe address for you

Hi, just a quick update on my situation.

I emailed the prosecution team regarding my case and provided both my old address and my current address. This was their response:

Thank you for your email.
I have checked our records and, at present, we do not hold any case in your name or associated with the address you provided.
Yours sincerely,
Revenue Recovery Team | Great Western Railway
Vastern House | Trooper Potts Way | Reading | RG1 8FP"

Does this mean I have nothing to worry about, or is it still possible that my case hasn't been processed yet and therefore isn't showing on their system?

If it's the latter, is there anything else I should do at this stage, or should I just wait?

Thanks in advance.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, just a quick update on my situation.

I emailed the prosecution team regarding my case and provided both my old address and my current address. This was their response:

Does this mean I have nothing to worry about, or is it still possible that my case hasn't been processed yet and therefore isn't showing on their system?

If it's the latter, is there anything else I should do at this stage, or should I just wait?

Thanks in advance.

Thanks for update with GWR
It's tricky - basically they have 6 months from incident date in which to bring prosecution for criminal case against you - so you need to wait 6 months plus maybe 2 or 3 weeks to know if you are in the clear for that. You could write to them again to ask after say 4 months.
If you were given a ref number - even if you have lost it - it would seem unlikely that they would forget about you
BUT we do know GWR seem to have big backlogs
After the 6 months what they can do is realistically only a civil court action* against you to reclaim the unpaid fares that they think are owed (so no criminal record if it got to that, but potentially a CCJ for the debt) - and we do see cases on here where GWR in particular do do this - some involving cases where the incident was 2+ years ago (they have up to 6 years for civil court action for the debt IIRC)

Given that I get the sense that a lot of people who come to the forum for help are relatively young people, and relatively young people have less settled residential addresses and thus more likely to move, I don't know how they get on sending letters and court papers for civil action 2 years after the event to people who might have moved several times in that period of time....

So it is still possible that the case hasn't been processed yet I'm afraid

I think you should just wait for 4 or 5 months from incident date, keeping an eye on your post - then come back here for advice on whether you want to write to them again about it - and the pros and cons of that so you can decide at that point if you want to do anything (basically there are advantages in making sure you have not been taken to court for criminal prosecution without you knowing about it, but there is a process to re-set that if it happened - called a Statutory Declaration - but if you look at threads on here where people have had to dop that you will see it's a faff)

Do you see yourself changing address in the next eg 6 months? (from the postal address you gave them)

You can at least use the time to save up, and keep safe in the bank earning a bit of interest, the sort of sum that you might owe them, and presumably you know how to calculate that? If not please ask

* there might be the potential for Fraud court action but we don't if ever, (on this forum) see railway companies tending to go down this route, so I think it's unlikely that would be what would happen to you.

 

[praza12345]

Hi another update about my case. I'd like to firstly appreciate the responses they've been very helpful.

So GWR Prosecutions got back to me, and I have attached their email below.
The total they state I must pay is £206.95. I'm not sure how they arrived at this figure. I assume it may include the standard costs charge.
By my calculations using the 16–17 Railcard discount which is 50% off, I travelled three times:

-First journey: £39.40
-Second journey: £35.33
-Third journey: £35.84

This gives a total of £110.57. Based on this, I would have expected the amount owed for the fares to be £110.57.

Could you confirm whether my calculation is correct

I have also attached the receipts for each ticket below.

Thanks

Settlement Offer

One of our revenue protection colleagues has reported that you have travelled or attempted to travel from OXFORD to EAST TILBURY on 5th June 2026 without a valid ticket or valid railcard for this journey.

The National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) together with the terms and conditions of specific tickets and discounts, including railcards, comprise the binding contract between GWR and you. Under Condition 9 of NRCoT we are permitted to take a variety of concurrent actions these are:

· Charge the full undiscounted single fare to a station directly served by the train that you were on.
· Charge you a Penalty Fare when travelling within our Penalty Fare area.
· Report you for consideration of prosecution for a criminal offence under the Railways Byelaws or other applicable legislation.
· Prosecution may be brought in addition to or in parallel with civil enforcement or recovery or may follow initial steps for civil enforcement or recovery.
· Recover our costs.

Settlement Offer:
GWR reserves the right to prosecute and institute civil money claims. However, we would prefer the matter be settled without the need for this. Therefore, we have calculated the difference between what you paid originally and the full undiscounted fare price for the ticket, plus our standard costs charge. Therefore, we would like to offer this opportunity to pay as a restitution settlement. The amount due is £206.95. This offer is available until 17/08/2026. All payments must be made in full.
Railcards & Digital Tickets:
If you have any evidence that you feel is relevant then please email us a copy to revenuerecoveryteam@gwr.com. Please ensure you include your full name and reference number (at the top of this letter).
Payment:
If you wish to accept our settlement offer available until 17/08/2026, there are two ways to pay,

· Online with a credit or debit card at gwr.com/revenueprotection
· By calling us on 0330 1749 524.
Please ensure that you have your reference number available when calling. This is a payment only line, we are unable to discuss your case over the telephone.
Failure To Settle:
Traveling without a valid ticket could constitute a criminal offence. If you fail to pay by 17/08/2026, we reserve the right to institute a criminal prosecution, and/or a civil money claim.

You can read our Revenue Protection & Prosecutions Policy in full at gwr.com/revenueprotection.

Yours sincerely

 

[Sun Chariot]

Hello @praza12345 can you help us understand exactly why your calculations (and your attached screen shots) use a 16-17 Saver?
Your Post 1 told you are in your 20s and that you did not hold any Railcard (regardless of you having applied 16-17 Railcard discount onto your purchased-and-used tickets).

Use the Adult Anytime Single ticket type (and value) for each of your calculations. GWR can - and might well have - added their administration charge on top.

 

[praza12345]

Hello @praza12345 can you help us understand exactly why your calculations (and your attached screen shots) use a 16-17 Saver?
Your Post 1 told you are in your 20s and that you did not hold any Railcard (regardless of you having applied 16-17 Railcard discount onto your purchased-and-used tickets).

Use the Adult Anytime Single ticket type (and value) for each of your calculations. GWR can - and might well have - added their administration charge on top.

In my calculation, I assumed that the 'undiscounted fare price' referred only to the fare without the 16–17 Railcard discount which I applied, and not that it also excluded the SplitSave discounts.

I can't find the original ticket prices for my last two journeys, but the original price for my first journey was £87.40 and after applying the split saver and 16-17 discounts it became 39.40. Based on that, the calculation would be:

(£87.40 × 3) − £110.57 = ~£151.63

 

[LYradial]

It seems to me they have charged the cost of the tickets without the share of savings (which goes to the retailer not the railway)
plus £100 admin.

this seems to me to be very reasonable, I would pay it quick

 

[praza12345]

Sure

It seems to me they have charged the cost of the tickets without the share of savings (which goes to the retailer not the railway)
plus £100 admin.

this seems to me to be very reasonable, I would pay it quick

Sure Just wanted to confirm with you guys first.

 

[furlong]

Firstly, where were you when you were spoken to? Was it on the train BEFORE Maidenhead, or AFTER that point?

The rules can be interpreted differently for the day on which you were spoken to as compared to the previous journeys.
The ticket splitting (and fee) makes it a little more complicated.

 

[Haywain]

Firstly, where were you when you were spoken to? Was it on the train BEFORE Maidenhead, or AFTER that point?

It doesn't matter - arguing about details will simply accelerate the route to a prosecution.

The rules can be interpreted differently for the day on which you were spoken to as compared to the previous journeys.

As this is an out of court settlement being offered, can you clarify which rules you think apply?

 

[praza12345]

Firstly, where were you when you were spoken to? Was it on the train BEFORE Maidenhead, or AFTER that point?

The rules can be interpreted differently for the day on which you were spoken to as compared to the previous journeys.
The ticket splitting (and fee) makes it a little more complicated.

I was on the train to Maidenhead when I was stopped.
In what can the rules be interpreted?

 

[furlong]

And was that outward between Oxford and Maidenhead (in which case did you already buy a new ticket to get home later?) or the return from London (in which case before or after West Drayton)? Basically which of the tickets was in use when you were spoken to? And were you on a service that stopped at each station where you changed from one ticket to the next?

 

[Haywain]

I was on the train to Maidenhead when I was stopped.
In what can the rules be interpreted?

There is no interpretation. You were stopped for travelling without a valid ticket and can be prosecuted for that single offence. GWR will settle the matter in return for payment of the amount requested above.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I was on the train to Maidenhead when I was stopped.
In what can the rules be interpreted?

The return part of the Oxford to Maidenhead ticket wouldn't have been used so wasn't part of travelling with an invalid ticket. But it doesn't matter, they've offered an out of court settlement which can be accepted or you can allow them to prosecute for the travel so far.

That also poses the question as to whether a valid ticket was purchased or otherwise authorised for the final Maidenhead to Oxford stretch.