Irish Mk 3s for sale

[CP165]

As you may have heard around 80 loco hauled Mk 3s are for sale from Irish Rail, but who will actually buy and use them? Who would you like to see buy and use them? What would you like to see done to prior to service? Thoughts please!

I'll start buy saying that these could be a Mk 2 replacement on Scotrail Caledonian Sleeper services or ATW loco hauled services perhaps.

Cheers

 

[SouthEastern-465]

As you may have heard around 80 loco hauled Mk 3s are for sale from Irish Rail, but who will actually buy and use them? Who would you like to see buy and use them? What would you like to see done to prior to service? Thoughts please!

I'll start buy saying that these could be a Mk 2 replacement on Scotrail Caledonian Sleeper services or ATW loco hauled services perhaps.

Cheers

I read in Todays Railway ages ago about the Irish Mk3 being re-gauged an sent over to England as 'additional Mk3s'?

 

[CP165]

I read in Todays Railway ages ago about the Irish Mk3 being re-gauged an sent over to England as 'additional Mk3s'?

That's quite likely but I don't think any have actually been purchased yet

 

[swt_passenger]

I read in Todays Railway ages ago about the Irish Mk3 being re-gauged an sent over to England as 'additional Mk3s'?

They've been inviting offers for many months - no-one is interested.

 

[CP165]

They've been inviting offers for many months - no-one is interested.

I would have thought that extra rolling stock would be taken pretty quickly

 

[swt_passenger]

I would have thought that extra rolling stock would be taken pretty quickly

Then you just don't understand the way the DfT controls exactly what the the TOCs can or can't do - especially with rolling stock.

I take it you've followed the DfT's running of the ex-LM 150 cascade?

 

[NightatLaira]

It's a shame we won't buy them and regauge them. As said earlier - they'd make great replacements to Mk2s or even as additions to XC loco hauled sets.

 

[YorkshireBear]

apparently it closes on 2nd september and they do have interested parties. I dont know if it would be for extra mk3 sets for loco hauled.

 

[WatcherZero]

I would think the Dft would support someone acquiring them, they should *in theory* be cheaper to run and free stock temporarily for refurbs.

 

[swt_passenger]

apparently it closes on 2nd september and they do have interested parties. I dont know if it would be for extra mk3 sets for loco hauled.

They can't be loco hauled easily unless their ETS is changed. The Irish used generator vans with them, but AIUI they are electrically similar to HST coaches...

 

[CP165]

I take it you've followed the DfT's running of the ex-LM 150 cascade?

Yes I have but not to a great extent. I usually just read about it in magazines and sometimes on the forum.

 

[tbtc]

Then you just don't understand the way the DfT controls exactly what the the TOCs can or can't do - especially with rolling stock.

I take it you've followed the DfT's running of the ex-LM 150 cascade?

Running or ruining?

 

[Rhydgaled]

It's a shame we won't buy them and regauge them. As said earlier - they'd make great replacements to Mk2s or even as additions to XC loco hauled sets.

Agreed on replacing mark 2s, unlike mark 3s I doubt anyone's going to want to make the mark 2s disability compliant. XC don't have any loco-hauled sets though do they? It's a shame Arriva won't put their spare mark 2s into service with either franchise (or are they actually owned by the ATW subsiduary?).

 

[route:oxford]

Sometimes, I do wonder if the best course of action would have been for Irish Rail to re-gauge, re-wire and re-engineer a few rakes of the stock themselves. Ideally licensing (if necessary) the same door controls that Chiltern are using for their power door Mk3s for compatability.

Then launch their own British ROSCO

Or open-access operation.

The merest hint of commencing their own mainland operation would probably have had some existing ROSCOs eager with their Euros.

 

[bladesman123]

Replace some northern pacers with 1 or 2 mk3's hauled by an 08

 

[sprinterguy]

It's a shame Arriva won't put their spare mark 2s into service with either franchise (or are they actually owned by the ATW subsiduary?).

The mark 2s are indeed owned by the ATW subsidiary, which tbh is where they could be best used, and indeed really should be used, making use of a few of Virgins' 57s which aren't particularly intensively used at the moment.

The inability of the rail industry to respond to the current passenger boom and take advantage of the spare rolling stock that is available for use highlights one of the biggest flaws of the privatised railway: Any other industry that was experiencing the sort of levels of growth in its' services that the railways currently are would surely be investing in additional product/capacity.

 

[route:oxford]

Replace some northern pacers with 1 or 2 mk3's hauled by an 08

I took the Chiltern Service to Bicester* yesterday, given the sedate speed that the service travels at (which I know will be improved over time), Mk3s top'd and tailed by and 08 would probably work.

Not sure if the same might work on the Windsor, Henley & Marlow services.

Hotel power would, of course be needed.

 

[colchesterken]

would it be possible to rebogie the Irish mk3 with bogies from stored sleepers and redundant restaurant buffets which could be stored "on bricks" for further use if needed

 

[sprinterguy]

would it be possible to rebogie the Irish mk3 with bogies from stored sleepers and redundant restaurant buffets which could be stored "on bricks" for further use if needed

It would probably be the most cost effective solution, however there aren't as many out of use sleepers lying around as there once were, most of the surplus ones having been sold off to preserved railways for a new life as volunteers' accomodation or scrapped. I can count, from the Platform 5 book, about 11 out of use mark 3 sleepers, although if you also throw in the disused restaurant vehicles then there'd probably be enough critical mass to rebogie a decent number of carriages.

 

[CP165]

Mk3s wouldn't be suitable on Henley Marlow and Windsor branches because I don't know if they could be cleared due to their size and weight compared with DMUs, and also line speed on the Henley branch (Probably Marlow and Windsor also but i'm not 100% sure) is lower for loco hauled sets. So that combined with slower acceleration would not be suitable, especially in the peak. Bit of a shame really.

 

[route:oxford]

Mk3s wouldn't be suitable on Henley Marlow and Windsor branches because I don't know if they could be cleared due to their size and weight compared with DMUs, and also line speed on the Henley branch (Probably Marlow and Windsor also but i'm not 100% sure) is lower for loco hauled sets. So that combined with slower acceleration would not be suitable, especially in the peak. Bit of a shame really.

Isn't a Mk3 smaller than a 165/166?

 

[TDK]

would it be possible to rebogie the Irish mk3 with bogies from stored sleepers and redundant restaurant buffets which could be stored "on bricks" for further use if needed

It's not the Mk3 availability that is a problem it is the bogies, where are all these redundant coaches?

 

[CP165]

Isn't a Mk3 smaller than a 165/166?

I think I read somewhere the turbos are wider but the Mk3s are taller

 

[tbtc]

Sometimes, I do wonder if the best course of action would have been for Irish Rail to re-gauge, re-wire and re-engineer a few rakes of the stock themselves. Ideally licensing (if necessary) the same door controls that Chiltern are using for their power door Mk3s for compatability.

Then launch their own British ROSCO

Or open-access operation.

The merest hint of commencing their own mainland operation would probably have had some existing ROSCOs eager with their Euros.

That is an interesting idea - it'd eliminate the "risk" for UK TOCs, since they'd be taking on something that needed no adaptation (since all conversion had been done in Ireland)...

...it'd give some (much needed) jobs in Ireland too, to convert them...

...makes sense to me.

 

[CP165]

That is an interesting idea - it'd eliminate the "risk" for UK TOCs, since they'd be taking on something that needed no adaptation (since all conversion had been done in Ireland)...

...it'd give some (much needed) jobs in Ireland too, to convert them...

...makes sense to me.

It makes alot of sense. These coaches could be put to use in so many places and in so many circumstances.

 

[jopsuk]

That is an interesting idea - it'd eliminate the "risk" for UK TOCs, since they'd be taking on something that needed no adaptation (since all conversion had been done in Ireland)...

...it'd give some (much needed) jobs in Ireland too, to convert them...

...makes sense to me.

However, the ICR purchase will likely have cleared out the coffers at IE, and given the financial situation I doubt they'd be able to easily obtain the finance, especially given that a return on the investment is dependent upon the micromanaging at the DfT.

 

[shaun]

Isn't this the sort of stock that Open Access Operators such as GNWR/GNER and Co-Operative are after for their new services? Also, would be nice to get a handful to Grand Central to release their HSTs to take over more Edinburgh - Plymouth CrossCountry services.

 

[jopsuk]

How would it be of use to GC? For GC, the carriages would need to have 125mph bogies, a 125mph DVT and a 125mph loco.

 

[Peter Sarf]

How would it be of use to GC? For GC, the carriages would need to have 125mph bogies, a 125mph DVT and a 125mph loco.

Ah, thinking along the lines of a new RosCo. Maybe an excuse for some TRAXX locos ?. Bombardier could perhaps help fund the alterations (in a joint venture) to the Irish Mk3s. Derby is, I assume, familiar with them and it could help keep them busy later.

Side rant - I still think we should not build NEW hybrids and this is an opportunity to show we have perfectly good LHCS that can be used with various locos. Also slap an electric loco behind existing HST power cars and use that to take Far North trains as far as Edinburgh. Could make the HSTs longer and use diesel under the wires to help acceleration/recovery. Generally The diesel speed/acceleration beyond the wires is not so important - if it was then the relevent route would probably justify electrification ?. Its only the electrifed part that needs the best power.

 

[tbtc]

Ah, thinking along the lines of a new RosCo. Maybe an excuse for some TRAXX locos ?. Bombardier could perhaps help fund the alterations (in a joint venture) to the Irish Mk3s. Derby is, I assume, familiar with them and it could help keep them busy later.

Side rant - I still think we should not build NEW hybrids and this is an opportunity to show we have perfectly good LHCS that can be used with various locos. Also slap an electric loco behind existing HST power cars and use that to take Far North trains as far as Edinburgh. Could make the HSTs longer and use diesel under the wires to help acceleration/recovery. Generally The diesel speed/acceleration beyond the wires is not so important - if it was then the relevent route would probably justify electrification ?. Its only the electrifed part that needs the best power.

It is important for XC, certainly, hence the quick acceleration of their Voyagers

As for building new locos to haul these old coaches, thats going to mess up the business case for it