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When will it go all wrong for the SNP?
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
The election results rather suggest otherwise.
So as I said: they didn’t find anything they could build into a case. It isn’t hard to pass the charging threshold.
A year is nothing after a divorce.
Obviously it’s wrong to steal £400,000 from party donors, but I’m also curious as to how the Scottish justice system has managed to do so much so quickly against Murrell but has done sweet Fanny Adams against Michelle Mone.
Labour trying to claim the political high ground after what Scottish Labour got up to with their own leadership election rigging- funded by Laura Kuennsberg’s father’s- is hilarious too. Not to mention all that money that Labour Together “forgot” to declare to the authorities.
I’m no fan of the SNP but it’s feels off to me that the police have been so diligent about investigating this particular fraud whereas they’ve just completely ignored more complex Covid-related fraud.
Buzby
Established Member
I doubt ‘Scottish justice’ has any role to play with Mone. A Manx resident, and a London-based business with her husband who I believe is not estranged.
I suspect the diligence is because the SNP has taken it to the point where anything less would be impossible to defend, while the timing of the criminal process does nothing to undermine suggestions of politicisation of the judicial system in Scotland.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
It should. She’s in Glasgow a lot. More than she is here.
IlkleyRunner
Member
Just to clarify - the police did not ask the Procurator Fiscal to take the case forward against either Sturogeon or the poor patsie treasurer. The PF confirmed the police decision with the Crown Counsel and let the matter rest. There is a FOI statment on all of this kicking around somewhere.
Looking at https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/copfs?page=1 there doesn't appear to be a relevant FOI. I would be surprised if there was one stating why the case was closed as surely that would be exempt?
It may be just the reporting, but stories such as https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25023865.peter-murrell-court-embezzlement-charge/ aren't phrased such that it was the police deciding not to take it further.
FOI statement or not, no one is seriously suggesting that Sturgeon was guilty of a crime. But she is doing a lot of work to hide behind Peter Murrell's crimes to sidestep political accountability - a position that is particularly dubious given her willingness to shred Westminster ministers over their accountability for what were acts of others.
"Do as I say not as I do" is not an attractive position.
Buzby
Established Member
I might have missed something, but ‘where she is’ is hardly of any relevance- especially if the ‘evidence’ is wholly within England. (Westminster, Company & financial records et al) The Tories thought well of her and won’t like a foreign force unpicking their decisions. The directoship of a Manx financial operation should not be overlooked… who said ‘follow the money’?
For her - not especially. For the SNP - quite a lot more. It may be that they seem invincible but I remember there being a time when Boris Johnson* was considered invincible, as in when the Tories won the Hartlepool by-election.
* - if you remember, this cartoonish and largely politically forgotten figure best known for his unruly hair served as Prime Minister for a few years from 2019.
Gloster
Veteran Member
How can we forget, much as we would like to.
NB5025
Member
Its certainly funny to see her and her husband become figures of fun for those who could see through them for years. I got a particular laugh from her saying she never saw the campervan after today's newspaper photos of it visible from space. The media seems to be focusing on her at home, but she also never noticed at work, yet others did and she shut them down. Not that she was involved of course (!) I hope she keeps talking, the more she does the more daft she sounds.
The SNP has cult - like tendencies, which is why they could have fraud going on in the first place. I don't see them not being successful electorally, but what they don't talk about is that beyond them only getting 1/3 of the vote, nearly 50% - half of voters at the Scottish election didn't vote. They aren't sitting at home content with the status quo, or happy with whoever gets in, no they hate all the corrupt politicians. The SNP may do fine, but democracy up here is on borrowed time. I don't recall a single candidate coming round the doors. Maybe that was a sensible move, members of the public are not journalists, we don't ask polite questions we tell them what we think of them.
The SNP has cult - like tendencies, which is why they could have fraud going on in the first place. I don't see them not being successful electorally, but what they don't talk about is that beyond them only getting 1/3 of the vote, nearly 50% - half of voters at the Scottish election didn't vote. They aren't sitting at home content with the status quo, or happy with whoever gets in, no they hate all the corrupt politicians. The SNP may do fine, but democracy up here is on borrowed time. I don't recall a single candidate coming round the doors. Maybe that was a sensible move, members of the public are not journalists, we don't ask polite questions we tell them what we think of them.
d9009alycidon
Member
Si
Is it not a bit odd that as you state the pair split last year and announced that the would be getting divorced, and that she claims to be totally disgusted with him, the divorce case has not yet gone through the courts. Could the financial settlement that usually comes with a divorce throw up further embarrassing facts?
Is it not a bit odd that as you state the pair split last year and announced that the would be getting divorced, and that she claims to be totally disgusted with him, the divorce case has not yet gone through the courts. Could the financial settlement that usually comes with a divorce throw up further embarrassing facts?
Possibly, but I suspect there's also the minor matter that until the court cases are over, the value of the property to split can't be known.
Falcon1200
Established Member
Which is a never-ending mystery to me! But there is a proportion of the population who wish independence, and the SNP is, and always has been, the natural home for their votes. Plus, as mentioned, the alternatives were not necessarily attractive.
Although the election did of course, somehow one wonders, predate the revelation of Murrell's guilt.
The other recent news is that Sturgeon wants to relocate to London, and if resident there, would be unable to vote in a Scottish independence referendum!
Buzby
Established Member
Everyone knew anyway, and the tent-in-the-garden scenario predated the 2026 elections. As I recall, he wasn’t ’found guilty’ as he plead guilty. The current media circus of what the money was spent on seems the modern equivalent of medieval stocks. A book of Motorhome Sites in England & Wales for his RV (that he never got to drive anywhere) I wonder if he noticed the habitation door was on the wrong side for UK travelling?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Not an issue - she can decide which is her primary residence…. Just like Melania!
Which is why the timing is so convenient - all about him before, and the difficult for the SNP questions from the likes of Joanna Cherry were limited by what could and couldn't be said before the criminal trial had been held.Everyone knew anyway, and the tent-in-the-garden scenario predated the 2026 elections. As I recall, he wasn’t ’found guilty’ as he plead guilty. The current media circus of what the money was spent on seems the modern equivalent of medieval stocks. A book of Motorhome Sites in England & Wales for his RV (that he never got to drive anywhere) I wonder if he noticed the habitation door was on the wrong side for UK travelling?
The danger for the SNP is not Peter Murrell's spending, or his estranged wife's blindness to it. It's the combination of the then party-leader's defence of the SNP's financial integrity and determined prevention of scrutiny, combined with the weak record of the SNP in government. When (and it is "when", not "if") that comes up for challenge, the SNP will struggle.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
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There's some pretty simple questions the SNP need to answer around basic financial controls. Was no-one reviewing what was going through on charge cards (like a £37,500 payment for a motorhome!)? Did no-one question why the CEO was approving his own expenses and was "unable to submit receipts as he couldn't access the expenses system"? How was he able to make bank transfers for sizeable values without a second authoriser on the account?
Those are basic financial controls. If the SNP can't even get those things right, what does that say about their competence to govern a country.
Also avoiding the higher rates of income tax that the SNP - led by her - have implemented in Scotland!
Only if her current income takes her into that bracket. I've no idea what her source(s) of income is/are these days.
Falcon1200
Established Member
Book deals and signings must bring in a bit. I doubt she is struggling or paying basic rate income tax.
Stathern Jc
Member
Probably important to clarify that higher tax rates in Scotland should not be confused with the "Higher Rate" of Income Tax.
In Scotland the 42% rate of income tax, which is higher than the 40% in the rest of the country, applies on income of more than £31,092 over an individuals tax-free amount. Also, in the band below that point Income Tax in Scotland will be 21% rather than 20%.
So for anyone without any adjustments to their Tax Code, the 42% Tax Rate will apply to anything over £43,662.
So, if she is able to pay the rent for the property she moved to in London, it seems highly likely that @el-blanco will be correct and Sturgeons Income Tax will now be subject to a lower rate than those she oversaw the introduction of in Scotland.
On Income Tax in Scotland. The SNP do like to tell us that a large number of people in Scotland pay less Income Tax than those on a similar income in the rest of the country. I can't recall what the point beyond which we are worse off is now, but think it is around £29k.
But they are very slow to quantify how much less income tax those people pay and don't tell us that it is actually only about £40 less per annum, i.e. their generosity is around 80p/week.
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IlkleyRunner
Member
Found it...
Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service updates regarding Operation Branchform: FOI release
Information request and response under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002.
www.gov.scot
The document itself is quite lengthy but the relevant sections are
I've removed some of the obvious bits regarding the charging of Murrell below
Precisely - grifters can often find rich pickings in mission-driven organisations
Buzby
Established Member
I didn’t think it needed expansion. I truly doubt she would avoid having her Indy vote counted simply because she rents a flat in the smoke. Her domicile would likely remain unchanged (as many of my southern friends do likewise). Everyone assumes the same 2016 rules would apply, but they could just as easily be replaced with a vote to be allowed if you were born in Scotland, so ex-pats worldwide would get a voice.
Assuming no changes, what would be especially interesting is if she changes her domicile to England given the different tax rates in Scotland.