TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[John R]

It would be for any crew who wish to hold heavy rail qualifications that currently work there I suppose, especially if they do go ahead and continue to convert it long term. Quite a difference in wages and conditions compared to heavy rail. That’s if it happens!

I have a suspicion that this comment has let slip the reasons why all the complaints about the 398s and incessantly knocking the whole TAM lines project.

 

[chrisjo]

398019, 398024, 398028, 398029, 398030 and 398031 are the only functional units I believe

 

[AdamWW]

Seems these three diagrams will run a half hourly service, PPD-CDB-CDQ-CDB-PPD and repeat (PPD pontypridd, CDB cardiff bay, CDQ Cardiff Queen Street), the short hop back to Queen Styreet meaning a 15 minute service to the Bay. It remains to be seen whether all, some, or none of them will be operated by 398s on any particular date in Juine...............

Looks like exactly the same passenger service as at present - four trains an hour to/from the Bay but not at even intervals.
But coming out of/going to Taffs Well rather than Canton at the start/end.

 

[trainspotter4]

398019, 398024, 398028, 398029, 398030 and 398031 are the only functional units I believe. The rest of them are in a form of not to be moved mode.

I checked back in this week with a former colleague to see how things are progressing, and driver and guard training has began, even though they have no units ready yet.

I can’t see them coming out in June, and they are most likely not going to achieve the spring target that was set.

They’ve also had issues this week with saloon temperatures exceeding comfortable levels so runs have had to be cancelled too.

It’s on a thermostat to around 22 degrees and cannot be adjusted.

It’s forecast to rain next week, so expect cancellations, they don’t like wet weather these things I’ve been informed.

Seems 398017 is also functional as it was out yesterday and today (albeit did only get as far as Pontypridd this morning on 3Q00) alongside 019/024 today. They do seem to be getting more units into 'serviceable' (even ish) state as for a while we were only really seeing 024/030/031 so it's looking semi-positive to have 7 units now being used for testing runs.

 

[tfw756rider]

I've only just noticed that - as of the 25th of may - RTT has begun appropriately identifying the units as "Class 398XXX" rather than a "Class 150/153/155/156 DMU". Small update.

Can you link us an example schedule please?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Looks like exactly the same passenger service as at present - four trains an hour to/from the Bay but not at even intervals.
But coming out of/going to Taffs Well rather than Canton at the start/end.

At this early stage it seems prudent to keep them "captive" to the Pontpridd/Bay section (which has 8tph) and not stray further up the valleys where the frequency is 2tph and a cancellation would have a greater impact.

 

[AdamWW]

At this early stage it seems prudent to keep them "captive" to the Pontpridd/Bay section (which has 8tph) and not stray further up the valleys where the frequency is 2tph and a cancellation would have a greater impact.

On the other hand if they fail and block the line, the further up the Valleys the better in terms of disruption.

 

[BillStampy]

Can you link us an example schedule please?

Realtime Trains | 3Q40 0010 Taffs Well Depot to Treherbert | 28/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 3Q40 0010 departure from Taffs Well Depot to Treherbert on 28/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[VR494]

I have a suspicion that this comment has let slip the reasons why all the complaints about the 398s and incessantly knocking the whole TAM lines project.

If the government wants to save money I can see them trying it, well it’s no doubt in the plan and always has been here. It’s probably going to save a fortune in running costs long term if they succeed as well.

Let’s look at the current situation, what’s the wage now for a driver and guard combined to work a train in Wales? 76k just in one driver’s wages alone, plus another 50k for the conductor. Combined with a guard, that’s one expensive tram. Multi-that by the amount they want running, and the infrastructure costs. Too much money there, and they got nothing left to margin with.

How can we lower the cost per mile for passengers? Let’s bring in a team from the civil service to run the company, split off the Valleys from mainline infrastructure, buy a load of trams, get them in a combined mode to start off, ring fence the staff in a depot and create a divided workspace. Move TAM operations over to group side of the business and isolate them from future rail contract agreements. I think it’s 90 days notice, that’s all they need to give. And all staff will be trained as tram drivers anyway to operate over the bay, so they’ve already got them signed up. Let’s expand it and make your competence smaller and smaller.

Once the TAM and CAR operations are up and running next year it’ll all start to come to light.

 

[Caaardiff]

How can we lower the cost per mile for passengers? Let’s bring in a team from the civil service to run the company, split off the Valleys from mainline infrastructure, buy a load of trams, get them in a combined mode to start off, ring fence the staff in a depot and create a divided workspace. Move TAM operations over to group side of the business and isolate them from future rail contract agreements. I think it’s 90 days notice, that’s all they need to give. And all staff will be trained as tram drivers anyway to operate over the bay, so they’ve already got them signed up. Let’s expand it and make your competence smaller and smaller.

Once the TAM and CAR operations are up and running next year it’ll all start to come to light.

Bold, bizarre and unsubstantiated claims. Conspiracy theories at their best.

 

[Tram Inn SB]

Has it been determined if the faults are as a result of poor build from Stadler or due to TFW's lack of care while they've been sat around? Two very different outcomes. If it's manufacturer issue then surely they wouldn't sell them back, they'd be seeking Stadler to fix or replace.


The 231's won't go to mainline if the trams aren't in service. There aren't enough 150's to cover Valleys work. Things will run as it does now.

It would be for any crew who wish to hold heavy rail qualifications that currently work there I suppose, especially if they do go ahead and continue to convert it long term. Quite a difference in wages and conditions compared to heavy rail. That’s if it happens!

Also for this to work there needs to be additional investment in job opportunities for local businesses. Most of the industries have closed down in the valleys. Customers currently want two tickets on the valleys, one to Cardiff for work, and another to Barry island when it’s sunny.

The Welsh government’s decision to lock in a network of 398’s so they can create short journeys and have customers changing trains like the tube, it’s not really going to work. The uptake on the new late night service hasn’t been very good either I’ve been told.

They should not be removing direct links outside of the valleys in my opinion, especially when we have an airport that is crying out for business from the valleys.

As much as I can’t stand the things there is no way TfW will drop the project in any shape or form, to much money and political pressure is being placed on them.

Sell them back to Stadler….what do you do with a purpose built depot at Taff Well, that no other unit can use ?

Simply isn’t going to happen, they’ll be botched into a minimum service condition and we’ll have to put up with them for the next 35 years.

 

[Tram Inn SB]

Forgive me for saying this, but as a passenger I really don’t care. All I care about is a service that will run twice as frequently will be much more convenient.

I presume there has been a huge increase in drivers too in anticipation of the increase in service frequency. I doubt any of those can complain if one consequence of their employment is a restriction to the trains and services which they were specifically hired to operate.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2026 ==

“But I wanted to drive big trains.”
“Tough, we employed you to drive tram trains.”

I suspect there will be issues when / if over the course of their career TfW decide to reduce their competency to tram driver striping out many network rail competencies so it’s impossible to transfer to mainline or another TOC.

There are plans (where plans) to create a light rail only link for the on street running when it got expanded off phase one.

 

[Tram Inn SB]

How is that any different to other rolling stock already in use? Ive been on gwr turbos and 158s this week that have had "temperatures exceeding comfortable levels"!

You can open limited saloon windows on the 158/16x sets, I assume the 398 wwo

If the government wants to save money I can see them trying it, well it’s no doubt in the plan and always has been here. It’s probably going to save a fortune in running costs long term if they succeed as well.

Let’s look at the current situation, what’s the wage now for a driver and guard combined to work a train in Wales? 76k just in one driver’s wages alone, plus another 50k for the conductor. Combined with a guard, that’s one expensive tram. Multi-that by the amount they want running, and the infrastructure costs. Too much money there, and they got nothing left to margin with.

How can we lower the cost per mile for passengers? Let’s bring in a team from the civil service to run the company, split off the Valleys from mainline infrastructure, buy a load of trams, get them in a combined mode to start off, ring fence the staff in a depot and create a divided workspace. Move TAM operations over to group side of the business and isolate them from future rail contract agreements. I think it’s 90 days notice, that’s all they need to give. And all staff will be trained as tram drivers anyway to operate over the bay, so they’ve already got them signed up. Let’s expand it and make your competence smaller and smaller.

Once the TAM and CAR operations are up and running next year it’ll all start to come to light.

There’s a reason why the Rhymney and TAM operations where split….I think you’ll see this happen to be honest and it makes sense, alot of the indications from within also add weight.

But the 398s need to be in traffic and running relatively well before any split or segregation can even be considered.

 

[Tram Inn SB]

Bold, bizarre and unsubstantiated claims. Conspiracy theories at their best.

I’m as afraid not, a heavy / light rail separation and reduction in standards to maintenance and crewing that follows has been on the cards since the wales and borders franchise way back in 2001!

First Group proposed the concept in their unsuccessful bid. Although freight was still significant back then, something that isn’t an issue anymore.

 

[John R]

If the government wants to save money I can see them trying it, well it’s no doubt in the plan and always has been here. It’s probably going to save a fortune in running costs long term if they succeed as well.

Let’s look at the current situation, what’s the wage now for a driver and guard combined to work a train in Wales? 76k just in one driver’s wages alone, plus another 50k for the conductor. Combined with a guard, that’s one expensive tram. Multi-that by the amount they want running, and the infrastructure costs. Too much money there, and they got nothing left to margin with.

How can we lower the cost per mile for passengers? Let’s bring in a team from the civil service to run the company, split off the Valleys from mainline infrastructure, buy a load of trams, get them in a combined mode to start off, ring fence the staff in a depot and create a divided workspace. Move TAM operations over to group side of the business and isolate them from future rail contract agreements. I think it’s 90 days notice, that’s all they need to give. And all staff will be trained as tram drivers anyway to operate over the bay, so they’ve already got them signed up. Let’s expand it and make your competence smaller and smaller.

Once the TAM and CAR operations are up and running next year it’ll all start to come to light.

If that means a more cost effective and efficient public transport system then I am sure the taxpayers of Wales would welcome it, especially if it could then result in further improvements.

Apparently tram drivers in Manchester are paid between £33k and 45k, and so 76k would appear rather top end if I'm being honest. I'm not sure what difference the responsibilities are between travelling from Bury to Altrincham, and Treherbert and Cardiff Bay, other than the former have more street running which is arguably more difficult given it's not segregated.

 

[Chris125]

Plenty of runs scheduled for today: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-05-30/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[trainspotter4]

Seems there was test runs last night using 398028 likely to see battery life on the longest stretches the 398s will go off-wire (Radyr-Central-Radyr): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-05-30/0100-0400?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt. No break down but obviously no delays etc so but nice to see this.

 

[Tram Inn SB]

Seems there was test runs last night using 398028 likely to see battery life on the longest stretches the 398s will go off-wire (Radyr-Central-Radyr): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-05-30/0100-0400?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt. No break down but obviously no delays etc so but nice to see this.

Are the tests done under real life conditions though, as in HVAC equipment operating, full lights etc or a on minimums ?

 

[AdamWW]

I happened to be in Taffs Well at the right time to see a 398 leave the depot and another one come in today.

They both stopped at the station and opened the doors, presumably in the same way as if in passenger service. Perhaps it was my imagination but the steps seemed a bit quicker than a 756.

I had got the impression that there weren't any fixed tables in the 398s but both had two bays of seats round a table at each end.
I presume these are staying and aren't just temporary fittings so that staff have somewhere to put their laptops on test runs.

 

[800001]

I happened to be in Taffs Well at the right time to see a 398 leave the depot and another one come in today.

They both stopped at the station and opened the doors, presumably in the same way as if in passenger service. Perhaps it was my imagination but the steps seemed a bit quicker than a 756.

I had got the impression that there weren't any fixed tables in the 398s but both had two bays of seats round a table at each end.
I presume these are staying and aren't just temporary fittings so that staff have somewhere to put their laptops on test runs.

Does a 398 have the retractable step for level boarding?

If not that may explain your belief that the door opening procedure is quicker.

 

[AdamWW]

Does a 398 have the retractable step for level boarding?

If not that may explain your belief that the door opening procedure is quicker.

Yes they do - I don't think you can have a train in the UK that offers level boarding at existing platform heights without some kind of gap filler.

And that's what I was attempting to say - the time for the steps to come out and retract seemed quicker than on a FLIRT.
But I'm quite prepared to believe that I'm wrong.

I couldn't judge the overall dwell time because only one door was opened.
It looked as if the guard was signalling to the driver to close doors rather than doing it themselves but I don't know if with passengers it would need to be the drawn-out two stage procedure (close all except local door, check all is well, then close local door) that the 756s and 231s use.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2026 ==

Looks from Realtimetrains as if the 398 test runs so far today have all been cancelled.

 

[Daniel Boone]

Looks from Realtimetrains as if the 398 test runs so far today have all been cancelled.

They tend not to run on Sundays.

 

[MikePJ]

Some overnight test runs for 398s to Cardiff Bay have now appeared on RealTimeTrains for 9th-12th June https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-06-09/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2026 ==

I will try and check later today to see if there's any evidence of the wires having been energised - they were supposed to go live yesterday according to a notice posted at Queen Street (picture in the Metro Updates thread here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-wales-metro-updates.117763/page-276#post-7792240). If the switchgear at Butetown is in the "closed" position (it was "open" last week) then that'll suggest that the wires are live.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2026 ==

Not sure whether this is just an artefact of planning, but 398 testing/training paths in RealTimeTrains currently end on Friday 5th June, with a two-week gap, and then what appear to be planned service paths for 398s appearing from 22nd June.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Taffs Well Depot all day on 22/06/2026

Train information at Taffs Well Depot all day on 22/06/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Interestingly, this has been pushed back a week - the week of the 22nd's paths have been removed, and it seems that some 398 service paths have appeared starting on Saturday 27th and Sunday 28th June. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-06-27/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[chargesmith]

Some overnight test runs for 398s to Cardiff Bay have now appeared on RealTimeTrains for 9th-12th June https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-06-09/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2026 ==

I will try and check later today to see if there's any evidence of the wires having been energised - they were supposed to go live yesterday according to a notice posted at Queen Street (picture in the Metro Updates thread here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-wales-metro-updates.117763/page-276#post-7792240). If the switchgear at Butetown is in the "closed" position (it was "open" last week) then that'll suggest that the wires are live.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2026 ==


Interestingly, this has been pushed back a week - the week of the 22nd's paths have been removed, and it seems that some 398 service paths have appeared starting on Saturday 27th and Sunday 28th June. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-06-27/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

All sounds positive, let's see if any additional info comes out / what happens.

 

[Tram Inn SB]

Some overnight test runs for 398s to Cardiff Bay have now appeared on RealTimeTrains for 9th-12th June https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-06-09/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2026 ==

I will try and check later today to see if there's any evidence of the wires having been energised - they were supposed to go live yesterday according to a notice posted at Queen Street (picture in the Metro Updates thread here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-wales-metro-updates.117763/page-276#post-7792240). If the switchgear at Butetown is in the "closed" position (it was "open" last week) then that'll suggest that the wires are live.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2026 ==


Interestingly, this has been pushed back a week - the week of the 22nd's paths have been removed, and it seems that some 398 service paths have appeared starting on Saturday 27th and Sunday 28th June. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-06-27/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The OLE went live early on 31/05/26

There is a two car restriction on the bay with the OLE live, anything longer than 2 cars needs an isolation this is due to the addtional insulated rail joints being installed.

 

[chrisjo]

They tend not to run on Sundays.

That'll be something else to add to the list of supposed defects / failings then !!!

 

[AdamWW]

The OLE went live early on 31/05/26

There is a two car restriction on the bay with the OLE live, anything longer than 2 cars needs an isolation this is due to the addtional insulated rail joints being installed.

What is "2 cars" in this context?

I'm used to it meaning carriages in which case a single 398 would appear to exceed it so I presume that's not what is meant here.

 

[MikePJ]

Here are some photos of switchgear that confirm the wires are live.

 

[VR494]

There’s still many ongoing issues, some which are supposedly linked to the control units or TCU’s. It’s taking around 7-10 seconds on occasions for the brakes to respond when commanded. This has resulted in some runs being cancelled I’ve been told. This was initially thought to be linked to the running in multiple, but also is affecting single units.

Guard and driver training is underway, although running very behind. One course of conductors having to try multiple units just get a module completed due to systems not working; on brand new units!

There also ongoing politics around the door process, onboard safety equipment, including the lack of fire extinguishers in the passenger saloons and fire detection, which is back and forth between training, ops standards and trade union members.

The Bay line is progressing as mentioned above, the units though are far from ready to enter any form of commercial service - with fault free running, interoperability and ORR approval still outstanding.

Be prepared for a difficult few months ahead with unit availability.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jun 2026 ==

Are the tests done under real life conditions though, as in HVAC equipment operating, full lights etc or a on minimums ?

They’ve gone for the lowest specification on the saloon heating system, and instead of the full HVAC, it’s a thermostat system which set to achieve a constant temperature, preprogrammed. It comes with opening windows. The cabs are fully air conditioned, not the saloon. Ignore the specifications in the catalogue they haven’t equipped the 398’s with a lot of the things available from the manufacturer. They could have even come with a toilet!

 

[Tram Inn SB]

What is "2 cars" in this context?

I'm used to it meaning carriages in which case a single 398 would appear to exceed it so I presume that's not what is meant here.

There is a limit length which a single 398 will fit in.