TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[Cardiff123]

Who owns them? Have they not been transferred to the Welsh government? I understand that Amey maintains the infrastructure but I didn't think they owned it.

Core Valley Lines infrastructure manager | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

The Core Valley Lines network was transferred from Network Rail to Transport for Wales on 28 March 2020. Transport for Wales leases its assets to Amey Infrastructure Wales who are the Infrastructure Manager for the Core Valley Lines network.

 

[Dr Day]

The writing is very much on the wall for the future of the TAM, it will slowly be replaced with a system similar to Manchester in the future, featuring a zero timetable as well.

Not sure what you are getting at?

Surely the extra frequency to be genuinely ‘turn up and go’ without a public timetable is a good thing and will ensure the future of those lines with lower operating costs, hence less of a burden on the taxpayer?

Why would the Metro concept put those lines at risk of closure, after all the investment they have had in electrification and more double tracking etc?

 

[WelshBluebird]

The writing is very much on the wall for the future of the TAM, it will slowly be replaced with a system similar to Manchester in the future, featuring a zero timetable as well.

You say that as if its a bad thing!

 

[VR494]

You say that as if it’s a bad thing!

It would be for any crew who wish to hold heavy rail qualifications that currently work there I suppose, especially if they do go ahead and continue to convert it long term. Quite a difference in wages and conditions compared to heavy rail. That’s if it happens!

Also for this to work there needs to be additional investment in job opportunities for local businesses. Most of the industries have closed down in the valleys. Customers currently want two tickets on the valleys, one to Cardiff for work, and another to Barry island when it’s sunny.

The Welsh government’s decision to lock in a network of 398’s so they can create short journeys and have customers changing trains like the tube, it’s not really going to work. The uptake on the new late night service hasn’t been very good either I’ve been told.

They should not be removing direct links outside of the valleys in my opinion, especially when we have an airport that is crying out for business from the valleys.

 

[Caaardiff]

They should not be removing direct links outside of the valleys in my opinion, especially when we have an airport that is crying out for business from the vavalleys.

But there is a link from the Valleys. The Rhymney valleys, which will eventually be 756s to Bridgend.

The nature of the whole Valleys network means someone, somewhere, will need to change trains depending on where they want to go to.

The Welsh government’s decision to lock in a network of 398’s so they can create short journeys and have customers changing trains like the tube, it’s not really going to work. The uptake on the new late night service hasn’t been very good either I’ve been told.

Sign of the times since those plans were looked into. People aren't socialising as much as they used to on nights out.
But there is an increase in events and concerts happening in Cardiff every year which these will cater for.

 

[Envoy]

They should not be removing direct links outside of the valleys in my opinion, especially when we have an airport that is crying out for business from the valleys.

Well, they had business from Toronto on Saturday and the 11.04 train from Rhoose station was a full 2 car 150 & the passengers who had been up all night flying the Atlantic had to stand. What a welcome to Wales! Another arrival from Toronto comes in this morning and the 11.04 is again booked as a 2 car 150.

So, no 398’s in service and still no 756’s on the VOG line let alone a half hourly frequency. Not good is it TFW.

 

[AdamWW]

Core Valley Lines infrastructure manager | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

That's what I thought. So not in fact in private hands - just a different branch of government.

Isn't that basically what "permissive block" is?

I'm not sure that permits more than one train to be moving at the same time within a block. But in any case I think it requires somewhat lower speeds than would work if applied to long stretches of line rather than just within a station.

The Welsh government’s decision to lock in a network of 398’s so they can create short journeys and have customers changing trains like the tube, it’s not really going to work.

Apart from those inconvenienced by the rerouting of trains around the City line, is there any more need to change trains overall? Patterns have changed so some routes now require a change that didn't before, but isn't it balanced by a similar number of journeys that are now through and previously required a change.

Also for this to work there needs to be additional investment in job opportunities for local businesses. Most of the industries have closed down in the valleys.

If really is true that most of the industries have shut then I've had thought that made a frequent service into Cardiff where the jobs are much more important.

Customers currently want two tickets on the valleys, one to Cardiff for work, and another to Barry island when it’s sunny.

Bit of an exaggeration I think. For a start the University at Treforest generates a fair amount of traffic.

The uptake on the new late night service hasn’t been very good either I’ve been told.

Sign of the times since those plans were looked into. People aren't socialising as much as they used to on nights out.

Genuine question - have you spent much time in the centre of Cardiff on a Friday or Saturday night? I generally find it's heaving.

Of course if it's students then they probably won't be needing trains up into the Valleys but I don't think it gets hugely quieter out of term time.

 

[slowroad]

Well, they had business from Toronto on Saturday and the 11.04 train from Rhoose station was a full 2 car 150 & the passengers who had been up all night flying the Atlantic had to stand. What a welcome to Wales! Another arrival from Toronto comes in this morning and the 11.04 is again booked as a 2 car 150.

So, no 398’s in service and still no 756’s on the VOG line let alone a half hourly frequency. Not good is it TFW.

Re the airport - around 4-7 per cent of passengers travel by rail, and I bet it would be at or below the low end for a transatlantic flight. So perhaps 10 people. Still not great if they have to stand, of course.

 

[fgw_43025]

Re the airport - around 4-7 per cent of passengers travel by rail, and I bet it would be at or below the low end for a transatlantic flight. So perhaps 10 people. Still not great if they have to stand, of course.

Having to change trains at Cardiff or Bridgend for an hourly service on a 150 and a further change for a minibus at Rhoose not sure how they attract 4 per cent in all honesty. I believe TFW have dropped plans for half hourly on the Vale outside of an additional peak offering so little chance the Flirts will attract any more business. Oh for a light rail extension and some 398's to operate a more intensive service to the capital.

 

[John R]

It would be for any crew who wish to hold heavy rail qualifications that currently work there I suppose, especially if they do go ahead and continue to convert it long term. Quite a difference in wages and conditions compared to heavy rail. That’s if it happens!

Forgive me for saying this, but as a passenger I really don’t care. All I care about is a service that will run twice as frequently will be much more convenient.

I presume there has been a huge increase in drivers too in anticipation of the increase in service frequency. I doubt any of those can complain if one consequence of their employment is a restriction to the trains and services which they were specifically hired to operate.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2026 ==

“But I wanted to drive big trains.”
“Tough, we employed you to drive tram trains.”

 

[WelshBluebird]

It would be for any crew who wish to hold heavy rail qualifications that currently work there I suppose, especially if they do go ahead and continue to convert it long term. Quite a difference in wages and conditions compared to heavy rail. That’s if it happens!

I am sure most people would say the increase in frequency is more than worth that.

Also for this to work there needs to be additional investment in job opportunities for local businesses. Most of the industries have closed down in the valleys. Customers currently want two tickets on the valleys, one to Cardiff for work, and another to Barry island when it’s sunny.

The Welsh government’s decision to lock in a network of 398’s so they can create short journeys and have customers changing trains like the tube, it’s not really going to work. The uptake on the new late night service hasn’t been very good either I’ve been told.

They should not be removing direct links outside of the valleys in my opinion, especially when we have an airport that is crying out for business from the valleys.

Four trains per hour from the heads of the valleys, or 12 per hour north of Pontypridd clearly does provide easier journeys to Cardiff and Barry. And Treforest / Pontypridd where there is a substantial student population.

 

[Caaardiff]

Genuine question - have you spent much time in the centre of Cardiff on a Friday or Saturday night? I generally find it's heaving.

Of course if it's students then they probably won't be needing trains up into the Valleys but I don't think it gets hugely quieter out of term time.

Yes, Fridays aren't as busy as they used to be. Saturdays are still busy, especially when the weather is good things get very busy, but the late night scene mid week isn't what it used to be.

 

[AdamWW]

Yes, Fridays aren't as busy as they used to be. Saturdays are still busy, especially when the weather is good things get very busy, but the late night scene mid week isn't what it used to be.

I thought the late trains were just Fridays and Saturdays but it seems they are just Fridays. Maybe that's the wrong way round.

Though this is probably not the right place to discuss it.

 

[Chris125]

Whatever the issue 398s had they were quickly back in action, both on Saturday and today.

 

[MikePJ]

Not sure whether this is just an artefact of planning, but 398 testing/training paths in RealTimeTrains currently end on Friday 5th June, with a two-week gap, and then what appear to be planned service paths for 398s appearing from 22nd June.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Taffs Well Depot all day on 22/06/2026

Train information at Taffs Well Depot all day on 22/06/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Gordonman]

Not sure whether this is just an artefact of planning, but 398 testing/training paths in RealTimeTrains currently end on Friday 5th June, with a two-week gap, and then what appear to be planned service paths for 398s appearing from 22nd June.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Taffs Well Depot all day on 22/06/2026

Train information at Taffs Well Depot all day on 22/06/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Obviously not finalised yet.3 diagrams off in the morning and only 1 return

 

[AdamWW]

Obviously not finalised yet.3 diagrams off in the morning and only 1 return

Looks as if the other two come in after midnight so they are shown under the next day so it does balance.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Looks as if the other two come in after midnight so they are shown under the next day so it does balance.

Indeed so. Click on the +1 hour tab and you will see them

 

[AdamWW]

Indeed so. Click on the +1 hour tab and you will see them

Or just look at the 23rd where you see 3 in and 3 out in a 24 hour period.

 

[Daniel Boone]

I've only just noticed that - as of the 25th of may - RTT has begun appropriately identifying the units as "Class 398XXX" rather than a "Class 150/153/155/156 DMU". Small update.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I've only just noticed that - as of the 25th of may - RTT has begun appropriately identifying the units as "Class 398XXX" rather than a "Class 150/153/155/156 DMU". Small update.

That'll be the timing load, changing along with the rest of the timetable change.
How well will the sprinters be able to keep up with 398 timings, or has nothing changed?

 

[MikePJ]

That'll be the timing load, changing along with the rest of the timetable change.
How well will the sprinters be able to keep up with 398 timings, or has nothing changed?

I don’t think anything has changed as yet - TfW’s project plan for 2026 talks about speeding up timings from the December timetable change, provided that they’ve been able to get Sprinters off the TAM lines by then.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Seems these three diagrams will run a half hourly service, PPD-CDB-CDQ-CDB-PPD and repeat (PPD pontypridd, CDB cardiff bay, CDQ Cardiff Queen Street), the short hop back to Queen Styreet meaning a 15 minute service to the Bay. It remains to be seen whether all, some, or none of them will be operated by 398s on any particular date in Juine...............

 

[MikePJ]

Looks like testing and training runs have continued this week.
There's also a 398 test run booked for several circuits of the city centre (Radyr-Queen St-Central-City Line-Radyr and repeat) on Saturday night: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V12410/2026-05-30/detailed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2026 ==

I've only just noticed that - as of the 25th of may - RTT has begun appropriately identifying the units as "Class 398XXX" rather than a "Class 150/153/155/156 DMU". Small update.

It's showing the unit numbers on many of the test runs - so far looks like 398029, 030 and 031 are being used.

 

[trainspotter4]

Looks like testing and training runs have continued this week.
There's also a 398 test run booked for several circuits of the city centre (Radyr-Queen St-Central-City Line-Radyr and repeat) on Saturday night: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V12410/2026-05-30/detailed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2026 ==


It's showing the unit numbers on many of the test runs - so far looks like 398029, 030 and 031 are being used.

To be fair, it seems quite a few units are being used on these test runs, RTT is showing 017/024/031 today, 029/031 yesterday, 030/028 Monday so seems like they have about 6 units they're focusing on right now.

 

[VR494]

To be fair, it seems quite a few units are being used on these test runs, RTT is showing 017/024/031 today, 029/031 yesterday, 030/028 Monday so seems like they have about 6 units they're focusing on right now.

398019, 398024, 398028, 398029, 398030 and 398031 are the only functional units I believe. The rest of them are in a form of not to be moved mode.

I checked back in this week with a former colleague to see how things are progressing, and driver and guard training has began, even though they have no units ready yet.

I can’t see them coming out in June, and they are most likely not going to achieve the spring target that was set.

They’ve also had issues this week with saloon temperatures exceeding comfortable levels so runs have had to be cancelled too.

It’s on a thermostat to around 22 degrees and cannot be adjusted.

It’s forecast to rain next week, so expect cancellations, they don’t like wet weather these things I’ve been informed.

 

[800001]

398019, 398024, 398028, 398029, 398030 and 398031 are the only functional units I believe. The rest of them are in a form of not to be moved mode.

I checked back in this week with a former colleague to see how things are progressing, and driver and guard training has began, even though they have no units ready yet.

I can’t see them coming out in June, and they are most likely not going to achieve the spring target that was set.

They’ve also had issues this week with saloon temperatures exceeding comfortable levels so runs have had to be cancelled too.

It’s on a thermostat to around 22 degrees and cannot be adjusted.

It’s forecast to rain next week, so expect cancellations, they don’t like wet weather these things I’ve been informed.

What's different with the above units to all the others?

 

[Caaardiff]

398019, 398024, 398028, 398029, 398030 and 398031 are the only functional units I believe. The rest of them are in a form of not to be moved mode

So there are functional units then, it's not a complete write off of the fleet like you've been portraying. They just need to find a way of getting the other units functional through repairs and mods. Doesnt sound as bad as you continue to make out.

 

[WelshBluebird]

They’ve also had issues this week with saloon temperatures exceeding comfortable levels so runs have had to be cancelled too.

How is that any different to other rolling stock already in use? Ive been on gwr turbos and 158s this week that have had "temperatures exceeding comfortable levels"!

 

[Peter Sarf]

So there are functional units then, it's not a complete write off of the fleet like you've been portraying. They just need to find a way of getting the other units functional through repairs and mods. Doesnt sound as bad as you continue to make out.

To me its looking like the usual mountain of teething troubles that a new fleet comes with. It should not be so bad imo BUT in reality it usually is.

Time will tell if the 398s turn out to be an insurmountable disaster BUT all previous fleets this past decade have looked hopeless at first but we do not hear complaints now once they are bedded in.