Fave TOC that no longer exists

[[.n]]

1) South West Trains - based mainly on their long distance routes, particularly Weymouth
2) Anglia (also for the amusement factor their replacement - ONE - the announcements for these were hilarious!!)
3) Cross Country (a surprise no doubt to many!) but strictly only for between Poole/Bournemouth up to Winchester

 

[Strathclyder]

First ScotRail.

Yeah yeah. Most respondents to this thread will go 'why?' It's for 3 main reasons, arguably 4.

1: I have no real memories of the National Express era of ScR barring a few hazy memories - these include my only Class 303 rides - from my early days (I was 8 years old when they lost the franchise, to give you some idea of my age), so I can't really form a conclusive opinion on them one way or the other.

2: It was during their tenure that I started travelling by rail independently on a almost daily basis, mainly when I started attending college in central Glasgow in 2012, and on the whole they got me to where I needed to be in good time, so a good number of pleasent memories there for me.

3: I feel Abellio was something of a step backwards, at least in terms of reliabilty/punctuality. Granted, the Edinburgh - Glasgow Improvement Programme really kicked into high gear after they got the keys to the franchise, which didn't exactly help, but my overall view of Abellio ScotRail isn't quite as positive looking back. The shambles that was the Class 385 cab screen issue that forced the 314s to stay on much longer than initally planned didn't help either and enough has been written about the Inter7City HST saga to fill several tomes.

4: The Strathclyde/Central Belt network saw major changes and improvements during the FSR era in terms of rolling stock and infrastructure: Airdrie - Bathgate, Larkhall branch, Maryhill - Anniesland & Gartcosh all reopened, Paisley Canal, Whifflet-Coatbridge Central & Springburn - Cumbernauld all electrified, the Class 380s ordered and put into service (despite initial teething problems), Glasgow Central gaining two new platforms (granted they were for the cancelled Glasgow Airport Rail Link, but still), the Shields Junction-Paisley Gilmour St being tripled/quadrupled (also for the cancelled GARL project), to name the biggest/most noteworthy projects. E: Barrhead - Kilmarnock was also partially re-doubled in this era (2008-2010 specifically) to allow for a half-hourly service in each direction with Dunlop & Stewarton both being rebuilt with a second platform added.

ScotRail was one of the better rail franchises that First operated, all things considered.

 

[david1212]

Chiltern is a grey area as up to 2021 technically the same franchise then a direct contract but a big change from starting out as M40 Trains then DB Regio then in 2011 Arriva as DB Regio became a subsidiary.
The peak was the completion of enhancements of the core Marylebone-Birmingham route.
Once Rob Brighouse moved on so pure Arriva management the rot really set in.

I was shocked to see in the Transport Focus scorecard dated 04 February 2026 that Chiltern were one from the bottom. Seeing XC, Arriva too of course, at the bottom was no surprise.

 

[Trackman]

Virgin Trains, plus they were the pioneer for online tickets sales, in the early days they had some cracking offers to tempt people over.

 

[Magdalia]

1st place - First Capital Connect

In 30 years of commuting First Capital Connect were my favourite operator, and by a big margin.

They operated in a particularly challenging time, with rapid traffic growth on the GN side. When they took over the Cambridge line had 6 of the top 10 most overcrowded trains on the network. This also included managing the increase of Arsenal crowds to >60k when the Ashburton Grove stadium opened in 2006. I think that traffic was growing fast on the Midland Main Line too.

they were dumped with handling the majority of the Thameslink Upgrade disruption.

Which was a huge task that they did very well. That included the breaking of Thameslink to build the new station at St Pancras, the closure of Moorgate and Blackfriars to terminating trains, the early stages of the Canal Tunnel construction, and the diversion of trains via Tulse Hill while London Bridge was being rebuilt.

Fleet management on the GN side was exemplary. Hornsey consistently turned out 38 of 40 class 365s every weekday peak. The senior management fought tooth and nail with Whitehall to get the class 321s to relieve the overcrowding, with Hornsey absorbing the increased workload.

The icing on the cake was the senior management, led by Elaine Holt. They engaged, listened and acted. That included being on the front line at Kings Cross during times of disruption, taking the flak from commuters so that the front line staff could get on with the job.

They had one decent livery (the bars one) but that was about it

For a commuter, livery is trivial, but one thing about FCC and train presentation stood out. Every train with graffiti was one journey to Hornsey and cleaned. On the class 313s that happened a lot!

 

[SuspectUsual]

GNER, because:

1 - the branding and livery were almost perfect

2 - their customer service always seemed to be very good when things went wrong (in my experience at least)

3 - they still did proper first class catering with actual cooking, leading to.....

4 - one of my friends was quite senior in GNER and if I was working in London he'd make sure he was on my train back up to Leeds and we'd have a free dinner on the way

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Network SouthEast
South West Trains
Anglia Railways

Travelled on all 3 regularly back in the day. Liked everything from the branding to the operations. Of course, some of the rolling stock might have had something to do with it

 

[sprunt]

As somebody who grew up in Sussex in the 2000's, may I ask what you liked about FCC?

As someone who used to commute on the Northern City Line in the 2010s I'm assuming it was the opportunity to roll in late for work and very plausibly blame the trains.

 

[bramling]

In 30 years of commuting First Capital Connect were my favourite operator, and by a big margin.

They operated in a particularly challenging time, with rapid traffic growth on the GN side. When they took over the Cambridge line had 6 of the top 10 most overcrowded trains on the network. This also included managing the increase of Arsenal crowds to >60k when the Ashburton Grove stadium opened in 2006. I think that traffic was growing fast on the Midland Main Line too.


Which was a huge task that they did very well. That included the breaking of Thameslink to build the new station at St Pancras, the closure of Moorgate and Blackfriars to terminating trains, the early stages of the Canal Tunnel construction, and the diversion of trains via Tulse Hill while London Bridge was being rebuilt.

Fleet management on the GN side was exemplary. Hornsey consistently turned out 38 of 40 class 365s every weekday peak. The senior management fought tooth and nail with Whitehall to get the class 321s to relieve the overcrowding, with Hornsey absorbing the increased workload.

The icing on the cake was the senior management, led by Elaine Holt. They engaged, listened and acted. That included being on the front line at Kings Cross during times of disruption, taking the flak from commuters so that the front line staff could get on with the job.


For a commuter, livery is trivial, but one thing about FCC and train presentation stood out. Every train with graffiti was one journey to Hornsey and cleaned. On the class 313s that happened a lot!

I’d agree with all of this, but with one caveat. FCC took over the GN in a relatively good shape, as left to them by the National Express WAGN franchise. NX did a lot of work to get things in a decent shape after being left a mess by Prism. NX had already left the operation in a state where you could set your watch by performance, which on the GN route is no mean feat.

FCC then did a great job building on this, concentrating on getting the small things right - as you say, great fleet management, the “seats for you” timetable, and managing all the TL programme disruption. They also felt like a responsive TOC that had a grip on what was going on.

A lot of this has been trashed since, sadly.

 

[contrex]

Wessex. We were small but done things well.

My choice too. Being a Southern Region kiddie transplanted to GWR land, I used to use their service to get from Bristol TM to Waterloo. Felt I'd come home to the SR when we got to Basingstoke and I could see a proper juice rail again.

 

[mmh]

As a couple of people have put in unlikely ones, here's one where I miss a couple of things they did...

Connex South Central. I liked the Gatwick to Rugby service, and the Connex Express / Brighton Express refurbishment of 319s - especially the "lounge" / "snug" area.

 

[sh24]

South West Trains. Everything worked, reliability was impressive and with my crank hat on, the most coherent visual identity on British rails since NSE and InterCity in the 80's.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I agree. It's never been the same on the WCML since Avanti took over.

Arguably the change was after the franchise fiasco in 2012.
DfT never let VT off the leash afterwards, with multiple 2-year "no change" extensions until the 2019 rebid which thy lost.
Best time was between 2008 (VHF) and 2012 when the 11-cars came in, plus the combination of Birmingham-Scotland services with Euston-Birmingham.

Branson also lost interest after 2012 and the operation became dominated by Stagecoach (Virgin only had a 10% shareholding in the rebid).
Even now we seem to be in an "anyone but Virgin/Avanti" mode in government, as GBR is being setup.
Not to mention the recent Chris Gibb affair.

It's also ironic that Virgin's "red trains" branding is now essentially running on the ECML with the rival TOC, while Avanti have turned the Pendolinos turquise.

 

[bramling]

As a couple of people have put in unlikely ones, here's one where I miss a couple of things they did...

Connex South Central. I liked the Gatwick to Rugby service, and the Connex Express / Brighton Express refurbishment of 319s - especially the "lounge" / "snug" area.

I’d also give a nod to Connex South Eastern. Not a great TOC, but the Electrostar interior was well specified, and that legacy lives on today. I’ve seen people get on class 375s and comment how luxurious they appear.

 

[Sealink]

South West Trains
My company operated season ticket loan and I realised that if I bought my Zone 1-3 Travelcard at Clapham Junction, it was an SWT Gold Card.

That got me cheap First Class upgrades across the Network SouthEast area, and six free passes a year on South West Trains.
That's when I discovered the West of England Line, Island Line and the Wessex Mainline for free*. *apart from paying for the IOW Ferry from Lymington, which became my favourite way to get to the Isle of Wight.
I never had any major issues with them, the 158s/159s were immaculate and I loved loitering at Salisbury station.
There were just other little things they did, like on a blisteringly hot summers day they had people selling Purbeck Icecreams on the train. And you could get a cuppa and a sandwich.

I don't like South Western Railway much, decisions like removing the trolley service, making First Class to Weymouth 2+2 seating on services with a 3hr+ duration, a lack of suitcase space on services and the sheer number of delays I have experienced with them means I don't look forward to my journeys.

Virgin Trains
I wanted to love them, but that whiff you used to get on the Pendolinos...

First Capital Connect
Another one I didn't like, although better than the original Thamelink. The FCC livery always made me rub my eyes.

First Great Western
I actually liked FGW. It was great getting to sit in First Class from Paddington to Worcester using my Gold Card. Always fun explaining at Paddington what a Gold Card First Class upgrade was
Had a few great journeys to/from Cornwall too.

GNER
Every journey brilliant. And having a meal in a restaurant car with cutlery and crockery. Even if was the cheapest thing on the menu - bangers and mash. Was just lovely.

 

[D1537]

I'm prepared to give Virgin West Coast the benefit of the doubt (and it's especially noticeable now Avanti are running it), but Virgin Cross Country's Operation Princess was a shambles from day one that is still ensuring uncomfortable and unreliable services for cross country passengers to this day, whilst VTEC, whilst best not talked about, was of course largely Stagecoach anyway.

My choice - GNER, just excellent. And I'm not a critic of LNER, but it's not as good...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

3) Cross Country (a surprise no doubt to many!) but strictly only for between Poole/Bournemouth up to Winchester

When would that have been? (And is the TOC no longer existing)?

 

[snookertam]

First ScotRail.

Yeah yeah. Most respondents to this thread will go 'why?' It's for 3 main reasons, arguably 4.

1: I have no real memories of the National Express era of ScR barring a few hazy memories - these include my only Class 303 rides - from my early days (I was 8 years old when they lost the franchise, to give you some idea of my age), so I can't really form a conclusive opinion on them one way or the other.

2: It was during their tenure that I started travelling by rail independently on a almost daily basis, mainly when I started attending college in central Glasgow in 2012, and on the whole they got me to where I needed to be in good time, so a good number of pleasent memories there for me.

3: I feel Abellio was something of a step backwards, at least in terms of reliabilty/punctuality. Granted, the Edinburgh - Glasgow Improvement Programme really kicked into high gear after they got the keys to the franchise, which didn't exactly help, but my overall view of Abellio ScotRail isn't quite as positive looking back. The shambles that was the Class 385 cab screen issue that forced the 314s to stay on much longer than initally planned didn't help either and enough has been written about the Inter7City HST saga to fill several tomes.

4: The Strathclyde/Central Belt network saw major changes and improvements during the FSR era in terms of rolling stock and infrastructure: Airdrie - Bathgate, Larkhall branch, Maryhill - Anniesland & Gartcosh all reopened, Paisley Canal, Whifflet-Coatbridge Central & Springburn - Cumbernauld all electrified, the Class 380s ordered and put into service (despite initial teething problems), Glasgow Central gaining two new platforms (granted they were for the cancelled Glasgow Airport Rail Link, but still), the Shields Junction-Paisley Gilmour St being tripled/quadrupled (also for the cancelled GARL project), to name the biggest/most noteworthy projects. E: Barrhead - Kilmarnock was also partially re-doubled in this era (2008-2010 specifically) to allow for a half-hourly service in each direction with Dunlop & Stewarton both being rebuilt with a second platform added.

ScotRail was one of the better rail franchises that First operated, all things considered.

First themselves weren’t anything special, but were miles ahead of Abellio who surely have to take the prize for worst ever management of a TOC with their record at ScotRail. Not helped as usual by good old Transport Scotland of course, whose involvement in the railway should be removed.

 

[Strathclyder]

First themselves weren’t anything special, but were miles ahead of Abellio who surely have to take the prize for worst ever management of a TOC with their record at ScotRail. Not helped as usual by good old Transport Scotland of course, whose involvement in the railway should be removed.

Yeah, that's what I was basically getting at. They were by-and-large competent when managing ScotRail, but nothing to shout from the rooftops about. Which makes FScR something of a outlier as far as First TOCs are concerned I think.

 

[Sealink]

It was National Express who ended train splitting (on what was my local line) at Georgemas Junction, making journeys to/from Wick even longer.

 

[KevinTurvey]

I have mixed feelings about Virgin. In the early years to about 2003 there were some very substantial fare increases, plus reliability (Hatfield and WCRM aside) in the early 2000's took a nosedive.

Then introduction of 8 car Pendolinos and 4 car Voyagers caused massive overcrowding issues, although things got gradually better as service frequency increased and Pendolinos were quickly lengthened to 9 and later 11 coaches, and from about 2006/7 they became a competent operator. I suppose this also went hand in hand with the changeover from 321s to 350s and that MK/Rugby/Nuneaton commuters were soaked up by these instead of the longer distance services.

On the plus side when First North Western and Northern Spirit/Arriva Northern became the original incarnation of Northern, they seemed to do a solid job for about a decade from the previous industrial relations problems of FNW and poorish performance at ATN. This is just my observation, others may disagree of course.....

 

[satisnek]

As a lifelong (almost!) anti-privatisationist it's difficult for me to sing the praises of any TOC. But my vote goes to Central Trains. Yes, they did have a reputation of being a bit ropey in the early years but towards the end of the franchise they really had it nailed (Thames Trains - which extended out to Worcester/Malvern/Hereford - were the other way round). I can remember the introduction of the Class 170 - the CT variants with those comfy seats with that cosy purple/violet fabric, all lining up with the windows, a good mix of tables and face-to-back, and the luggage racks breaking up the appearance of a 'long tube full of seats'. I thought that they were awesome trains, especially after the Sprinter classes. CT also joined up the East and West Midlands (following on from Regional Railways Central) in a way that the current franchise map can't possibly do.

An honorable mention must also go to London Midland, mainly for their Great Escape tickets which were brilliant until the footy boys cottoned on and bought entire Saturday allocations.

Connex South Central.

Seconded. My memories of the Coastway East line during that period were of clean, well-maintained trains (mainly CIG stock, which went downhill after Southern took over), friendly staff and the whole lot running like clockwork. I can remember thinking that the London suburban services must be the absolute pits to give them the reputation that they had.

 

[trainswitheddy]

No love for East Coast?
Purely nostalgia reasons, fight me!

 

[Mogz]

GNER- they really set the standard with a dining car on nearly every train.

 

[Mogz]

I shouldn't really count it as it isn't one I'm old enough to remember, but, from reputation, pre-Arriva Chiltern.

Definitely. It had the real feel of a friendly local railway. For instance, if you forgot to pay for your parking, the first time they would just put a note on your windscreen inviting you to come to the ticket office to pay up,
rather than slapping you with a fine.

The trains had a trolley in the morning that just served tea and coffee from urns (and bacon rolls!)

The long serving staff are still very friendly and attentive to this day, it must be said.

 

[Recessio]

My vote would also be for SWT. Fantastic refurbishment of the 455s that was much better for Metro services than the original layout, and made them feel a lot newer than they actually were. Plus not only a distinctive livery, but actually very useful one with the three different colours to easily distinguish metro, regional and express trains.

I’d also give a nod to Connex South Eastern. Not a great TOC, but the Electrostar interior was well specified, and that legacy lives on today. I’ve seen people get on class 375s and comment how luxurious they appear.

They did order the 376s without air conditioning though - if it was 1990 I'd maybe understand it, but for entering service in 2004 is pretty unforgiveable imo.

In 30 years of commuting First Capital Connect were my favourite operator, and by a big margin.

They operated in a particularly challenging time, with rapid traffic growth on the GN side. When they took over the Cambridge line had 6 of the top 10 most overcrowded trains on the network. This also included managing the increase of Arsenal crowds to >60k when the Ashburton Grove stadium opened in 2006. I think that traffic was growing fast on the Midland Main Line too.


Which was a huge task that they did very well. That included the breaking of Thameslink to build the new station at St Pancras, the closure of Moorgate and Blackfriars to terminating trains, the early stages of the Canal Tunnel construction, and the diversion of trains via Tulse Hill while London Bridge was being rebuilt.

Fleet management on the GN side was exemplary. Hornsey consistently turned out 38 of 40 class 365s every weekday peak. The senior management fought tooth and nail with Whitehall to get the class 321s to relieve the overcrowding, with Hornsey absorbing the increased workload.

The icing on the cake was the senior management, led by Elaine Holt. They engaged, listened and acted. That included being on the front line at Kings Cross during times of disruption, taking the flak from commuters so that the front line staff could get on with the job.


For a commuter, livery is trivial, but one thing about FCC and train presentation stood out. Every train with graffiti was one journey to Hornsey and cleaned. On the class 313s that happened a lot!

Interesting to hear your experiences. I was quite young but used to travel every weekend (Friday PM peak, Sunday PM) from Sussex up to the MML side of things and back, and found FCC to be absolutely dreadful! I don't doubt they had a difficult hand to play what with the Thameslink Upgrade works, but it's a period of life I absolutely do not care to repeat.

 

[Russel]

For me, Great Western and Wales & West, they were nothing special, but remind me of childhood family holidays in the late 90s to Dawlish, the HSTs looked fantastic in the original Great Western livery too!

This has just brought back memories of boarding a Virgin class 47 and Mk2 set in a mix of Intercity and Virgin liveries at Dawlish Warren... How things change.

 

[Dave61]

1. GNER - partly it’s a reflection on what came afterwards, but classy livery, great first class / restaurant service, a little buccaneering (White Rose Eurostars). Felt like a proper railway

2. Midland Mainline - stepped up service both in terms of frequency/seats, but also on board (remember free tea/coffee?)

3. Anglia - a mix of the above, they had clapped out rolling stock, but a nice livery, very solid (if old-fashioned) on board service, and they tried to innovate with the Basingstoke service, and of course Hull Trains.

And with Midland Mainline if you purchased a breakfast on a standard ticket you got to sit in first class seating. Used to commute Long Eaton to Loughborough in the 1990's and always had a free coffee coming back home

 

[Merle Haggard]

And with Midland Mainline if you purchased a breakfast on a standard ticket you got to sit in first class seating. Used to commute Long Eaton to Loughborough in the 1990's and always had a free coffee coming back home

But not if you were travelling from South of Leicester - just 2 car Turbos. Being able to squeeze on was a bonus.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Connex South Central. I liked the Gatwick to Rugby service, and the Connex Express / Brighton Express refurbishment of 319s - especially the "lounge" / "snug" area.

And the journey between Victoria and Brighton was much faster then than what is achieved nowadays. I used it quite regularly