Penalty fare: website crashes after attempt to pay (19yo)

[trainuser16]

Hello,

Yesterday I paid for a train ticket at 1:35 and it quickly said "processing". The train then arrived early (1:40 instead of 1:49) so I boarded in belief that the payment had worked (I had money in my account and never had an issue before). Upon boarding, the website must have been frozen for over 5 minutes as when I checked it on the train it still said processing. I looked for a ticket inspector but couldn't see any. After a few minutes of trying to refresh the page and see if I can redo the whole process, a pair of revenue protection officers approached me and asked for my ticket. I explained to them that I had attempted to pay before boarding, asked to show them my phone (they declined) and asked if I could buy a ticket off of them, but they issued me a Penalty Fare of £50 (within 21 days).

I have submitted an appeal as if it were not for the technical error of their website, my payment and ticket would have loaded.

I am very anxious as I cannot afford this and keep seeing people saying it's practically impossible for an appeal to be successful because I technically had no valid ticket, despite my intentions and attempts.


Extra context: (against and in my favour)

- we had passed 2 stops and the next was my destination
- I had only been on the train for about 5-8 minutes
- I have screenshot time stamped evidence of the payment saying it was going through at 1:35 and 1:40, as well as maps saying the train departed 1:49 (not true as the fare was given at 1:48 on the train so it was early)
- I have autism and ADHD so I don't typically use physical tickets or use the ticket office as I get anxious in social situations and easily lose or damage physical things like card or paper
- the appeal includes the sequence of events I have included as well as the screenshots, but when I submitted the appeal yesterday I met the character limit and didn't find the relevance to mention ADHD/autism.



Thank you for reading, please let me know if there's any more information I could give and any ideas as to how likely my appeal will be successful.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Can you tell us more details of your journey, and also show us the paperwork you were given and the contents of your appeal? Cover up any personal details though

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello,

Yesterday I paid for a train ticket at 1:35 and it quickly said "processing". The train then arrived early (1:40 instead of 1:49) so I boarded in belief that the payment had worked (I had money in my account and never had an issue before). Upon boarding, the website must have been frozen for over 5 minutes as when I checked it on the train it still said processing. I looked for a ticket inspector but couldn't see any. After a few minutes of trying to refresh the page and see if I can redo the whole process, a pair of revenue protection officers approached me and asked for my ticket. I explained to them that I had attempted to pay before boarding, asked to show them my phone (they declined) and asked if I could buy a ticket off of them, but they issued me a Penalty Fare of £50 (within 21 days).

I have submitted an appeal as if it were not for the technical error of their website, my payment and ticket would have loaded.

I am very anxious as I cannot afford this and keep seeing people saying it's practically impossible for an appeal to be successful because I technically had no valid ticket, despite my intentions and attempts.


Extra context: (against and in my favour)

- we had passed 2 stops and the next was my destination
- I had only been on the train for about 5-8 minutes
- I have screenshot time stamped evidence of the payment saying it was going through at 1:35 and 1:40, as well as maps saying the train departed 1:49 (not true as the fare was given at 1:48 on the train so it was early)
- I have autism and ADHD so I don't typically use physical tickets or use the ticket office as I get anxious in social situations and easily lose or damage physical things like card or paper
- the appeal includes the sequence of events I have included as well as the screenshots, but when I submitted the appeal yesterday I met the character limit and didn't find the relevance to mention ADHD/autism.



Thank you for reading, please let me know if there's any more information I could give and any ideas as to how likely my appeal will be successful.

Please answer the following:

- Where did you travel from and to?
- Was your train actually *early* or did you simply catch an earlier one than you planned?
- Does your autism and ADHD amount to a disability in your own opinion?
- What ticket did you attempt to buy, and how much did it cost?
- Which website or app did you use?
- What, if anything, made you think the ticket purchase had been successful before you boarded?
- Did the transaction ever go through?

 

[saismee]

The timeline doesn't seem to make sense to me. I am assuming the times stated were in PM.

The 1349 train arrived at 1340 and you boarded it.
You had passed two stops before being issued the PFN.
The PFN was issued at 1348, before departure time.

Could you give a clearer timeline, ideally using station names (this will be relevant to your appeal). As others have said, upload the receipt you were given, but redact personal information. I doubt an appeal under mitigating circumstances would succeed, but if there's a mistake on the penalty then it may be easier to appeal it.

 

[trainuser16]

Please answer the following:

- Where did you travel from and to?
- Was your train actually *early* or did you simply catch an earlier one than you planned?
- Does your autism and ADHD amount to a disability in your own opinion?
- What ticket did you attempt to buy, and how much did it cost?
- Which website or app did you use?
- What, if anything, made you think the ticket purchase had been successful before you boarded?
- Did the transaction ever go through?

Thank you for your reply

- from Longfield to Rochester
- Google maps said 1:49pm and it arrived about 1:40pm, and to my knowledge there is only 1 train every hour
- yes they're both disabilities and I find myself disabled and I receive help for it in ways such as the Disabled Students Allowance (for example, they got me hardware and software for making all of my studying and notes digital because I really struggle with paper, as well as other support for social struggles
- I attempted to buy a return ticket which costed £5.75 with my 16-25 Railcard
- I used the national rail website which redirected me to the southeastern railway website when I was purchasing
- I believed the purchase had gone through because I had pressed the button to make the payment, it gave me a check mark I believe, and it showed me a screen that it was processing
- unfortunately the transaction never went through so I had to purchase a single ticket back (which is £5.70 so 5p cheaper than the original return ticket I thought I had purchased). When I tried purchasing the single ticket back to Longfield, on the website again but well in advance of departure, it didn't work (wouldn't even load to the payment screen) so I had to use the machine at the station which I struggled with

 

[steamybrian]

Looking on the South Eastern timetable there is a 1339 (1.39) train from Longfield to Rochester but no 1349.
There are two trains per hour.

 

[trainuser16]

The timeline doesn't seem to make sense to me. I am assuming the times stated were in PM.

The 1349 train arrived at 1340 and you boarded it.
You had passed two stops before being issued the PFN.
The PFN was issued at 1348, before departure time.

Could you give a clearer timeline, ideally using station names (this will be relevant to your appeal). As others have said, upload the receipt you were given, but redact personal information. I doubt an appeal under mitigating circumstances would succeed, but if there's a mistake on the penalty then it may be easier to appeal it.

Thank you for your response.

Google maps said train would arrive 1:49pm

Train arrived at longfield 1:40pm
Train had arrived at meopham at 1:43-1:48pm (unsure of exact minutes)
Revenue officers approached about 1:45-1:47pm
PFN issued 1:48pm
Train arrived at Rochester at 1:50-1:53pm

On Google maps it shows that the trains to Rochester typically are:

1:25pm
1:39pm (the one I took which Google maps said was arriving at 1:49pm)
2:25pm
2:39pm


I have attached the receipt with my name blocked out.

Could you please clarify what you mean by "I doubt an appeal under mitigating circumstances would succeed"

Do you think it was incorrect for them to have put "where: Rochester" as we didn't arrive at Rochester for another few minutes?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Looking on the South Eastern timetable there is a 1339 (1.39) train from Longfield to Rochester but no 1349.
There are two trains per hour.

There appear to have been the two trains in quick succession, outbound from London Victoria, calling at Longfield on Tuesday, and both were late running.

• The 13:25 (for Gillingham) which departed Longfield at 13:34 and arrived Rochester at or around 13:49.

• The 13:39 (for Dover Priory) which departed Longfield at 13:45 and didn't arrive Rochester until 14:00.

Perhaps some confusion between the two?

 

[trainuser16]

Looking on the South Eastern timetable there is a 1339 (1.39) train from Longfield to Rochester but no 1349.
There are two trains per hour.

Apologies, it is the 13:39 train but Google maps said it was 13:49. I have attached the screenshot of it saying that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2026 ==

Can you tell us more details of your journey, and also show us the paperwork you were given and the contents of your appeal? Cover up any personal details though

Thank you, I have posted some replies containing more specific information, including the receipt I was given

 

[AlterEgo]

- yes they're both disabilities and I find myself disabled and I receive help for it in ways such as the Disabled Students Allowance (for example, they got me hardware and software for making all of my studying and notes digital because I really struggle with paper, as well as other support for social struggles

Best to gather some evidence of this. You may need it for a second appeal, which we can help with if it is necessary. Include a copy of any award letter and any GP letters you have which reference your disability.

You may be able to claim this part of their Accessible Travel Policy applies to you:

If you have not been able to purchase a ticket before travelling because of your disability, you will not be subject to a penalty fare. You will be able to purchase tickets, including any appropriate discount either on board the train or at your destination.

- but you would need to show that you hadn't purchased a ticket *because of your disability*.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/-/media/goahead/southeastern/documents/accessibility-and-atp/accessible-travel-policy-2026/accessible-travel-policy-2026-pdf.pdf

Apologies, it is the 13:39 train but Google maps said it was 13:49. I have attached the screenshot of it saying that.

It's wrong. This was your train, and it left at 1346. You couldn't have got on it until 1344. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P86286/2026-05-26#allox_id=0

Good news as well: the penalty fare is unlawful anyway. They have charged you the Anytime Single £8.70 when you travelled at a time when the Off peak Day Single of £8.60 should apply. This alone will be enough to cancel the penalty fare.

Come back when your appeal is rejected and we can help further; you will need to reference the Penalty Fares Regulations which we can assist with.

 

[gray1404]

Best to gather some evidence of this. You may need it for a second appeal, which we can help with if it is necessary. Include a copy of any award letter and any GP letters you have which reference your disability.

You may be able to claim this part of their Accessible Travel Policy applies to you:

If you have not been able to purchase a ticket before travelling because of your disability, you will not be subject to a penalty fare. You will be able to purchase tickets, including any appropriate discount either on board the train or at your destination.

- but you would need to show that you hadn't purchased a ticket *because of your disability*.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/-/media/goahead/southeastern/documents/accessibility-and-atp/accessible-travel-policy-2026/accessible-travel-policy-2026-pdf.pdf

It's wrong. This was your train, and it left at 1346. You couldn't have got on it until 1344. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P86286/2026-05-26#allox_id=0

Good news as well: the penalty fare is unlawful anyway. They have charged you the Anytime Single £8.70 when you travelled at a time when the Off peak Day Single of £8.60 should apply. This alone will be enough to cancel the penalty fare.

Come back when your appeal is rejected and we can help further; you will need to reference the Penalty Fares Regulations which we can assist with.

Agreed with this. It is normal for a first or second appeal to be rejected and it is often only at the third attempt are people's successful so do not give up.

For future reference it is important to only consider an online transaction complete once you have got the PDF of your e-ticket open on your phone.

 

[furlong]

Good news as well: the penalty fare is unlawful anyway. They have charged you the Anytime Single £8.70 when you travelled at a time when the Off peak Day Single of £8.60 should apply. This alone will be enough to cancel the penalty fare.

Indeed. They have overcharged you when issuing the penalty and consequently it is unenforceable. You should appeal on the grounds that it was not issued in accordance with the regulations. If correct, they are required to uphold such appeals and cancel the penalty.

 

[trainuser16]

Best to gather some evidence of this. You may need it for a second appeal, which we can help with if it is necessary. Include a copy of any award letter and any GP letters you have which reference your disability.

You may be able to claim this part of their Accessible Travel Policy applies to you:

If you have not been able to purchase a ticket before travelling because of your disability, you will not be subject to a penalty fare. You will be able to purchase tickets, including any appropriate discount either on board the train or at your destination.

- but you would need to show that you hadn't purchased a ticket *because of your disability*.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/-/media/goahead/southeastern/documents/accessibility-and-atp/accessible-travel-policy-2026/accessible-travel-policy-2026-pdf.pdf

It's wrong. This was your train, and it left at 1346. You couldn't have got on it until 1344. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P86286/2026-05-26#allox_id=0

Good news as well: the penalty fare is unlawful anyway. They have charged you the Anytime Single £8.70 when you travelled at a time when the Off peak Day Single of £8.60 should apply. This alone will be enough to cancel the penalty fare.

Come back when your appeal is rejected and we can help further; you will need to reference the Penalty Fares Regulations which we can assist with.

Best to gather some evidence of this. You may need it for a second appeal, which we can help with if it is necessary. Include a copy of any award letter and any GP letters you have which reference your disability.

You may be able to claim this part of their Accessible Travel Policy applies to you:

If you have not been able to purchase a ticket before travelling because of your disability, you will not be subject to a penalty fare. You will be able to purchase tickets, including any appropriate discount either on board the train or at your destination.

- but you would need to show that you hadn't purchased a ticket *because of your disability*.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/-/media/goahead/southeastern/documents/accessibility-and-atp/accessible-travel-policy-2026/accessible-travel-policy-2026-pdf.pdf

It's wrong. This was your train, and it left at 1346. You couldn't have got on it until 1344. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P86286/2026-05-26#allox_id=0

Good news as well: the penalty fare is unlawful anyway. They have charged you the Anytime Single £8.70 when you travelled at a time when the Off peak Day Single of £8.60 should apply. This alone will be enough to cancel the penalty fare.

Come back when your appeal is rejected and we can help further; you will need to reference the Penalty Fares Regulations which we can assist with.

I have evidence of diagnoses and DSA but I think I will have to look through my documents to see if there's anything I can use for this, if I can't find anything I can try to request something because my documents are centered about my disabilities and education.

How difficult would it be to make my disabilities the reason why the ticket wasn't purchased? They're the reason why I never buy physical tickets or buy them from people unless necessary, which is rarely the case as my phone has always solved these issues for me. But I had made an attempt to buy a ticket online and from the officer, so would this make my new reasoning invalid?

I'm a little confused about the timing of the train as I know I took a screenshot of my payment screen before and after I got on the train, and different sources say the train arrived/departed at different times.


Thank you so much, I wouldn't have noticed that the ticket price was wrong because I had a Railcard for a year.

Thank you so much for helping me, everyone here is amazing and helpful.

I will write when the appeal gets rejected and ask for some more help with the second attempt.

I hope you, and everyone who has helped, have the most wonderful good fortune bestowed upon you and that your good deeds return tenfold.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have evidence of diagnoses and DSA but I think I will have to look through my documents to see if there's anything I can use for this, if I can't find anything I can try to request something because my documents are centered about my disabilities and education.

How difficult would it be to make my disabilities the reason why the ticket wasn't purchased? They're the reason why I never buy physical tickets or buy them from people unless necessary, which is rarely the case as my phone has always solved these issues for me. But I had made an attempt to buy a ticket online and from the officer, so would this make my new reasoning invalid?

I'm a little confused about the timing of the train as I know I took a screenshot of my payment screen before and after I got on the train, and different sources say the train arrived/departed at different times.


Thank you so much, I wouldn't have noticed that the ticket price was wrong because I had a Railcard for a year.

Thank you so much for helping me, everyone here is amazing and helpful.

I will write when the appeal gets rejected and ask for some more help with the second attempt.

I hope you, and everyone who has helped, have the most wonderful good fortune bestowed upon you and that your good deeds return tenfold.

I would strongly suggest you post your draft appeal wording here for people to check that it as good as it can be before you submit it - I'm sure the Penalty Fare experts here will check it for you.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I have evidence of diagnoses and DSA but I think I will have to look through my documents to see if there's anything I can use for this, if I can't find anything I can try to request something because my documents are centered about my disabilities and education.

A couple of evidenced doc spring to mind:
Do you have an EHCP (Educational Health and Care Plan) formal Statement from your local Borough?
Do you receive PIP (Personal Independence Payments)?

Our 24 years-old son has formal diagnoses for his autism, his dyspraxia and cognitive learning disabilities (his development arrested at that of 5-6 years old).

 

[AlterEgo]

A couple of evidenced doc spring to mind:
Do you have an EHCP (Educational Health and Care Plan) formal Statement from your local Borough?
Do you receive PIP (Personal Independence Payments)?

Our 24 years-old son has formal diagnoses for his autism, his dyspraxia and cognitive learning disabilities (his development arrested at that of 5-6 years old).

Also if the OP uses a Disabled Railcard that would be very useful to show.

 

[trainuser16]

Indeed. They have overcharged you when issuing the penalty and consequently it is unenforceable. You should appeal on the grounds that it was not issued in accordance with the regulations. If correct, they are required to uphold such appeals and cancel the penalty.

Thank you!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Also if the OP uses a Disabled Railcard that would be very useful to show.

Good point @AlterEgo

 

[reb0118]

Google maps certainly has its place, but I would strongly advise you to check any information given with official sources before relying on it.

 

[trainuser16]

A couple of evidenced doc spring to mind:
Do you have an EHCP (Educational Health and Care Plan) formal Statement from your local Borough?
Do you receive PIP (Personal Independence Payments)?

Our 24 years-old son has formal diagnoses for his autism, his dyspraxia and cognitive learning disabilities (his development arrested at that of 5-6 years old).

Thank you,

I don't believe I do as I was only formally diagnosed recently (long waiting lists and unsupportive family), but my school has the diagnoses documents (I'm in yr13), my DSA is already in action (application successful and my equipment will be approved and ready to order in a few weeks) and my first choice university has put me on their personal disability support plan after an appointment with their disability team.

I don't receive PIP at the moment. Ironically, I have been procrastinating applying for months.

 

[trainuser16]

Also if the OP uses a Disabled Railcard that would be very useful to show.

I used a 1 year 16-25 Railcard. I just checked and I'm currently not eligible for the disabled Railcard as I haven't applied for PIP and just having a diagnosis doesn't seem to meet their eligibility criteria

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2026 ==

Google maps certainly has its place, but I would strongly advise you to check any information given with official sources before relying on it.

Thank you, I think I've learned my lesson. Would you recommend any alternative app/website for planning travel or just to double check everything at the station?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2026 ==

A couple of evidenced doc spring to mind:
Do you have an EHCP (Educational Health and Care Plan) formal Statement from your local Borough?
Do you receive PIP (Personal Independence Payments)?

Our 24 years-old son has formal diagnoses for his autism, his dyspraxia and cognitive learning disabilities (his development arrested at that of 5-6 years old).

Thank you, I have posted a reply to this but it's flagging as "awaiting moderator approval". In summary it's:

EHCP: I don't think so?
PIP: not yet

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2026 ==

Agreed with this. It is normal for a first or second appeal to be rejected and it is often only at the third attempt are people's successful so do not give up.

For future reference it is important to only consider an online transaction complete once you have got the PDF of your e-ticket open on your phone.

Thank you, I will make sure this is the case every time I travel now

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2026 ==

I would strongly suggest you post your draft appeal wording here for people to check that it as good as it can be before you submit it - I'm sure the Penalty Fare experts here will check it for you.

Thank you, I will draft one up when I can but it may be in a couple of days as I have my final exams

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, I will draft one up when I can but it may be in a couple of days as I have my final exams

Yes, if you have time before the Appeal submission deadline (double check your date for that) certainly wait till you have got your exams out of the way before drafting it up.

Good luck with those exams by the way!

 

[trainuser16]

Yes, if you have time before the Appeal submission deadline (double check your date for that) certainly wait till you have got your exams out of the way before drafting it up.

Good luck with those exams by the way!

I submitted my 1st appeal on the day I was given the fine, so I believe the 26/05, so the 21 days to pay the fare should be paused. The original deadline was 15/06. If this gets rejected I will be onto my second appeal using everyone's help here, probably should have asked for help before submitting my first appeal so hastily.

Thank you!! When I calculate the acceleration of trains in my exams I will think of everyone here (/hj)

 

[reb0118]

Thank you, I think I've learned my lesson. Would you recommend any alternative app/website for planning travel or just to double check everything at the station?

I actually use quite a few, including Google Maps, depending on the circumstances.

These include, but are not limited to, the following:-

Realtime Trains
Traksy
National Rail Enquiries
Traveline
A generic TOC app or website (in my case ScotRail)

I do not use all of them every time, but when enough of them confirm the same information, Im generally satisfied.

 

[ikcdab]

If you have not been able to purchase a ticket before travelling because of your disability, you will not be subject to a penalty fare. You will be able to purchase tickets, including any appropriate discount either on board the train or at your destination.

- but you would need to show that you hadn't purchased a ticket *because of your disability*.

I don't understand all the posts about disability. You said right up front that you couldn't show a ticket because the website froze. So itc would be wrong to now suggest that the lack of ticket was somehow due to being disabled.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2026 ==

used a 1 year 16-25 Railcard. I just checked and I'm currently not eligible for the disabled Railcard as I haven't applied for PIP and just having a diagnosis doesn't seem to meet their eligibility criteria

Benefits for disabled people are given for two reasons. It's either to reduce your cost of living because being disabled can incur additional costs, or it's to make life easier, such as priority parking. Many people can have a diagnosed illness but not need this additional help. PIP is awarded on how your conditions affect you on a day to day basis .. Can you get up and dressed on your own, can you use the bathroom on your own, can you feed yourself can you travel around on your own? Many people can have ADHD etc but be perfectly capable of travelling independently on a train. This is why a disabled Railcard needs much more than a diagnosis and needs something like a pip award to prove you need the extra help.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I don't understand all the posts about disability.

The OP's initial post states: "I have autism and ADHD so I don't typically use physical tickets or use the ticket office as I get anxious in social situations and easily lose or damage physical things like card or paper" -

- So, those follow-on questions were to help establish if OPs condition:
a) is a significant-enough contributary factor in their not fully conpleting their e-ticket purchase (no e-ticket PDF received);
b) is medically-evidencable: typically with evidence of EHCP, PIP or Disabled Person's Railcard. A GP diagnosis in isolation is not, to my knowledge, sufficient evidence.

 

[ikcdab]

So your final appeal needs to focus on the fact that you did actually pay but that the website froze. The third appeal is looked at by an independent panel so has a much better chance of succeeding

 

[Sun Chariot]

Hello @trainuser16 in your post 5, you stated: "unfortunately the transaction never went through"
1) Did a payment get taken from your bank account or payment-card, for that incomplete ticket purchase?
2) on your phone's internet browsing history, do you have evidence of you being on the ticket-purchase URLs up to and including "payment-processing" web page?
The latter may help evidence your intended purchase prior to boarding.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't understand all the posts about disability. You said right up front that you couldn't show a ticket because the website froze. So itc would be wrong to now suggest that the lack of ticket was somehow due to being disabled.

If the OP cannot use the ticket office or machines owing to their disability they are entitled to buy on board without equivocation and regardless of whether they have tried any other method. In this case if they had simply boarded without a ticket and without any attempt to use the website they'd have been entitled to buy a ticket on board without penalty.

 

[Haywain]

So your final appeal needs to focus on the fact that you did actually pay but that the website froze.

No, it doesn't. That is not a valid reason for not holding a ticket. An appeal focussed on that would be likely to fail.