Need to purchase a ticket before boarding

[gray1404]

I travel with my concessionary travel pass, which is valid to the last station in the county (Merseyside), and will purchase a ticket for the remainder of the journey.

Example:
Pass: Liverpool to Newton-le-Wilows
Ticket: Newton-le-Wilows to Manchester

Usually I have my ticket for the remainder purchased before I board the train. However the other day it was very hit and miss which train I'd catch.

I therefore purchased an e-ticket once I was on the train but before it reached Newton-le-Wilows, so while my pass was valid until.

Under the latest conditions of travel, is this permitted? It's best I know for future reference.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is generally tolerated to buy an e-ticket on board (or a paper ticket from staff where available) before the doors close at the last station stop at the end of validity of your existing ticket. Obviously if unable to do so for any reason you must alight there. It is something I have done many times.

However I believe the literal reading of the NRCoT is that a full set of tickets for the intended journey must be held before actually boarding. And I do seem to recall one thread (but only one) in Disputes about this sort of scenario.

The grey area in the wording is where the intended journey changes while already on board of course.

 

[81A]

Would stepping out onto the platform and then back onto the train at the station where you change tickets be enough to “validate” the on board purchased ticket by splitting one journey into two “journeys”?

If so, I suppose that would be one option to be totally safe (with platform selfie for evidence )…

 

[redreni]

Would stepping out onto the platform and then back onto the train at the station where you change tickets be enough to “validate” the on board purchased ticket by splitting one journey into two “journeys”?

If so, I suppose that would be one option to be totally safe (with platform selfie for evidence )…

Yes, I should think so. "Journey" is not defined, despite being important for various provisions of the NRCoT, including the requirement to buy before boarding and delay repay.

I'm not sure how delay repay works with a concessionary pass? If the value of the pass is considered to be zero, then it makes no difference if the value of any delay repay claim is based on the combined value of the concessionary pass and the purchased ticket or just on the value of the purchased ticket.

If you're defining your journey from wherever you got on to Newton-le-Willows, and your journey from Newton-le-Willows to wherever you're going, as two separate journeys, however, then I would say that in the event your train was delayed heavily before you arrived at Newton-le-Willows, you wouldn't be able to claim delay repay. This is because the delay happened on the first journey and the value of the ticket was zero. If you want to consider it as one journey using two tickets then you need both tickets, covering the whole journey, before you start.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Would stepping out onto the platform and then back onto the train at the station where you change tickets be enough to “validate” the on board purchased ticket by splitting one journey into two “journeys”?

If so, I suppose that would be one option to be totally safe (with platform selfie for evidence )…

Lovely idea, but do trains stay long enough at Newton to make it practical?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Usually I have my ticket for the remainder purchased before I board the train. However the other day it was very hit and miss which train I'd catch.

Are you using Advance tickets, those tied to just the one train? If not, it doesn't matter which train you catch and whether it was different to whatever you were forced to specify when buying provided you are within any Peak/Off PeaK or operator restrictions.

 

[gray1404]

Are you using Advance tickets, those tied to just the one train? If not, it doesn't matter which train you catch and whether it was different to whatever you were forced to specify when buying provided you are within any Peak/Off PeaK or operator restrictions.

Yes I use advance tickets. Which is why it was vital I selected the correct train once I knew which one I would be on.

 

[81A]

Lovely idea, but do trains stay long enough at Newton to make it practical?

Fair point, looking at realtime trains it seems that most trains stop for 1 minute...

Still probably possible if standing by the door with phone camera at the ready for quick selfie, though...

 

[gray1404]

I personally think a prosecution attempt would fail. Provided a person purchases another ticket before their current one expires at whatever station that is or leaves the train at that station. How could a person be penalized for purchasing a further tickets before the current one has expired.

I think the provisions in the latest conditions are designed to cover situations where a person has already started travel without a ticket but then purchases one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I personally think a prosecution attempt would fail. Provided a person purchases another ticket before their current one expires at whatever station that is or leaves the train at that station. How could a person be penalized for purchasing a further tickets before the current one has expired.

I think the provisions in the latest conditions are designed to cover situations where a person has already started travel without a ticket but then purchases one.

I would agree regarding intention, but would point out that there are a number of misinformed staff, staff who like easy targets, and prosecutions departments that don't do any critical appraisal of RPI reports before starting the procedure.

Thus, while I have done this in the past, I can only recommend that if it is possible to have the full set of tickets on boarding you should do so to avoid any risk of frustrating and time consuming issues. As Lime St has a booking office, this is possible even if you don't want to use your phone for it.

While contract terms are supposed to be interpreted in the consumer's favour, one can rely on the railway to do the opposite, and most people don't fancy a day in Court.