Cadbury, Moreton Cheshire

[The Crab]

When I were a lad I used to see daily van trains from Cadbury at Moreton which went through the Docks to the Birkenhead - Chester line (originally via West Kirby). These were hauled by Crabs and 0-6-0Ts until these were replaced by 2-6-4Ts and Black 5s in 1967. Where did these trains go? Did they change engines outside Birkenhead 6C/8H shed? When did they finish (I think they ran with Sulzer 2s after steam)?

 

[Springs Branch]

Do you remember what time of day you used to see the van trains?

I have a 1965 Freight Working Timetable for the Birkenhead to Chester line (but it doesn't cover the West Kirby line). There was a steady trickle of goods trains booked from the Birkenhead area through the day (and night), but none mention Moreton as the origin or destination.

Most seemed to go to fairly local yards like Warrington, Saltney (Chester) or Crewe Basford Hall, where presumably the wagons would be re-marshalled for other destinations. A couple of trains in 1965 went through to further destinations, like Carlisle, York or Banbury, though these originated at places like Birkenhead Shore Road Goods depot or Morpeth Dock, so presumably not the Cadbury trains.

This post on Facebook shows one of the Cadbury van trains leaving Moreton in August 1966 behind Birkenhead shed's Crab 2-6-0 no. 42727.
As it says in the caption, many of the vans were dedicated to Cadbury's traffic and stenciled "Return to Cadburys Moreton Wirral".

 

[The Crab]

Do you remember what time of day you used to see the van trains?

I have a 1965 Freight Working Timetable for the Birkenhead to Chester line (but it doesn't cover the West Kirby line). There was a steady trickle of goods trains booked from the Birkenhead area through the day (and night), but none mention Moreton as the origin or destination.

Most seemed to go to fairly local yards like Warrington, Saltney (Chester) or Crewe Basford Hall, where presumably the wagons would be re-marshalled for other destinations. A couple of trains in 1965 went through to further destinations, like Carlisle, York or Banbury, though these originated at places like Birkenhead Shore Road Goods depot or Morpeth Dock, so presumably not the Cadbury trains.

This post on Facebook shows one of the Cadbury van trains leaving Moreton in August 1966 behind Birkenhead shed's Crab 2-6-0 no. 42727.
As it says in the caption, many of the vans were dedicated to Cadbury's traffic and stenciled "Return to Cadburys Moreton Wirral".

Thank you for your reply. I'm struggling to remember the time when I saw the train but I think it was early afternoon. I'll check with my brother, who might remember.

 

[Taunton]

From 1963 we either visited relations, or then lived, on the West Kirby line, and I would always look out at the Cadbury's yard at Moreton when passing. It had a trailing lead to the Liverpool-bound line. There was a crossover between the running lines at Moreton station, but it appeared rusted and unused.

The freight train then appeared to be a mid-morning one, handled by a Jinty 3F loco, which ran until the end of steam, very late, coincided with the end of freight services on the line. Its daily (I presume) run took coal wagons and Cadbury vans. The closure of the old Hooton line station at West Kirby meant there were no run-round facilities there, or anywhere else on the line, so it was propelled all the way from Birkenhead North, outwards shunting the gas works at Hoylake and the coal yard at West Kirby, then on the return the coal yard at Hoylake (other side of line) and the Cadbury yard, laying over in these between electric trains and taking several hours for the round trip. There only seemed to be a few vans, sometimes none, and the Cadbury facilities anyway were just a series of short sidings. There was a small diesel loco in Cadbury livery, which I never saw move though it occasionally appeared to have done so, and an internal user van also smartly painted in Cadbury colours and kept clean, unlike the BR vans. The points into the Cadbury yard were closer to Leasowe signalbox than Moreton's, and the former was always manned, for the level crossing, so may well have controlled the points.

I presume the loads were mainly between Moreton and Bournville.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

The internal shunter was apparently Hudswell Clarke D1012 and is now preserved on static display at the Statfold Barn Railway

https://www.railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/view/624898/PL

 

[Gloster]

I don’t know anything specific about this particular traffic, but there are likely to be two alternatives depending on the load. If the wagons were loaded with finished products such as chocolate bars, biscuits, etc. the wagons were probably heading for one of the yards mentioned in #2, where the train would be split up and the wagons would then be conveyed in the wagon load network to goods depots all over the system. If they contained ‘raw’ or partially processed material, such as bulk chocolate powder, they might be going to other Cadburys factories, such as Bournville, as a block; they might be split up for one than one factory (if Cadburys did have other factories than Bournville) or even to other small companies who relied on Cadburys for their raw material.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

According to the website of a model of Thurstaston station (link below) the traffic was to and from Bournville; empty vans from and loaded to.
So with reference to @Gloster above, the vans presumably conveyed raw or part-finished goods. I believe the Moreton factory primarily produced biscuits, so part-finished might be more likely.

Thurstaston - Train Workings

A Model Railway of Thurstaston station

www.thurstastonp4.uk

 

[Springs Branch]

The Derby Sulzers website has this entertaining account of life as a driver at Birkenhead MPD in the late 1960s.

Several times (firstly in the fourth paragraph) there are mentions of working the "Moreton for Cadburys tripper".

This description suggests that the trains operated as trip workings between Cadburys and one or other of the goods yards at Birkenhead - rather than running beyond Birkenhead as full trains. As per @Gloster's post, presumably the loaded Cadbury vans from Moreton would be broken up into several portions and then forwarded on from Birkenhead to various destinations around the country in separate trains.

Somewhere else in the history of the Cadbury Wirral factory, I read that their output was distributed to many different warehouses. Also, IIRC, that this went over to road haulage around 1971.

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Separate question, but vaguely on topic as it may or may not relate to Cadbury's traffic . . .

The 1965 WTT shows one train starting from Birkenhead 'Extension Sidings' (7H35 18:10 SX to Dewsnap).

Does anyone know where the 'Extension Sidings' were?

 

[Oxfordblues]

On the subject of Cadbury confectionery traffic I remember a warehouse near the railway swing-bridge over the Ship Canal in Salford/Manchester which received VWVs (vanwides) from Bournville with empty vans labelled "Return to Lifford" which I presume was the cleaning sidings. I visited on October 1971. Nothing was refrigerated so I wonder if the contents would melt in hot weather!

 

[Gloster]

On the subject of Cadbury confectionery traffic I remember a warehouse near the railway swing-bridge over the Ship Canal in Salford/Manchester which received VWVs (vanwides) from Bournville with empty vans labelled "Return to Lifford" which I presume was the cleaning sidings. Nothing was refrigerated so I wonder if the contents would melt in hot weather!

I think that ‘Return to Lifford’ was because there was no siding space at Bournville station: the Cadbury-dedicated wagons were returned to Lifford and held there until they could be shunted into Cadburys as required. More can be found on the excellent .warwickshirerailways.com site under LMS - Birmingham West Suburban Railway and Industrial Railways.

 

[Ianigsy]

My understanding was also that Moreton produced biscuits rather than chocolate, so it may well have been chocolate in from Bournville and biscuits out for distribution. If the finished product was going out nationwide, some or all of it might have gone out into Cadbury’s distribution network rather than all back to Bournville.

 

[Djgr]

My understanding was also that Moreton produced biscuits rather than chocolate, so it may well have been chocolate in from Bournville and biscuits out for distribution. If the finished product was going out nationwide, some or all of it might have gone out into Cadbury’s distribution network rather than all back to Bournville.

Pretty certain that when the factory first opened it produced chocolates, but this did change over the years.

 

[Gloster]

I think that vans carrying Cadbury’s chocolate powder were dedicated to this traffic and were not to be used for any other traffic, so would run empty in one direction. It is quite possible that vans carrying finished Cadbury’s products were also dedicated to the traffic, but I am not definite on this point.

 

[Taunton]

I believe that they used plain BR vans to minimise pilfering when they were en route.

Maybe I'm the only one here who actually went around inside the Cadbury Moreton factory, on a school trip (supposedly the Economics class!). They were principally an assembly line production for biscuits, chocolate-coated ones of course, and the individual bars you get at shop display counters. As well as Bournville they had some product interchange with Frys in Bristol, which although separately badged had long been part of the Cadbury organisation. In addition to production, the premises served as major distribution points, covering North (Moreton), Midlands (Bournville) and South (Bristol), hence substantial exchange of products between them. The factory opened mid-1950s. For a company much reliant on product transport and interchange it was a surprising location at the top end of the Wirral peninsula, with awkward rail and road access.

 

[Djgr]

I believe that they used plain BR vans to minimise pilfering when they were en route.

Maybe I'm the only one here who actually went around inside the Cadbury Moreton factory, on a school trip (supposedly the Economics class!). They were principally an assembly line production for biscuits, chocolate-coated ones of course, and the individual bars you get at shop display counters. As well as Bournville they had some product interchange with Frys in Bristol, which although separately badged had long been part of the Cadbury organisation. In addition to production, the premises served as major distribution points, covering North (Moreton), Midlands (Bournville) and South (Bristol), hence substantial exchange of products between them. The factory opened mid-1950s. For a company much reliant on product transport and interchange it was a surprising location at the top end of the Wirral peninsula, with awkward rail and road access.

I never went around but my mother did, when I was about six. I remember being thrilled living so close to a chocolate factory.

I imagine the location was, in part, driven by government policy to concentrate investment on areas where jobs were required.

That's before Maggie went North-bashing obviously.

 

[Taunton]

I never went around but my mother did, when I was about six. I remember being thrilled living so close to a chocolate factory.

I imagine the location was, in part, driven by government policy to concentrate investment on areas, where jobs were required.

That's before Maggie went North-bashing obviously.

There was much government encouragement of Merseyside investment in the 1950s-60s, as traditional docks and dockside employment (eg flour and sugar processing) fell away. The Ford and Vauxhall plants, on opposite sides of the upper Mersey estuary, are best known, but there are others, Stanlow refinery, chemicals at Ellesmere Port. Moreton had a high percentage of female labour, which was a government desire away from heavy industry, went along with the National Giro Bank next to old Aintree loco shed etc.

 

[The Crab]

Thanks to all who have contributed to this topic. It is about something I saw regularly for many years but haven't thought about for 59 years!

 

[Gloster]

The 1965 WTT shows one train starting from Birkenhead 'Extension Sidings' (7H35 18:10 SX to Dewsnap).
View attachment 204844
Does anyone know where the 'Extension Sidings' were?

I have searched around but can’t find an answer. I can only presume that, based on the timetable entry, it is somewhere adjacent to the East or West Float Basins, possibly on one of the later lines. Unless it is marked on the map at the front of the timetable, you will have to search books, etc. on Birkenhead’s railways.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I have searched around but can’t find an answer. I can only presume that, based on the timetable entry, it is somewhere adjacent to the East or West Float Basins, possibly on one of the later lines. Unless it is marked on the map at the front of the timetable, you will have to search books, etc. on Birkenhead’s railways.

The most infamous ‘extension’ to Birkenhead Docks was the Vittoria Dock in the 1900s, intended for newer and larger ships. On the last day of construction in March 1909 a temporary coffer dam collapsed and the workers were engulfed. Heavy loss of life and weeks to retrieve some of the bodies. Many historical references available.

Although I did go to Birkenhead Docks periodically whilst working on Merseyside in the 1970s I’m afraid that I don’t recall the Extension Sidings but the decline and rationalisation were well advanced by then.

Perhaps others will know more.