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“Also valid on southeastern high speed” tickets

StratfordP

Member
Joined
12 May 2022
Messages
20
Location
London
Yesterday I took a day trip to Folkestone from Stratford International. It was an extremely hot day and so high speed trains were jam packed (I actually initially planned to go to Margate but couldn’t board a train so changed our plan to folkestone by buying a Ashford Intl to Folkestone ticket). They were only running 6 car trains past Ashford International.

On the way back, we were not allowed onto the platform for our planned train (to Stratford International) and were advised by gate staff to return 20 minutes early for the next train to have a hope of getting on the next train.

As I arrived at the platform, the platform was already packed and we felt I had little hope of getting on the next one either, but a relatively empty Charing Cross train arrived (with seats!) - so I got on (also slightly nervous I might actually get stranded for the night if we waited to get on the last two trains back via high speed)

I duly, and probably entirely excessively, bought an additional single Ashford Intl to London Bridge ticket online as the train pulled in to Ashford Intl (an extra £20 on top of the £28 off peak day return, bought with network railcard).

As we pulled out of Ashford I saw and asked the guard if I could in fact excess the fare to London Bridge and he said that it wasn’t possible, they are “entirely different lines” and the only thing he could do would be something that would cost me “hundreds of pounds” and so he’d prefer I tried my luck at the gates. (I didn’t mention the Ashford Intl to London Bridge ticket I had just bought). So I’ve got three questions:

  • Is there really no way to excess a ticket labelled “also valid on southeastern high speed”?
  • Is there a legitimate route to Stratford International that is not on high speed with this ticket?
  • am I eligible for delay repay for having been turned away at the barriers initially?

It seems absurd that when the train company cannot guarantee boarding onto a train, we cannot find reasonable alternative routes to our destination without a substantial additional cost.

sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any pointers (as this is likely to be a relatively regular journey for me)
 
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Haywain

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3 Feb 2013
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24,820
Is there really no way to excess a ticket labelled “also valid on southeastern high speed”?
No, because there is no need to. It is additional validity you pay for, hence the use of the word plus.
 
Joined
16 Aug 2017
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456
Probably to Stratford rather than Stratford International.
Via central London though? I'd have thought that the ticket would only get you to Victoria, Charing Cross, etc., or through Thameslink to St Pancras, if on the "historic" route
Edit: nonsense, see below :D
 
Last edited:

StratfordP

Member
Joined
12 May 2022
Messages
20
Location
London
Via central London though? I'd have thought that the ticket would only get you to Victoria, Charing Cross, etc., or through Thameslink to St Pancras, if on the "historic" route
Thanks to both of you.

this would have done me really, I just needed to get into London Bridge, or anywhere reasonable in London that the trained stopped at, and then was (almost) equivalent for me to use oyster from there to get home.

Instead I ended up paying an extra £20 to make sure I wouldn’t get caught out.
 

Haywain

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Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,820
Via central London though? I'd have thought that the ticket would only get you to Victoria, Charing Cross, etc., or through Thameslink to St Pancras, if on the "historic" route
The ticket doesn't carry a cross-London marker so you'd likely have trouble using it on the underground, but it is valid via London to Stratford. You could change at London Bridge and Farringdon and use the Elizabeth line to Stratford, or you could go through to St Pancras and use the High Speed line to Stratford International (I could foresee difficulty with this at the Southeastern barriers at St Pancras, but that doesn't affect the validity).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Instead I ended up paying an extra £20 to make sure I wouldn’t get caught out.
You had absolutely no need to do that. I would be writing to Southeastern and asking them to refund that as it was only purchased due to your misunderstanding. You could also mention the nonsense that the guard fed you about your ticket.
 
Joined
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Messages
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You could change at London Bridge and Farringdon and use the Elizabeth line to Stratford, or you could go through to St Pancras and use the High Speed line to Stratford International
Sorry, in my head it was a London to Folkestone ticket. Probably because I buy a lot of those. I think the Elizabeth line might be more trouble than via St Pancras, because of the lack of a +

I would be writing to Southeastern and asking them to refund that as it was only purchased due to your misunderstanding. You could also mention the nonsense that the guard fed you about your ticket.
Very good advice!
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,820
I think the Elizabeth line might be more trouble than via St Pancras, because of the lack of a +
Maybe, but changing at London Bridge, Farringdon and then going through to Stratford means no barriers to contend with.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,388
Maybe, but changing at London Bridge, Farringdon and then going through to Stratford means no barriers to contend with.
Thameslink core shut this weekend, and a passenger still needs to be able to exit Stratford station rather than Stratford International station.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,820
Thameslink core shut this weekend, and a passenger still needs to be able to exit Stratford station rather than Stratford International station.
I'm talking theoretically, and as the OP has already travelled that's all that is of any use.
 

marshlinker

Member
Joined
18 May 2026
Messages
189
Location
Romney Marsh
Yesterday I took a day trip to Folkestone from Stratford International. It was an extremely hot day and so high speed trains were jam packed (I actually initially planned to go to Margate but couldn’t board a train so changed our plan to folkestone by buying a Ashford Intl to Folkestone ticket). They were only running 6 car trains past Ashford International.

On the way back, we were not allowed onto the platform for our planned train (to Stratford International) and were advised by gate staff to return 20 minutes early for the next train to have a hope of getting on the next train.

As I arrived at the platform, the platform was already packed and we felt I had little hope of getting on the next one either, but a relatively empty Charing Cross train arrived (with seats!) - so I got on (also slightly nervous I might actually get stranded for the night if we waited to get on the last two trains back via high speed)

I duly, and probably entirely excessively, bought an additional single Ashford Intl to London Bridge ticket online as the train pulled in to Ashford Intl (an extra £20 on top of the £28 off peak day return, bought with network railcard).

As we pulled out of Ashford I saw and asked the guard if I could in fact excess the fare to London Bridge and he said that it wasn’t possible, they are “entirely different lines” and the only thing he could do would be something that would cost me “hundreds of pounds” and so he’d prefer I tried my luck at the gates. (I didn’t mention the Ashford Intl to London Bridge ticket I had just bought). So I’ve got three questions:

  • Is there really no way to excess a ticket labelled “also valid on southeastern high speed”?
  • Is there a legitimate route to Stratford International that is not on high speed with this ticket?
  • am I eligible for delay repay for having been turned away at the barriers initially?

It seems absurd that when the train company cannot guarantee boarding onto a train, we cannot find reasonable alternative routes to our destination without a substantial additional cost.

sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any pointers (as this is likely to be a relatively regular journey for me)
For Future journeys down to Kent assuming you are buying online, Id recomend buying your tickets from Stratford (London) rather than International to Kent Station. Theses are normally a few pence either way but are routed "+ any permitted" which includes hs1 and means you can return via the main line and underground if necessary without worry.
Any "beach" day you are going to find hs1 out of London jammed there is just far more demand than rolling stock.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
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18,153
Stratford International to Folkestone is valid via London and journey planners will offer an itinerary if you specify 'via City Thameslink' (you need to search on a day when the TL core is open). A ticket routed 'plus HS' can be used on the classic route without further payment (and in 1st class, iirc)

The ticket doesn't have a Maltese Cross on it, so I would not fancy my chances using it on the London Underground (although it's one of those where it is 'technically' valid) but it is valid via the Thameslink core. Unfortunately the core is closed this weekend but ticket acceptance is supposed to be in place via the Underground.

There was no need for @StratfordP to pay an additional fare.
 

185143

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2013
Messages
5,367
Don't think that's right about first class.
SE no longer have 1st class.

Pretty sure it used to be the case that High Speed tickets were valid in 1st on non HS services though?
 

Hadders

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Messages
18,153
Don't think that's right about first class.
There was definitely something about 1st class tickets and HS1 - thinking about it I think it might've been that if you had a 1st class ticket for the classic route you could use the High Speed service without paying the supplement?

As noted bove, a bit of a moot point given that Southeastern no longer has 1st class.
 

185143

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2013
Messages
5,367
There was definitely something about 1st class tickets and HS1 - thinking about it I think it might've been that if you had a 1st class ticket for the classic route you could use the High Speed service without paying the supplement?

As noted bove, a bit of a moot point given that Southeastern no longer has 1st class.
That was it, I'm certain.
 

StratfordP

Member
Joined
12 May 2022
Messages
20
Location
London
Stratford International to Folkestone is valid via London and journey planners will offer an itinerary if you specify 'via City Thameslink' (you need to search on a day when the TL core is open). A ticket routed 'plus HS' can be used on the classic route without further payment (and in 1st class, iirc)

The ticket doesn't have a Maltese Cross on it, so I would not fancy my chances using it on the London Underground (although it's one of those where it is 'technically' valid) but it is valid via the Thameslink core. Unfortunately the core is closed this weekend but ticket acceptance is supposed to be in place via the Underground.

There was no need for @StratfordP to pay an additional fare.
Thanks all, your replies have been really helpful.


I’ll try my luck writing to them and the seller (the forum ticketing site) to see if I can get the unnecessary ticket refunded, but are least I know for next time!
 

boiledbeans2

Member
Joined
15 Oct 2020
Messages
977
Location
UK
Thameslink core shut this weekend, and a passenger still needs to be able to exit Stratford station rather than Stratford International station.
From Stratford, take the DLR to Stratford International, and you would have indeed arrived at the intended destination without passing through barriers. ;)
 

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