What's the History behind EMR class 170?

[ivorytoast28]

EMR 170 have arguably the most comfortable standard class seating on the network in the front/rear segment that presumably were once first class compartments?

A lot of passengers, even on crowded services, don't realise these are standard class

Very comfy wide seats and standard class throughout yet it seems EMR only got these trains in 2020. Did EMR have regional first class as recently as 2020 or is it a hangover from their former operator (scotrail?)

 

[Segedunum]

That is Greater Anglia moquette - those seats date from when regional services in Norfolk/Suffolk had First Class, and from when that unit worked for Greater Anglia.

The units with First ScotRail moquette indeed also have First Class seating as a hangover from there. EMR Regional services have never had advertised First Class.

 

[tfw756rider]

East Midlands Railway / EMR's 43 170s came from a few different operators:

• The 12 170/2s (4x 2-car 170270-273 and 8x 3-car 170201-208) - ex-Transport for Wales but still Greater Anglia interior (as mentioned above, it's one of these units that you picture)
• The 8 170/4s (all 3-car) - 5 of these (170417-420) came straight from ScotRail so have old ScotRail interior, and 3 (170422-424) were Southern 171s (in-between being ScotRail 170s and EMR 170s), so have Southern interior
• The 23 170/5s (all 2-car) - 170501-170517, and shortened "ex-170/6" 170530-535 - at least 7 of these have had EMR-spec interior refurbishments, but the ones that haven't yet been refurbished still have ex-London Midland interior (which never had first class)

 

[norbitonflyer]

The original 170/1s, which were built for Midland Main Line's services out of St Pancras, have First Class. With changes in franchises they moved fiorst to central Trains and then to Cross Country

 

[chubs]

That is Greater Anglia moquette - those seats date from when regional services in Norfolk/Suffolk had First Class, and from when that unit worked for Greater Anglia.

One of the GA staff can answer more accurately but the ex GA (One / Anglia Railways) three car units had first class from the crosslink services

London Crosslink - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't think the two cars used on the Cambridge service had 1st and when crosslink ended they all got mixed up. 170's appeared on Liverpool St to Norwich sometimes too in the Anglia days, and that Peterborough service.

 

[JonathanH]

One of the GA staff can answer more accurately but the ex GA (One / Anglia Railways) three car units had first class from the crosslink services

The eight 3-car 170/2 units had more first class seats initially than they do now. The front and middle section of the 502xx vehicle was first class. The middle section was reseated with standard class seats when the units moved to local Anglia services.

They weren't only procured for Crosslink services, but also to provide through services to London off the unelectrified branches.

 

[Clarence Yard]

And for the uplift to half hourly on the off peak Norwich services. They worked a variety of services when they were new and shortly afterwards found themselves working KX to Hull as well!

170270-3 had a small first class “snug” from new for the Norwich-Cambridge service introduction. I spec’d that!

 

[Russel]

The original 170/1s, which were built for Midland Main Line's services out of St Pancras, have First Class. With changes in franchises they moved fiorst to central Trains and then to Cross Country

Was in the centre coach on ex MML stock from memory and was very comfortable, I always made a beeline doe it when they transfered to XC.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Was in the centre coach on ex MML stock from memory and was very comfortable, I always made a beeline doe it when they transfered to XC.

The centre coach with first class was a later addition to some, not all, MML Cl 170. At first, the MML 170s were two car with 2+2 in the 'First', behind the cab at one end.

 

[Russel]

The centre coach with first class was a later addition to some, not all, MML Cl 170. At first, the MML 170s were two car with 2+2 in the 'First', behind the cab at one end.

Ah thanks, it's been a few years!

So the MML 170s were all built as 2 car?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Ah thanks, it's been a few years!

So the MML 170s were all built as 2 car?

Indeed.
There was something about this at the time in Modern Railway's Informed Sources. The new franchise was a coach-orientated company (National Express) and did its costings based on the cost of new road coaches. Turned out that they were surprised that £800,000 (from memory) only bought 2 rail coaches. I think that they were expecting 8.
170s were the only trains to stop South of Leicester in the new service and originated from further North (Barnsley, Matlock, Burton) so it seemed to be a similar surprise to them - but no-one else - that on the Up they were completely full and standing by Leicester with London passengers. The solution - non stop to St Pancras.
My personal record is watching 3 'cancelled' service roll through Wellingborough without stopping, with passengers squashed against the door windows.

 

[CHAPS2034]

The 8 170/4s (all 3-car) - 5 of these (170417-420) came straight from ScotRail so have old ScotRail interior, and 3 (170422-424) were Southern 171s (in-between being ScotRail 170s and EMR 170s), so have Southern interior

Think you mean 170416 -20?

 

[ExRes]

Ah thanks, it's been a few years!

So the MML 170s were all built as 2 car?

All 17 started as 2 car, 101 - 110 were increased to 3 car while 111 - 117 stayed a 2 car

 

[Peter Mugridge]

EMR 170 have arguably the most comfortable standard class seating on the network in the front/rear segment that presumably were once first class compartments?

A lot of passengers, even on crowded services, don't realise these are standard class

Very comfy wide seats and standard class throughout yet it seems EMR only got these trains in 2020. Did EMR have regional first class as recently as 2020 or is it a hangover from their former operator (scotrail?)

Put very simply - when the 170s were built, they still fitted proper seats to trains generally.

 

[childwallblues]

EMR have increased their use of class 170s on Norwich-Liverpool services with 5 or 6 car trains west of Nottingham.

 

[Trainman40083]

EMR have increased their use of class 170s on Norwich-Liverpool services with 5 or 6 car trains west of Nottingham.

Do they fit in all the platforms the service serves, or do they have selective door opening?

 

[liamf656]

Do they fit in all the platforms the service serves, or do they have selective door opening?

The 170s have SDO (unlike 158s)

 

[Trainfan2019]

EMR 170 have arguably the most comfortable standard class seating on the network in the front/rear segment that presumably were once first class compartments?

A lot of passengers, even on crowded services, don't realise these are standard class

Very comfy wide seats and standard class throughout yet it seems EMR only got these trains in 2020. Did EMR have regional first class as recently as 2020 or is it a hangover from their former operator (scotrail?)

The first class seats are left from previous operators. I love it when my 170 turns up with an old first class section and yes, some people still think they can't enter as it's first class. I'm sat in there and rarely anyone else appears.

I can't remember which former 170 operator they belong to but there were/are still pushbutton working doors to the first class compartment on some EMR 170s. Yet on another former 170 operator trains with EMR, the compartment doors are either locked open or non existent.

I was on an EMR 170 earlier this year, possibly same interior as your photo and one of the first class single seats had a well taped armrest. Plenty of black cloth tape holding it together! Seats shabby but still comfortable although it always feels I'm in a semi-reclined position without any method of adjusting.

 

[Trainman40083]

The first class seats are left from previous operators. I love it when my 170 turns up with an old first class section and yes, some people still think they can't enter as it's first class. I'm sat in there and rarely anyone else appears.

I can't remember which former 170 operator they belong to but there were/are still pushbutton working doors to the first class compartment on some EMR 170s. Yet on another former 170 operator trains with EMR, the compartment doors are either locked open or non existent.

I was on an EMR 170 earlier this year, possibly same interior as your photo and one of the first class single seats had a well taped armrest. Plenty of black cloth tape holding it together! Seats shabby but still comfortable although it always feels I'm in a semi-reclined position without any method of adjusting.

I did travel back from Nottingham on a former Anglia/TfW class 170. That certainly had at least one seat with a taped armrest.