Great British Railways - First Train in New Livery

[StephenHunter]

My thoughts exactly. It seems odd that the yellow is there (although I like it). So much effort was made in many quarters to be able to do away with it that it's surprising to see it retained. Perhaps the application of the vinyls didn't extend to the cab ends? It would be amusing to see yellow ends applied to units which were delivered under the privatised regime without them!

Yellow front is no longer mandatory, but still considered good practice, especially if you have a line with a lot of level crossings.

 

[Farigiraf]

I would think that a 730/0 in West Midlands livery might confuse someone at Euston looking for a Tring train. That's the problem with line-specific liveries, makes efficient inter-use problematic.

GBR is going to split up the WM franchise though. There'll be separate North Western and West Midlands brands - see post 300. And anyway, AFAIK generally the 3-car 730s stick to WMR commuter lines and the 5-car 730s stick to LNR routes.

 

[warwickshire]

It might be possible on Chiltern Railways,
by the tiime the Mk5 loco hauled set CH01 enters service due to it being umbranded, and the Spare DT12802, still at Long Marston, also unbranded, both coming into service back end of the year, when Chiltern Railways, is GBR, they both could also be in the new GBR , Chiltern Railways, livery,
As well.

 

[warwickshire]

After all, Strathclyde Transport orange livered Class 156 did wonder away from the Strathclyde area to places like Stranrear and Newcastle upon Tyne (that's in the Tyne and Wear PTE area). Unit 156502 even went to Utrecht in '89.

And Whitehaven, in the afternoon, on the Carlisle to Whitehaven service,
Also Newcastle Tyne and Wear pte livery units ie class 142 Pacers, often worked in and early to Mid Nineties, before privitisation, the morning Dumfries to Carlisle, am peak service, before, working the Carlisle to Newcastle, service when it arrived at Carlisle. From Dumfries.

 

[Merle Haggard]

GBR is going to split up the WM franchise though. There'll be separate North Western and West Midlands brands - see post 300. And anyway, AFAIK generally the 3-car 730s stick to WMR commuter lines and the 5-car 730s stick to LNR routes.

My point was that the WMR orange 730/0s are currently used on Euston - Bletchley trains.

 

[Russel]

It appears that we'll have to bin Scotrail and Transport for Wales too in the interests of fairness.

Nothing wrong with the TFW livery, it isn't in your face nationalism.

 

[MrJeeves]

I would think that a 730/0 in West Midlands livery might confuse someone at Euston looking for a Tring train. That's the problem with line-specific liveries, makes efficient inter-use problematic.

Thank goodness that LNR and WMR will be merged into one "new TOC" under GBR so that their unit interworking won't be confusing with the names on the side.

Oh wait...!

 

[Leyland Bus]

Every single GBR train having the same livery creates more confusion than cohesion.
WMR is an established identity that utilises the TfWM branding, getting rid of it and making every train in Birmingham New Street covered in Union Jacks is counterintuitive. There aren't many (if any) countries with a nationalised rail network equal to or larger than the UK network that has the same livery on every train. It's good to know what train serves roughly which set of services without knowing all about rolling stock types.

I mean yeah but imagine, just imagine, if there was some sort of device or devices that could actually tell you where the train that was approaching you was actually going?! Regardless of its colour! It'd be sublime...

 

[StephenHunter]

I mean yeah but imagine, just imagine, if there was some sort of device or devices that could actually tell you where the train that was approaching you was actually going?! Regardless of its colour! It'd be sublime...

Yes, they're called roller blinds. Frankly, route numbers would be good to have back.

 

[Chiltern006]

Apparently according to a handout given at Brighton station yesterday to members of the press for the launch of the new look train, the names for each operator will be:

It doesn't mention any of the other brands (Gatwick Express, Heathrow Express, Stansted Express etc).

I cannot link to the leaflet yet as it does have an embargo notice on it until sometime next week

NEW	OLD
Great British Railways | Southern	Southern Railway
Great British Railways | South East	Southeastern
Great British Railways | Thameslink	Thameslink
Great British Railways | Great Northern	Great Northern
Great British Railways | Great Western	GWR
Great British Railways | South Western	South Western Railway
Great British Railways | Island Line	Island Line
Great British Railways | Chiltern	Chiltern Railway
Great British Railways | Anglia	Greater Anglia/C2C
Great British Railways | East Coast	LNER
Great British Railways | West Coast	Avanti West Coast
Great British Railways | West Midlands	West Midlands Railway
Great British Railways | North Western	LNWR
Great British Railways | North	Northern
Great British Railways | TransPennine	TransPennine Express
Great British Railways | East Midlands	East Midlands Railway
Great British Railways | CrossCountry	CrossCountry Trains
Great British Railways | High Speed	Southeastern High Speed/HS2
Great British Railways | Sleeper	GWR Sleeper Service

“Tickets marked GBR North are NOT valid on this service, if you travel with this ticket you will be required to purchase a new ticket”

The basics really need to be fixed before slapping new colours across the trains. People associate companies with colours e.g. the green train at Victoria is Southern.

Added to this, West Midlands shouldn’t be GBR in my opinion, it should be part of the TfWM operation.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Apparently according to a handout given at Brighton station yesterday to members of the press for the launch of the new look train, the names for each operator will be:

It doesn't mention any of the other brands (Gatwick Express, Heathrow Express, Stansted Express etc).

I cannot link to the leaflet yet as it does have an embargo notice on it until sometime next week

NEW	OLD
Great British Railways | Southern	Southern Railway
Great British Railways | South East	Southeastern
Great British Railways | Thameslink	Thameslink
Great British Railways | Great Northern	Great Northern
Great British Railways | Great Western	GWR
Great British Railways | South Western	South Western Railway
Great British Railways | Island Line	Island Line
Great British Railways | Chiltern	Chiltern Railway
Great British Railways | Anglia	Greater Anglia/C2C
Great British Railways | East Coast	LNER
Great British Railways | West Coast	Avanti West Coast
Great British Railways | West Midlands	West Midlands Railway
Great British Railways | North Western	LNWR
Great British Railways | North	Northern
Great British Railways | TransPennine	TransPennine Express
Great British Railways | East Midlands	East Midlands Railway
Great British Railways | CrossCountry	CrossCountry Trains
Great British Railways | High Speed	Southeastern High Speed/HS2
Great British Railways | Sleeper	GWR Sleeper Service

Some thoughts:

- I can see GBR | North Western and GBR | North being an issue.
- Northern is the name which has been used for well over 10 years, why change that?
- GBR | North Western is silly, GBR | London Midland anyone?
- I assume announcements and CIS boards will just change to 'Service to' rather than GBR | xxxx, if not, it could be a mouthful for some of these!


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2026 ==

Added to this, West Midlands shouldn’t be GBR in my opinion, it should be part of the TfWM operation.

Its not currently devolved, I agree though especially as all the new trains have come in wearing the widely accepted diamond livery for all transport in the region

 

[Russel]

Northern is the name which has been used for well over 10 years, why change that?

More like 20 years, but it's a name that's taken some serious damage over those years.

 

[gc4946]

I'd merge GBR North and TransPennine as North.
South East and High Speed merged as South East.

 

[Warrior2852]

South East and High Speed merged as South East.

I imagine they'll want to keep things separate there because of the different ticketing structures HS1 has. It's a lot easier to explain to people "Don't get on a train labelled High Speed without a High Speed ticket" than it is trying to get everyone (particularly tourists) to learn it all by termini alone.

 

[JonathanH]

I imagine they'll want to keep things separate there because of the different ticketing structures HS1 has. It's a lot easier to explain to people "Don't get on a train labelled High Speed without a High Speed ticket" than it is trying to get everyone (particularly tourists) to learn it all by termini alone.

Surely people can tell the difference between a train with a pointy nose that goes to St Pancras on a different type of railway and one with a flat front that doesn't?

 

[SECR 65]

Surely people can tell the difference between a train with a pointy nose that goes to St Pancras on a different type of railway and one with a flat front that doesn't?

Although, HS services use domestic lines in East Kent, and the side of both those trains and others is blue.....

 

[Warrior2852]

Surely people can tell the difference between a train with a pointy nose that goes to St Pancras on a different type of railway and one with a flat front that doesn't?

Most people just see "train" and, if they're someone who knows the operators in the area, what colour it is - not the bodyshell shape. And even if every regular user paid enough attention, there's always people like tourists using the line who definitely won't know the difference on appearance alone.

 

[Snow1964]

I imagine they'll want to keep things separate there because of the different ticketing structures HS1 has. It's a lot easier to explain to people "Don't get on a train labelled High Speed without a High Speed ticket" than it is trying to get everyone (particularly tourists) to learn it all by termini alone.

Although it does cause a huge transition problem if ticket and itinerary wording are not amended to cover both names whilst repaints take place (which might be 8 years)

Imagine if you have ticket marked South Eastern only and a 4car train turns up marked South East. How is average tourist supposed to guess if ticket is valid on that train.

Then suppose they get a yes, valid, just ignore the names. Next day the tourist gets a train to Edinburgh and having understood ignore the names, what happens when innocently get on wrong operators trains

 

[adc82140]

Surely people can tell the difference between a train with a pointy nose that goes to St Pancras on a different type of railway and one with a flat front that doesn't?

Given the stories of people trying to find the doors of goods trains held at signals in platforms, don't over estimate the common sense of the Great British Public.

 

[Russel]

Surely people can tell the difference between a train with a pointy nose that goes to St Pancras on a different type of railway and one with a flat front that doesn't?

Most people just see a train.

And to be honest, why should passengers have to learn what type of train goes where just to avoid being stung by the overly complex fare system?

 

[JonathanH]

Most people just see a train.

And to be honest, why should passengers have to learn what type of train goes where just to avoid being stung by the overly complex fare system?

Indeed, the removal of operator-specific fares, and adoption of long distance fares only available on one booked train will avoid this issue.

 

[Andyh82]

I think that's quite literally the point, the likes of GB News and various others have attempted to capitalise on the flag and take ownership of it. By (to use an absolutely haunted phrase) "taking back control" of the national identity it can help to shift away from association with GB News and others.

It’s nothing to do with that. It’s not just the use of the flag it’s the way they’ve used it, GB News was a left wing news channel it’d still look like GB News

 

[Electrostar387]

It’s nothing to do with that.

In your opinion.

 

[Andyh82]

I'd merge GBR North and TransPennine as North.
South East and High Speed merged as South East.

There are multiple generations of people who know the difference between Northern and Transpennine Express

Why would you want to drop that difference, especially on the back of the route upgrade. They should be shouting about TPE not just merging it all in together with any old Northern local train.

If they brought back ‘Intercity’ as a brand, with a different livery, a brand which unlike British Rail I don’t think has negative connotations, this would all be solved

 

[pr1]

Apparently according to a handout given at Brighton station yesterday to members of the press for the launch of the new look train, the names for each operator will be:

It doesn't mention any of the other brands (Gatwick Express, Heathrow Express, Stansted Express etc).

I cannot link to the leaflet yet as it does have an embargo notice on it until sometime next week

NEW	OLD
Great British Railways | Southern	Southern Railway
Great British Railways | South East	Southeastern
Great British Railways | Thameslink	Thameslink
Great British Railways | Great Northern	Great Northern
Great British Railways | Great Western	GWR
Great British Railways | South Western	South Western Railway
Great British Railways | Island Line	Island Line
Great British Railways | Chiltern	Chiltern Railway
Great British Railways | Anglia	Greater Anglia/C2C
Great British Railways | East Coast	LNER
Great British Railways | West Coast	Avanti West Coast
Great British Railways | West Midlands	West Midlands Railway
Great British Railways | North Western	LNWR
Great British Railways | North	Northern
Great British Railways | TransPennine	TransPennine Express
Great British Railways | East Midlands	East Midlands Railway
Great British Railways | CrossCountry	CrossCountry Trains
Great British Railways | High Speed	Southeastern High Speed/HS2
Great British Railways | Sleeper	GWR Sleeper Service

I would have thought that this would have been the perfect opportunity to 'merge' northern and trans-pennine services into one GBR service. Keeping two seperate brands/branding seems unusual.

 

[Andyh82]

Of course what do people mean by ‘merge’?

Just stick the same word on the side of the trains, but operationally they are still completely separate with different drivers, different conductors, different rolling stock, different depots…

 

[pr1]

Of course what do people mean by ‘merge’?

Just stick the same word on the side of the trains, but operationally they are still completely separate with different drivers, different conductors, different rolling stock, different depots…

My perspective is, under the context of such a huge change, services currently run under Northern, and those currently run under TransPennine, have such geographic overlap that continuing the separation appears counterintuitive. A passenger in the north will soon lose the distinction between a northern service and a trans-pennine service, as both will be GBR, so why not just classify them both as GBR|North?

 

[JonathanH]

A passenger in the north will soon lose the distinction between a northern service and a trans-pennine service, as both will be GBR, so why not just classify them both as GBR|North?

It escapes me as to why even the subbranding is necessary. Is it just to do with a short term issue with operator specific fares? If so, that explains why the successor brands to Northern and TPE need to be separate, but if a change was made so those only existed for advance fares in the future, that could fall away.

 

[GoneSouth]

I hate to be negative but seriously what is the point of the new (awful) branding if it's going to retain the same area names anyway?

I hope that Richard parker here in the west midlands gets his way and retains the West Midlands branding for our transport network.

The west mids colour scheme is horrific! Others may disagree

I mean yeah but imagine, just imagine, if there was some sort of device or devices that could actually tell you where the train that was approaching you was actually going?! Regardless of its colour! It'd be sublime...

It’s going to take a lot longer to whip out a phone to check a platform than glance across to see the garish lipstick coloured XC and know that’s the Manchester train. Oh, and New Street recently have actually been announcing not to rely on apps for platform information. Imagine if I could just look and see a pink, orange or green train.

And before you tell me to read the dot matrix info on the side of some trains or the dot matrix platform signs, they’re not easy to read for many

 

[Warrior2852]

My perspective is, under the context of such a huge change, services currently run under Northern, and those currently run under TransPennine, have such geographic overlap that continuing the separation appears counterintuitive. A passenger in the north will soon lose the distinction between a northern service and a trans-pennine service, as both will be GBR, so why not just classify them both as GBR|North?

There's a noted difference in the types of train service they offer that it is beneficial to have a split between. Northern is exclusively commuter and regional trains, but TPE operates an InterCity service in a lot of areas, particularly the routes towards Scotland and Newcastle.