West Midlands Trains potential strike Fri/Sat 22/23May

[pokemonsuper9]

"You mean it was a bad idea to send the Class 139 down the WCML?"

At least one of them is still needed - the shuttle is still running (although it seems to be having a late start).

 

[Merle Haggard]

Any feedback on the loadings South of Rugby? Normally 2 8 cars an hour via Northampton, normally comfortably full - standees but spare seats - and the hourly T.V. service replaced by one per hour, admittedly 10 car instead of the normal 2 x 8 and 1 x 10

 

[MidsMike]

Are we to presume then that there is no ticket acceptance on Avanti?

EMR Stoke to Crewe and TFL Watford to London have been added

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any feedback on the loadings South of Rugby? Normally 2 8 cars an hour via Northampton, normally comfortably full - standees but spare seats - and the hourly T.V. service replaced by one per hour, admittedly 10 car instead of the normal 2 x 8 and 1 x 10

I can't give feedback from having travelled, but I can point out that 5.730 will easily fit the passengers from 8.350, mostly but not all seated, so a double set will cope just fine with a halved service and reduced passenger numbers as a lot will just not travel or drive instead. I can't see it being ridiculous to be honest.

8.350 = 206 x 2 = 412 seats
5.730/2 = 406 seats

The 730s really are people eaters. I have never seen a 10-car set actually properly busy - 812 seats is absolutely loads for any WCML service even in the high peak.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I have never seen a 10-car set actually properly busy

I have seen the 4-6 carriages at the London end properly busy.
But I usually travel in the near empty 10th carriage.

 

[riceuten]

Striking on a bank holiday weekend. Again hitting people visiting family etc rather than hitting business….pathetic stance from a union

Are you suggesting they strike in the middle of the night when no-one travels? Going on strike - correctly balloted and legally compliant - needs to have an effect to get the operator (or the DfT) back to the negotiating table

 

[PigScroll]

Chiltern look to be running an hourly Birmingham Moor Street - Solihull - Dorridge shuttle, has this been done before?

The bus ticket acceptance seems odd, no acceptance in for South Snow Hill lines but there is for North Snow Hill lines??

Industrial Action

Strike action by membe

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk

In the (distant) past, didn't Chiltern have a couple of trains a day calling at Widney Manor? If they could do it then, is there technically anything blocking them calling these shuttles there additionally?

 

[Sprinter107]

In the (distant) past, didn't Chiltern have a couple of trains a day calling at Widney Manor? If they could do it then, is there technically anything blocking them calling these shuttles there additionally?

Chiltern used to run one off Snow Hill around 22.15ish that called at Tyseley and then all stns to Banbury. I caught it a few times.

 

[spp]

Are you suggesting they strike in the middle of the night when no-one travels? Going on strike - correctly balloted and legally compliant - needs to have an effect to get the operator (or the DfT) back to the negotiating table

No im suggesting the go on strike during the week disrupting big business rather than the cowards way of disrupting people just trying to have a bit of leisure time.

A) surely more effective at targeting the decision makers and their ‘ilk’
B) keeps wider public on side

 

[trundlewagon]

Chiltern used to run one off Snow Hill around 22.15ish that called at Tyseley and then all stns to Banbury. I caught it a few times.

I'm sure at one point not too long ago there used to be one in the morning, formed off the back of a peak train into Snow Hill with a 165, that stopped at every station (maybe except Small Heath) all the way back to Marylebone. Think the train that left Brum behind it overtook it at West Ruislip.

 

[Falcon1200]

Half hours training should do to cover their jobs….

I'm presuming that is a comment on the training given to Contingency Guards rather than that needed for Controllers? It took me a bit longer than 30 minutes to train to become a Controller - over 30 years and I still didn't know everything!

 

[rdevz]

Are you suggesting they strike in the middle of the night when no-one travels? Going on strike - correctly balloted and legally compliant - needs to have an effect to get the operator (or the DfT) back to the negotiating table

I guess the counterpoint to your question is that given strike action on a railway is designed to cause the maximum amount of misery to the railway’s customers at the minimum cost to those striking, whether those people who are being targeted to be made miserable by the strike action should be in any way sympathetic to those who are deliberately making them miserable.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

I'm presuming that is a comment on the training given to Contingency Guards rather than that needed for Controllers? It took me a bit longer than 30 minutes to train to become a Controller - over 30 years and I still didn't know everything!

I was going to say I’ve seen the service almost collapse on account of controllers not being able to make decisions, it’s certainly not as easy as lots of controllers make it look

 

[riceuten]

I guess the counterpoint to your question is that given strike action on a railway is designed to cause the maximum amount of misery to the railway’s customers at the minimum cost to those striking, whether those people who are being targeted to be made miserable by the strike action should be in any way sympathetic to those who are deliberately making them miserable.

You can think what you like - oftentimes when strikes occur, people can be quite sympathetic. If strikes didn’t inconvenience anyone, nothing would happen

 

[800002]

Nope. This is down to train planners and control teams - and in a lesser immediate sense WMT’s commitments to deliver capacity in their agreement with DfT. Although control staff are the ones on strike so…

It's operational capability that determines the train plan. Full stop.
If operationally, a department wants to offer 8 cars instead 12, and it's agreed. 8 cars will operate.
Strike days relieve the operators obligation to deliver the capacity of the base plan which has been previously agreed, unless an supplementary agreement is in plan to deliver a set capacity in event of industrial action.
Who is on Strike is almost immerterial. It comes down to operational ability.

Presumably though if anything fails that diagram will just end up short formed for the rest of the day

Just like any other day on the railway, really.
Subject to control intervention on the day (as always).

 

[Horizon22]

It's operational capability that determines the train plan. Full stop.
If operationally, a department wants to offer 8 cars instead 12, and it's agreed. 8 cars will operate.
Strike days relieve the operators obligation to deliver the capacity of the base plan which has been previously agreed, unless an supplementary agreement is in plan to deliver a set capacity in event of industrial action.
Who is on Strike is almost immerterial. It comes down to operational ability.

When you talk about operational ability and capacity, that does of course include the train plan, made by planners. Whether the fleet teams can provide that is a daily challenge.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I'm sure at one point not too long ago there used to be one in the morning, formed off the back of a peak train into Snow Hill with a 165, that stopped at every station (maybe except Small Heath) all the way back to Marylebone. Think the train that left Brum behind it overtook it at West Ruislip.

Pre-Covid Chiltern had a 1624 stopping service to Snow Hill that took around three hours and got overtaken three times.

Example schedule here.

 

[800002]

When you talk about operational ability and capacity, that does of course include the train plan, made by planners. Whether the fleet teams can provide that is a daily challenge.

Yes. But the planning team (on the whole) can only plan to put into service the amount of units they know are going to finish in any particular location.

Unless, of course, there are agreements from other parts of the business to allow planning to unduly impose upon fleet and control and resource colleagues on the day of operation.

Pre-Covid Chiltern had a 1624 stopping service to Snow Hill that took around three hours and got overtaken three times.

Example schedule here.

They did indeed. And I'm glad it can never be repeated again.
It was almost a combination of three separate services.

 

[Sprinter107]

Pre-Covid Chiltern had a 1624 stopping service to Snow Hill that took around three hours and got overtaken three times.

Example schedule here.

It missed all of the Birmingham suburban stations though after Dorridge, other than the usual Chiltern stop at Solihull

 

[kkong]

Requested by not yet confirmed;
Avanti - Trent Valley

The Avanti train manager on today's 17:21 ex New Street made several announcements between New Street and Coventry saying that LNW tickets were not being accepted and that any such ticket holders should alight at the next stop or prepare to pay for a new tickets.

I was only on board because XC had thrown Birmingham International and Coventry passengers off at New Street with no notice (due to a diversion between New Street and Leamington), and no instructions as to any ticket acceptance ("speak to station staff").

Naturally there were no station staff offering any advice, and a seething mass of passengers on P5/P6 trying to head in all directions.

I boarded the 17:21 Avanti and continued to Coventry without any ticket checks. The train manager never said anything about XC tickets in any case.

 

[yorkie]

If anyone already bought a ticket, and would otherwise be stranded, they are entitled to be conveyed under the NRCoT, with no need for any "acceptance" by Avanti.

Avanti can huff and puff and throw their toys out of the pram all they like, but they must convey people if they are at all in a position to do so.

Anyone challenged should refuse to pay.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

On the Avanti I was on, the guard said that they were accepting LNR tickets but only for standard class and they wouldn'tbe declassifying first. I think his point was basically not to push it!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

On the Avanti I was on, the guard said that they were accepting LNR tickets but only for standard class and they wouldn'tbe declassifying first. I think his point was basically not to push it!

This is how it should be. Acceptance has been in place, though unadvertised at Avanti's request. Nobody should be being refused travel on Trent Valley Avanti services.

 

[spp]

Local rag reporting that passengers had to ‘break out’ of Walsall Station last night after the last two Rugeley services were cut short at Walsall because of the strikes (not sure if that was the actual reason thats how it’s being recorded).

Regardless of reason passengers left without rail replacement service and locked inside a station is a disgrace.

Watch: Passengers ‘break out’ of locked Walsall station amid strikes

Passengers said they were forced to lift a fence panel to get out of the station

www.expressandstar.com

Rail passengers caught up in the West Midlands train strike chaos have described scenes of confusion and frustration after the final trains between Birmingham and Rugeley Trent Valley were terminated early on Friday — leaving travellers stranded and allegedly locked inside Walsall station.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

And the "animals on the railway between Watford Junction and Milton Keynes Central" incident earlier this morning won't have helped either:
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/milton-keynes-central-20260523/

Lines have now reopened following animals on the railway between Watford Junction and Milton Keynes Central.

While service recovers, trains running between these stations may still be cancelled or delayed by up to 30 minutes.

This is expected to cause disruption until 14:45.

 

[moogal]

The 730s really are people eaters. I have never seen a 10-car set actually properly busy - 812 seats is absolutely loads for any WCML service even in the high peak.

I've seen a 10 car full all the way to the front on a late night service out of Euston, but it didn't feel anywhere near as sardine-tin as a 350 would.

 

[Watershed]

This is how it should be. Acceptance has been in place, though unadvertised at Avanti's request. Nobody should be being refused travel on Trent Valley Avanti services.

The kind of corporate attitude where that is seen as a remotely acceptable arrangement (either for Avanti to propose or WMT to accept) needs to be stamped out.

The vast majority of people will be none the wiser as to this arrangement and many will have bought new tickets at significant cost or cancelled their tickets and driven instead.

What an utter own goal by the industry.

 

[Meole]

The kind of corporate attitude where that is seen as a remotely acceptable arrangement (either for Avanti to propose or WMT to accept) needs to be stamped out.

The vast majority of people will be none the wiser as to this arrangement and many will have bought new tickets at significant cost or cancelled their tickets and driven instead.

What an utter own goal by the industry.

Avanti are surely entitled to maximise revenue by not advertising.

 

[yorkie]

Avanti are surely entitled to maximise revenue by not advertising.

This demonstrates how the primary aim of operators such as Avanti is to maximise the amount people pay, over and above what people actually need to pay, rather than to provide a genuine service.

 

[Sparks807Evo]

I'm sure at one point not too long ago there used to be one in the morning, formed off the back of a peak train into Snow Hill with a 165, that stopped at every station (maybe except Small Heath) all the way back to Marylebone. Think the train that left Brum behind it overtook it at West Ruislip.

The equivalent to the 0631 from Marylebone to Snow Hill until the timetable recast in 2023 would stop at Widney Manor and Olton - there was also an evening service in the peak which would stop too.

Good that Chiltern are doing the shuttles today - whilst not as good as the days when they could stop at more places en-route at least it is something.

Roll on GBR for some better joined up thinking on service cover in disruption / resilience planning and also ticket acceptance.