Great British Railways - First Train in New Livery

[saismee]

JUST IN FROM THE SOUTH WEST - Another train has been Union Jackified in another new GBR livery - it's 701006.View attachment 204617

Interesting that it still has the Arterio branding.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Being pedantic, as Scotrail and TfW will continue to exist, it should really be English Rail.

Great English Railways? In a red, white and grey (chainmail) livery - yes please.

No thanks, the nationalism is almost too much to stomach as it is!

It appears that we'll have to bin Scotrail and Transport for Wales too in the interests of fairness.

 

[birchesgreen]

Interesting that it still has the Arterio branding.

Makes sense when they've spent a lot publicising the name.

Looks pretty good on the 701.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The new livery looks fine on that class of train. Also the font looks better applied in white on a coloured background than it does on a white background. Going forward it will be a shame to lose the GWR logo and the green, but not sure how you can keep both as some have suggested

Never liked the green - too drab: the shade used in the "Famous Five" adverts is much lighter - similar to that of the pre-nationalisation Southern Railway.

And green on GWR coaching stock (including units) has no historical basis.

It does look good where it belongs though.

(Pictures show a GWR railcar in chocolate and cream, and a 57/6 in GWR green)

 

[Parallel]

I find the GWR green pretty classy, but I think it suits units with the doors at the ends more than units with doors at the thirds.

I can see why others think the livery is drab. But I think it makes a nice change from the various blue, or white and red liveries over the network.

One livery I’m not a fan of is the shade of purple used on the EMR Auroras. The purple on the rest of their fleet looks reasonable but the shade on their Auroras makes them look cheap and tacky in my opinion.

My favourite livery on the network currently is TransPennine Express. I’ll be sad to see that go in place of GBR branding.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Personally, I’m a little disappointed that the seperate regions haven’t retained some type of difference in livery. Even a differently coloured bodyside could have helped each of them have some individual identity.

 

[Goldfish62]

Personally, I’m a little disappointed that the seperate regions haven’t retained some type of difference in livery. Even a differently coloured bodyside could have helped each of them have some individual identity.

Fortunately there's plenty of time to do things like that once GBR is established and they make their own decisions on branding. It's clear we're not going to get a wholesale rollout of this livery any time soon.

 

[birchesgreen]

If GBR turns out like the last couple of decades of BR then they'll be opening the colour palette books every few months.

 

[Goldfish62]

If GBR turns out like the last couple of decades of BR then they'll be opening the colour palette books every few months.

Unlike the first couple of decades of privatisation when liveries never changed of course....

 

[43096]

Personally, I’m a little disappointed that the seperate regions haven’t retained some type of difference in livery. Even a differently coloured bodyside could have helped each of them have some individual identity.

On the other hand it makes transferring units between areas that bit easier (GTR is an absolute mess currently) and creates one, national identity. Which is rather the point.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Has 387172 re-entered service yet? I can't find anything on RTT but this isn't always accurate

 

[Carlisle]

My favourite livery on the network currently is TransPennine Express. I’ll be sad to see that go in place of GBR branding.

Looks good when clean & shiny but no better than anything else if it’s not.

 

[Murray J]

Has 387172 re-entered service yet? I can't find anything on RTT but this isn't always accurate

GTR isn't actually nationalised until the 31st of May so I doubt it'll enter service again before then, but who knows.

 

[renegademaster]

Personally, I’m a little disappointed that the seperate regions haven’t retained some type of difference in livery. Even a differently coloured bodyside could have helped each of them have some individual identity.

Because trains change regions and TOCs are too cheap to regularly repaint, which leads to the tacky looking multicolour Electrostars that exist in Southernland.

 

[Class 466]

Because trains change regions and TOCs are too cheap to regularly repaint, which leads to the tacky looking multicolour Electrostars that exist in Southernland.

leads me to wonder whether one or more of the ex Southern, now Southeastern 377s are in line for the livery sooner rather than later. Presumably branded “Great British Railways | South Eastern”

Can’t see anything at Northern or TPE getting done for a while yet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's not terrible but I think I'd prefer a more BA tail flowing style.
What I really dislike is Great British Railways, how about British Rail?

GBR is "not BR Mk2" (official DfT statement), nor Network Rail 2.0.
The industry is structured quite differently, and there's a long way to go to the "final" organisation, whatever that is.

 

[jupiter]

The regional branding will be solely so you have an idea of where it might be going? Is that right? Presumably operator specific tickets will no longer exist? I suppose they’ve thought about how easy it will be to change the regional designation?

 

[Tobberz]

So considering we have two confirmed trains, one "Southern" and one "South Western", it looks like they're sticking exactly with the structure of the previous TOCs for now. As mentioned above, it'll be interesting if any combinations happen (either now, or further down the line) -- e.g., Greater Anglia & C2C, maybe Southern & Southeastern, maybe GWR and SWR. If such brand identity combos do happen, I'd have thought it would be more rational to do that now, rather than later.

 

[mmh]

So considering we have two confirmed trains, one "Southern" and one "South Western", it looks like they're sticking exactly with the structure of the previous TOCs for now. As mentioned above, it'll be interesting if any combinations happen (either now, or further down the line) -- e.g., Greater Anglia & C2C, maybe Southern & Southeastern, maybe GWR and SWR. If such brand identity combos do happen, I'd have thought it would be more rational to do that now, rather than later.

Far easier to keep the status quo for now. All the staff and rolling stock will still be at the same depots they are at the moment, and the ticketing system based substantially around the existing brands won't be changing in a hurry.

Liveries are the easy (some would say irrelevant) bit. Stick a sticker on it if you want to change it afterwards.

 

[PGAT]

So considering we have two confirmed trains, one "Southern" and one "South Western", it looks like they're sticking exactly with the structure of the previous TOCs for now. As mentioned above, it'll be interesting if any combinations happen (either now, or further down the line) -- e.g., Greater Anglia & C2C, maybe Southern & Southeastern, maybe GWR and SWR. If such brand identity combos do happen, I'd have thought it would be more rational to do that now, rather than later.

In Geoff Marshall’s video Heidi Alexander confirms they aren’t sticking with the TOCs. Southern and South Western appear to be broader divisions

 

[Mike Machin]

The one aspect of the re-branding which I find very disappointing is the fact that common sense cannot take precedence over due process.

For example, I fully understand that the existing Cross-Country contract doesn’t end until just over 16 months time and Chiltern has a few more months to run, but with these operator’s rolling stock now receiving major updates, refurbishment and re-branding, wouldn’t it be good if these trains could now be rolled-out from their upgrades in the new GBR branding, rather than new liveries specific to their current operators.

Surely the DfT could try and negotiate some sort of agreement to start using the GBR branding now? After all, GBR is yet to be brought into existence and the two trains in the new colours are still legally operated by separate but government-owned stand-alone companies.

 

[zwk500]

So considering we have two confirmed trains, one "Southern" and one "South Western", it looks like they're sticking exactly with the structure of the previous TOCs for now. As mentioned above, it'll be interesting if any combinations happen (either now, or further down the line) -- e.g., Greater Anglia & C2C, maybe Southern & Southeastern, maybe GWR and SWR. If such brand identity combos do happen, I'd have thought it would be more rational to do that now, rather than later.

They're not sticking exactly to the Previous TOCs. They're merging TOCs with the approximate structure of NR's Routes.

The 3 Southern Region TOCs happen to correspond to the 3 NR routes (Kent, Sussex, and Wessex), but in Anglia, GA and C2C have already been confirmed to be merging at a senior level with NR Anglia route leadership:

Greater Anglia, c2c and Network Rail Anglia to merge leadership

It is part of central government's plans to nationalise all of Britain's rail operators.

www.bbc.co.uk

Where TOCs who don't cleanly identify with 1 route will fit is still STC, I think - although indication from the West Mids and GTR Integrated Business Units is that no former TOC will be 'outside' a route.
GTR IBU is apparently to include Sussex Route, West Mids IBU covers WMT & Central route (I.e. Chiltern Main Line).

Next integrated business units planned for later this year

Three units are currently in operation with two more set to be created over the coming months.

www.railmagazine.com

Interestingly Great Northern aren't being split off from GTR into a potential ECML/Eastern IBU, at least not yet.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Seeing it on the 701 makes me confirm how I feel about it.

It’s not amazing at all, but if they just had the stupid flag bit on the end carriages it would be just about ok.

I think it’d be even better if instead of trying to recreate the diagonality of the union jack, they just did an SWT/EMT style swoop at the front with red and white and then the rest of the train in blue. That is if they are completely set on it looking like a gbeebies advert…

 

[CapitalStar378]

They're not sticking exactly to the Previous TOCs. They're merging TOCs with the approximate structure of NR's Routes.

The 3 Southern Region TOCs happen to correspond to the 3 NR routes (Kent, Sussex, and Wessex), but in Anglia, GA and C2C have already been confirmed to be merging at a senior level with NR Anglia route leadership:

Greater Anglia, c2c and Network Rail Anglia to merge leadership

It is part of central government's plans to nationalise all of Britain's rail operators.

www.bbc.co.uk

Where TOCs who don't cleanly identify with 1 route will fit is still STC, I think - although indication from the West Mids and GTR Integrated Business Units is that no former TOC will be 'outside' a route.
GTR IBU is apparently to include Sussex Route, West Mids IBU covers WMT & Central route (I.e. Chiltern Main Line).

Next integrated business units planned for later this year

Three units are currently in operation with two more set to be created over the coming months.

www.railmagazine.com

Interestingly Great Northern aren't being split off from GTR into a potential ECML/Eastern IBU, at least not yet.

It looks probable that the GN inners will become a part of London Overground, no decision made yet though.

 

[RUK]

If Greater Anglia and c2c are merged into Anglia, how will fares between London stations and Southend stations work? There was confusion when they both used to be under National Express.

 

[MotCO]

Seeing it on the 701 makes me confirm how I feel about it.

It’s not amazing at all, but if they just had the stupid flag bit on the end carriages it would be just about ok.

I think it’d be even better if instead of trying to recreate the diagonality of the union jack, they just did an SWT/EMT style swoop at the front with red and white and then the rest of the train in blue. That is if they are completely set on it looking like a gbeebies advert…

I agree. I assume it is possible for some carriages to be turned at some stage, or units to be swapped out, such that the diagonal bit on the carriage will be at the wrong end in the rake, which will look a complete mess. Much better to have the fancy bits at the end of each rake, and the bits in the middle kept simple.

How many carriages are painted each week? How long will it take for all carriages to be so treated, assuming that the repaint programme is not accelerated to show off the new organisation?

 

[Benjwri]

I assume it is possible for some carriages to be turned at some stage, or units to be swapped out, such that the diagonal bit on the carriage will be at the wrong end in the rake, which will look a complete mess.

Very rare on something like a 701, if ever.

 

[Goldfish62]

I agree. I assume it is possible for some carriages to be turned at some stage, or units to be swapped out, such that the diagonal bit on the carriage will be at the wrong end in the rake, which will look a complete mess. Much better to have the fancy bits at the end of each rake, and the bits in the middle kept simple.

How many carriages are painted each week? How long will it take for all carriages to be so treated, assuming that the repaint programme is not accelerated to show off the new organisation?

I don't recall any multiple units of any sort ever having had coaches turned around within the formation. Closest I can think of is some HST restaurant-buffets many years ago. I agree though about keeping the red and white fussy bits confined to the end coaches.

There's only one Class 701 being done. The rest will have to wait until they're due a repaint, which could be some years away. By then this particular GBR livery may be no more anyway!

 

[AlistairCowell]

It's going to be a long while before InterCity and all regional trains in England are repainted.

 

[Farigiraf]

Will devolved (or to be devolved) operations like Merseyrail, WMR and the Bee Network maintain their local liveries?
What'll happen if e.g. Bristol or Leeds suddenly decides it wants local branding for suburban commuter lines but only in a few years' time, after the trains have been reliveried?
I'm guessing not even the higher-ups at shadow GBR know yet, but it's food for thought.

What about Great Northern's 717s - if these transfer to TfL, presumably they won't be reliveried?