CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jacob Porrett]

The Diagrams have changed so that all TfW Trains at Birmingham International either Start or Finish on the Cambrian. i.e Train from North Wales arrives at BHI and then forms a Train to Aberystwyth, or a Train from the Cambrian Arrives at BHI and then forms a Train to North Wales.

So no 197s at the moment then until we get the 197s on the Cambrian?

 

[tfw756rider]

So no 197s at the moment then until we get the 197s on the Cambrian?

Not in the day, no. Currently just evening/night services, and more on Sundays than Monday-Saturday.

Monday-Saturday:

Realtime Trains | 1G76 2011 Llandudno to Birmingham New Street | 19/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 1G76 2011 departure from Llandudno to Birmingham New Street on 19/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Sundays:

Realtime Trains | 1I24 1938 Chester to Birmingham International | 17/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 1I24 1938 departure from Chester to Birmingham International on 17/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1I26 1825 Holyhead to Birmingham International | 17/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 1I26 1825 departure from Holyhead to Birmingham International on 17/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1J35 2211 Birmingham International to Shrewsbury | 17/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 1J35 2211 departure from Birmingham International to Shrewsbury on 17/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1D33 2241 Birmingham International to Chester | 17/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 1D33 2241 departure from Birmingham International to Chester on 17/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[wythallpaul]

So no 197s at the moment then until we get the 197s on the Cambrian?

Nothing Booked. But that doesn't mean that a Short Term Substitution couldn't Happen. They are well used to doing Train Swaps at Shrewsbury (if a Unit from BHI Cannot go onto the Cambrian) from back when they used to be forced to use Cl150 & Cl153. i.e a Train from North Wales to BHI has a Problem which means a Set Swap at Chester - Chester may only have Cl197's Available. I was at Shrewsbury Yesterday & the only Unit on the Carriage Sidings was 197024. With the AT Units going on & Off between Turns on the HOWL.

 

[Harpo]

So no 197s at the moment then until we get the 197s on the Cambrian?

One or two 197 workings late Sunday evenings only at International for now as I understand it.

 

[158822]

No need to have 197s running to Birmingham now 158s are freed up as a result of most services not going to Holyhead anymore apart from 1I10 and 1D16.

 

[Caaardiff]

How come there are no 197s on the Birmingham International runs anymore? It's just 158s now.

The 197's put onto North Wales - Birmingham diagrams were as a result of being 2 158's down after Talerddig. Birmingham services have always gone as far as Holyhead but under the new timetable they now only go as far as Llandudno Junction, meaning a saving of 2 units with the shorter distance which means they can go back to all 158's.
No doubt 197's will step in to cover 158's at some point, but aside from the odd weekend working there are no booked 197's.

The Diagrams have changed so that all TfW Trains at Birmingham International either Start or Finish on the Cambrian. i.e Train from North Wales arrives at BHI and then forms a Train to Aberystwyth, or a Train from the Cambrian Arrives at BHI and then forms a Train to North Wales.

The diagrams have always worked like that. Holyhead - Birmingham will work Birmingham - Cambrian and vice versa.

 

[wythallpaul]

No need to have 197s running to Birmingham now 158s are freed up as a result of most services not going to Holyhead anymore apart from 1I10 and 1D16.

This Remains to be seen. I expect to see a lot of BHI Services through the Summer formed of a Single Cl158 when 2 Carriages is not really Enough for the Amount of Holidaymakers, Hikers & Day trippers etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2026 ==

The 197's put onto North Wales - Birmingham diagrams were as a result of being 2 158's down after Talerddig. Birmingham services have always gone as far as Holyhead but under the new timetable they now only go as far as Llandudno Junction, meaning a saving of 2 units with the shorter distance which means they can go back to all 158's.
No doubt 197's will step in to cover 158's at some point, but aside from the odd weekend working there are no booked 197's.


The diagrams have always worked like that. Holyhead - Birmingham will work Birmingham - Cambrian and vice versa.

Didn't the Diagram that Regularly Produced Cl197 in Recent Months go Holyhead to BHI, BHI to Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury to BHI, BHI to Holyhead - Nothing on the Cambrian?
This has now Changed.

 

[158822]

@wythallpaul that diagram you speak of was split from the rest causing an inconvenience for anyone who had to swap trains at Shrewsbury and was done because of the 158 shortage after Talerddig.

 

[wythallpaul]

@wythallpaul that diagram you speak of was split from the rest causing an inconvenience for anyone who had to swap trains at Shrewsbury and was done because of the 158 shortage after Talerddig.

Yes Agreed, but that Diagram was the only one that consistently sent Cl197 to BHI. Now that Diagram has Reverted back to a North Wales to BHI Service onto a BHI to Cambrian Service that has effectively finished the Cl197's to BHI until the Cambrian Proper Starts Later this Year.

 

[Caaardiff]

This Remains to be seen. I expect to see a lot of BHI Services through the Summer formed of a Single Cl158 when 2 Carriages is not really Enough for the Amount of Holidaymakers, Hikers & Day trippers etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2026 ==


Didn't the Diagram that Regularly Produced Cl197 in Recent Months go Holyhead to BHI, BHI to Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury to BHI, BHI to Holyhead - Nothing on the Cambrian?
This has now Changed.

Yes, sorry, misunderstood your post. The original diagrams as all 158s would arrive at Birmingham from one and depart to the other.

 

[Gordonman]

197037 came off maintenance at Chester TMD last night working 5T37 Chester TMD - Shrewsbury prior to working the 05.15 Shrewsbury - Fishguard Harbour this morning.At first glance,nothing unusual in that but the routing of 5T37 was Chester TMD - Holyhead - Chester - Shrewsbury!!Presume the Chester TMD - Holyhead - Chester section was classed as a test run unless anyone knows any different.

 

[wythallpaul]

197037 came off maintenance at Chester TMD last night working 5T37 Chester TMD - Shrewsbury prior to working the 05.15 Shrewsbury - Fishguard Harbour this morning.At first glance,nothing unusual in that but the routing of 5T37 was Chester TMD - Holyhead - Chester - Shrewsbury!!Presume the Chester TMD - Holyhead - Chester section was classed as a test run unless anyone knows any different.

That's very Interesting. Looking at (on RTT) 1V88, it Worked Together with 197017 as a Pair. Certainly Covered all the bases in Making sure 197037 had a Smooth Re-introduction to the Front Line. 1V88 on Both Monday (18th) & Tuesday (19th) was a Single 2 Car Cl197.

Clarification:- 1V88 05.15 Shrewsbury (SHR) to Fishguard Harbour (FGH).

 

[Jez]

The Diagrams have changed so that all TfW Trains at Birmingham International either Start or Finish on the Cambrian. i.e Train from North Wales arrives at BHI and then forms a Train to Aberystwyth, or a Train from the Cambrian Arrives at BHI and then forms a Train to North Wales.

They also need to free up train for the extra North Wales Coast services so 2 197s have been taken from the Birminghams and 2 from Maesteg-Ebbw Vale.

 

[Chorley Cake]

Does anybody know where 022, 031 & 041 are

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There is also a Monday to Friday working to New Street which is 20:10 Llandudno to New Street and empty back to Shrewsbury.

So from Llandudno Jn there is a 2021 TfW 197 (Llandudno-New St, via Shrewsbury), arr 2335.
And then a 2037 Avanti 805 (Holyhead-New St, via Crewe) arr 2251 (ie overtaking the TfW).
Bit of unnecessary duplication there, I think.

 

[CaergwrleKen]

So from Llandudno Jn there is a 2021 TfW 197 (Llandudno-New St, via Shrewsbury), arr 2335.
And then a 2037 Avanti 805 (Holyhead-New St, via Crewe) arr 2251 (ie overtaking the TfW).
Bit of unnecessary duplication there, I think.

The Virgin/Avanti train to Birmingham in the evening has run for years 1G00 as has ATW TFW 1G76 when it started at Holyhead it would be followed by the Voyager, it’s the only Avanti working of the day to Birmingham and i think it’s basically only to get the unit back to the depot. Same as the morning train opposite direction.

 

[Gordonman]

Long term stopped 197126 worked 5T26 Chester TMD - Chester TMD test run this morning.Then straight into service currently working 1K09 Wrexham - Crewe

 

[Jez]

There must be quite a shortage of 197s today as 2 out of 3 Cheltenhams are a 150 and an AT set and 3 out of 4 Maesteg to Ebbw are Sprinters with just the remaining diagram a 3 car 197.

Good to hear that 197126 and 197045 are back in service.

 

[Caaardiff]

There must be quite a shortage of 197s today as 2 out of 3 Cheltenhams are a 150 and an AT set and 3 out of 4 Maesteg to Ebbw are Sprinters with just the remaining diagram a 3 car 197.

Good to hear that 197126 and 197045 are back in service.

Cheltenham and Maesteg to Ebbw Vale both have a 150 diagram on each since the timetable change.

 

[Jez]

Cheltenham and Maesteg to Ebbw Vale both have a 150 diagram on each since the timetable change.

I've got the diagrams so I'm aware but today there are Sprinters on diagrams that should be booked 197 so there must be a shortage ?

 

[trainspotter4]

Cheltenham and Maesteg to Ebbw Vale both have a 150 diagram on each since the timetable change.

Do you know which specific diagrams this is? Thank you!

 

[Jez]

Do you know which specific diagrams this is? Thank you!

The diagrams show it is the 0908 from Maesteg and every 4 hours after booked for a pair of 150s. Cant see any on Cheltenham. The other 3 Maesteg diagrams are booked for 3 car 197s to my surprise.

Today there seemed to be a few short formed services and short notice swapping around with the 197s. I went to Fishguard today (I will probably write a report on that in another thread to avoid this going off topic) and stopped off in Carmarthen on the return journey and 197003 had issues and the service it was meant to run to Cardiff was cancelled. I noticed that two of the Swansea-Manchester (1454 and 1657) ran as 2 cars to Cardiff and the 3 car was added there so for whatever reason the 3 car wasnt there in Swansea to attach.

I was lucky my train from Carmarthen was 3 car vice 2 car (1656), I did notice it was extremely warm in the train and asked the Conductor when he checked my ticket about the air con, he said they couldnt change it but it might be worth moving to another carriage. I moved from the end carriage to the middle and it was much better there.

 

[vicbury]

How are the 197s holding up in the heat this year? Have to say that 197025 was lovely in 32° this evening. Very busy onboard but comfortably cool, not cold, and plenty of airflow without being draughty. Hopefully they've got on top of all the previous air con issues now!

 

[Techniquest]

197012 was like a furnace on Monday, its diagram got cancelled at lunchtime as a result. No idea if anything did replace it or not on the Borderlands line, I saw a 230 in Wrexham which was making a major racket so it’s assumed the fans were going full power on it. Never heard such a noisy 230, especially considering it was going downhill into Wrexham and a gentle stroll back from Central to General when I saw it!

 

[Floul1]

Currently on a somewhat warm 197042, where the air conditioning is only working in 1 of the 2 carriages. Felt a small blast of cold air from the vents as we pulled out of Crewe but out of luck otherwise

 

[Jez]

I was on a 197 last Friday and it was extremely warm, i asked the conductor and he said they werent allowed to touch the air conditioning and it was meant to be a few degrees lower than the outside temperature! Not great in a 31 degree heatwave! Although to be fair it wasnt as hot as that last Friday.

In the end I decided to move to the middle carriage to see if it was cooler in there and indeed it was. It might be worth trying to move to a different part of the train.

 

[mmh]

I was on a 197 last Friday and it was extremely warm, i asked the conductor and he said they werent allowed to touch the air conditioning and it was meant to be a few degrees lower than the outside temperature! Not great in a 31 degree heatwave! Although to be fair it wasnt as hot as that last Friday.

Staff saying that has been reported before on here. I used two 197s at the hottest part of the day yesterday and both were pleasantly cool, so my assumption is there's a guard(s) out there talking nonsense.

I've also been on plenty of 197s which have been far too hot. I'd bet on it just being "it's a bit rubbish and unreliable" - they are 197s after all.

I don't understand why aircon on trains is so fraught, e.g. in my experience the Electrostar classes had perfect aircon nearly 30 years ago.

 

[vicbury]

Staff saying that has been reported before on here. I used two 197s at the hottest part of the day yesterday and both were pleasantly cool, so my assumption is there's a guard(s) out there talking nonsense.

I've also been on plenty of 197s which have been far too hot. I'd bet on it just being "it's a bit rubbish and unreliable" - they are 197s after all.

I don't understand why aircon on trains is so fraught, e.g. in my experience the Electrostar classes had perfect aircon nearly 30 years ago.

I don't buy that either. It was at least 10° cooler on 197025 than it was outside. The difference in air temperature when the doors opened at stations was huge. The Turbostars used by CrossCountry around here also have brilliant air conditioning, although the heating can get a bit warm in the winter.

 

[TheSmiths82]

Do the 197's suffer from engine issues? I will do a detailed trip report but I have spent a lot of time on 197's on my trip to Wales and managing to clock over two hours worth of delays (I a record for me!). On two different 197's I went on the crew was having difficulties with one of the engines. On Tuesday engine problems meant the train managed to clock up a 58 minute delay! Today coming back from Cardiff the already slightly delayed service was delayed by another 18 minutes due to engine problems. The train was really struggling to the climb up any hills.
It was a 5 coach set (2 + 3) and most of the toilets were not working which meant I had an opportunity to walk through the entire length of the train, I noticed that was end of the train was much cooler than the other. That said on Monday the MK4 set I went had a total air-conditioning failure in one of the coaches.

 

[BenBracken]

Is this a new addition to the Sunday service in the May timetable? Or has it been there for a while? Always been surprised more services don’t split at Whitland and head down different branches.