Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[scosutsut]

The chassis version is 13.4m, according to the specifications on Volvo's website:

Specifications

Length, width, height of the Volvo B8L Double Decker bus. Engine specifications, battery, charging, breaks, suspension and more.

www.volvobuses.com

That just further firms up my belief then, these will be the same as the first batch. If some are for LCB/ECB it would be easy to program the on board announcements for particular stops that are unsuitable for the centre door to include "exit via the front door only" or words to that effect.

Looking forward to seeing the E400EV Volvo BZL

Agreed, will the Volvo badges be the only change I wonder?

Might be wrong but is this the first time Lothian Country have had a brand new bus order instead of old Lothian stock?

I believe so, only subsidiary never to have had brand new (unless you include Eve in time of Lothian ownership.)

 

[Siemens Trains]

That just further firms up my belief then, these will be the same as the first batch. If some are for LCB/ECB it would be easy to program the on board announcements for particular stops that are unsuitable for the centre door to include "exit via the front door only" or words to that effect.

Might be easy to program an announcement.

But delivering such a message consistently at the appropriate time and achieving sufficient passenger comprehension/compliance are very unlikely.

 

[Lothian285]

Might be wrong but is this the first time Lothian Country have had a brand new bus order instead of old Lothian stock?

There was the 8 Green Arrow Express coaches in 2019.

 

[NorthClyde320]

Could someone who is better in the know do a list in date order of the new buses on order, how many and when expected for delivery? Many thanks.

 

[cam22]

There was the 8 Green Arrow Express coaches in 2019.

Oh aye forgot about them. Suppose I meant regular buses.

 

[Lx008]

Could someone who is better in the know do a list in date order of the new buses on order, how many and when expected for delivery? Many thanks.

As far as has been said on here:

Previously Known:
9x Wright Kite Electroliner - Summer 2026

Recent Leaked order:
60x Volvo B8L ADL E400XLB - 2027/28 (split Airlink / ECB / Country)
20x Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora - 2027/28 (allocation and length unclear)

ScotZEB3 Order
40x Volvo BZL ADL Double Deck (presumed E400ev derivative) - Unknown (presumed late 26-28)
20x Wright Streetdeck Electroliner (presumed 2 axle) - Unknown (presumed late 26-28)

 

[aswilliamsuk]

The diesel order has been confirmed in an article on Route-One - all 60 B8L/E400XLBs will be 12.8m and single-door.

But Dylan observes that in such a mixed operation, there is not yet a natural pathway to a fully zero-emission fleet. More diesel buses will join in the meantime, all on Volvo chassis. It is anticipated that Alexander Dennis will complete 60 further tri-axle B8Ls with its Enviro400XLB double-deck product, while 20 B8RLEs with MCV Evora single-deck bodies are due.

The majority of those will be for the East Coast Buses and Lothian Country operations, although some of the Enviro400XLBs are for the Airlink 100 between Edinburgh city centre and the airport. At 12.8m, all 60 will be shorter than the 13.4m examples delivered from 2019, and have one door instead of two.

Such intended deployments reflect the capabilities of differing driveline technologies. The Airlink 100 runs 24/7, and Lothian is considering how to electrify it. At East Coast Buses, some duties cover 300 miles per day. Nevertheless, it is likely that the pending B8 models will be Lothian’s last new diesel buses.

Move towards zero-emission fleet is a nuanced one for Lothian - routeone

Lothian Buses is working towards a fully zero-emission bus fleet, but its breadth of operating conditions demand nuance, the firm says.

www.route-one.net

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The diesel order has been confirmed in an article on Route-One - all 60 B8L/E400XLBs will be 12.8m and single-door.

Move towards zero-emission fleet is a nuanced one for Lothian - routeone

Lothian Buses is working towards a fully zero-emission bus fleet, but its breadth of operating conditions demand nuance, the firm says.

www.route-one.net

As expected. Thanks for confirming.

 

[scosutsut]

The diesel order has been confirmed in an article on Route-One - all 60 B8L/E400XLBs will be 12.8m and single-door.

Move towards zero-emission fleet is a nuanced one for Lothian - routeone

Lothian Buses is working towards a fully zero-emission bus fleet, but its breadth of operating conditions demand nuance, the firm says.

www.route-one.net

Thanks that puts a good deal of speculation to rest, my own included!

 

[computerSaysNo]

When will the diversions for the Marathons this coming weekend be published? I would have expected them to be available last week but they still don't seem to be up on the Service Updates page (I know there is a news article about the Marathons but it just says "diversion information will be published nearer the time).
Also how much disruption usually occurs on the Saturday?
Thanks.

 

[Metal Mickey]

I’m hearing
20 new Volvo B8RLE Evora
60 new Volvo B8L XLB split between Airlink, LothianCountry and East Coast. All due from early 2027/28

Not a hope in hell that East Coast Buses can justify having XLBs in their fleet and an entire Lothian Country network refresh should take priority over new buses.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Not a hope in hell that East Coast Buses can justify having XLBs in their fleet and an entire Lothian Country network refresh should take priority over new buses.

Thing is and I’m not criticising anyone, but people are referring these like they are the ‘XLBs’ that are in the city fleet. These aren’t. They may have bigger seats and will likely have two wheelchair spaces which dramatically reduces the capacity away from a high density 100 seat bus. These will be more like a bespoke product for each of the environments they will be used on. All 3 batches will probably have minor differences, but maintain the same principle.

Remember, the B8L is designed for work like this. The B5TL no longer exists. A few operators have opted for the B8L to carry out work like this, stuff with high mileage/longer distance rotas.

Mechanically, these are not really any different to the current ones, but they will be quite different in terms of the end product compared to the city examples.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Not a hope in hell that East Coast Buses can justify having XLBs in their fleet and an entire Lothian Country network refresh should take priority over new buses.

As if both can’t happen at the same time?

 

[NorthClyde320]

As far as has been said on here:

Previously Known:
9x Wright Kite Electroliner - Summer 2026

Recent Leaked order:
60x Volvo B8L ADL E400XLB - 2027/28 (split Airlink / ECB / Country)
20x Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora - 2027/28 (allocation and length unclear)

ScotZEB3 Order
40x Volvo BZL ADL Double Deck (presumed E400ev derivative) - Unknown (presumed late 26-28)
20x Wright Streetdeck Electroliner (presumed 2 axle) - Unknown (presumed late 26-28)

Many thanks for this.

I find the 9 new GB Kites to be an odd number for Lothian as they usually deal in equal type blocks i.e. 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 etc so I would have thought 10 would be a better number? I'm aware that service 36 uses 7 buses + 2 at peaks but there is currently 11 7900's at Central for the 36 and I can't see them keeping 2 so presumably BZL''s or whatever is spare will be used for cover if need be?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I find the 9 new GB Kites to be an odd number for Lothian as they usually deal in equal type blocks i.e. 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 etc so I would have thought 10 would be a better number? I'm aware that service 36 uses 7 buses + 2 at peaks but there is currently 11 7900's at Central for the 36 and I can't see them keeping 2 so presumably BZL''s or whatever is spare will be used for cover if need be?

I think as you say the plan will be that 7 of the 9 will be the off peak ones. Then the 2 left plus probably 2-3 other vehicles will be the spare/peak buses. Basically off peak the 36 will be entirely electric, with the peak extra buses not necessarily being electric.

My expectation is that 31-41 will all depart Central. The decker allocation can probably lose a couple as well as that’s what’s putting deckers on the 36 all the time now. Are the 4 Eclipse2’s at Longstone the obvious choice to make it 13 that way?

 

[overthewater]

As if both can’t happen at the same time?

Again it boils down to the fact can they justify brand new stock AND improved frequency on certain routes, they have to balance the books. Going by the last few years that why a good number of us are doubtful that is possible.

However I still think No43 and X27/28 will get the stock and they will be left at the 20min freq moving forwards thus making it possible for route 72 to get pushed up to every 30mins and a new 75 with the older stock.


Does anyone know where the current Airlink stock will end up? Route 26? Route 33?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Does anyone know where the current Airlink stock will end up? Route 26? Route 33?

My expectation is that they will be used on the 37. The 47 would then likely be split between MMC’s and XLB’s.

I still think the 26 is getting these 40 Electric ADL BZL’s.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Apologies if I've missed it, but do we know the fleet numbers of the new Scania coaches?

 

[NorthClyde320]

I’m hearing
20 new Volvo B8RLE Evora
60 new Volvo B8L XLB split between Airlink, LothianCountry and East Coast. All due from early 2027/28

Just my guess but 15 for Airlink, 15 for East Coast (113 & 124) and 30 for Country (X18/27/28 & 43). It would mean all of the main City services are XLB operated boosting the capacity. I don't"t see the X4 justifying them tbh.

 

[goldisgood]

I still think the 26 is getting these 40 Electric ADL BZL’s.

The Route One article linked above confirms these and the Streetdecks are intended for Longstone.

 

[Bus9120UK]

My expectation is that they will be used on the 37. The 47 would then likely be split between MMC’s and XLB’s.

I still think the 26 is getting these 40 Electric ADL BZL’s.

The RouteOne article above says that all 60 new electric vehicles are planned for Longstone:

All 60 buses are set for Longstone, where work on power supply is scheduled. That will open the door to a possible 200-bus capacity for battery-electric in the long-term, capturing its full allocation.

edit - posted at exactly the same time as goldisgood!

 

[Resuwen]

As expected. Thanks for confirming.

Sad news.

Were I in charge at Lothian all vehicles would be dual door.

At one time we even had dual door Leylands National and Lynx.

It buggers belief that Edinburgh doesn't have this as standard - it's de regeur in London, Dublin and even bloody Belfast!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The Route One article linked above confirms these and the Streetdecks are intended for Longstone.

The RouteOne article above says the plan is that all 60 new electric vehicles are planned for Longstone:


edit - posted at exactly the same time as goldisgood!

Thanks both. I naively assumed the article was behind a paywall and therefore didn’t read it! An interesting article.

Interesting to see how the chargers will be installed at Longstone. Gantry’s needed?

Could the 20 Electroliners be for the 17 and 18? Numbers feel about right and these would be ideal capacity wise.

The 40 BZL’s on the other hand could be for anything. Just depends if they intend to convert ever convert the 30 or not, which as we enter a fully electric era could not work with the current electric single deck offering.

Sad news.

Were I in charge at Lothian all vehicles would be dual door.

At one time we even had dual door Leylands National and Lynx.

It buggers belief that Edinburgh doesn't have this as standard - it's de regeur in London, Dublin and even bloody Belfast!

I’m all for a dual door city fleet, but the Airlink is absolutely pointless being dual door as there are no stops where high volumes of people are boarding/alighting at the same time. Then there’s ECB and LC which have logistical issues when in more rural areas.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Personally I don't think East Coast and Lothian Country will be getting tri-axles.
The wording in the article is:

"60 tri-axle Enviro400XLB double-decks, [and] 20 B8RLE with single-deck bodies".

"The majority of those will be for the East Coast and Lothian Country operations, although some of the Enviro400XLBs are for the Airlink 100" (my bold).

The word "those" I would interpret as referring to the most recent bus mentioned, which was the single-decks at the end of the previous paragraph. This is furthered by the mention of the "Enviro400XLB" in the middle of that sentence, not at the start, so I would interpret everything before the mention of "Enviro400XLB" as referring to something else, and everything after the mention of "Enviro400XLB" as referring to the XLB.

Personally I don't think the B8s currently at East Coast are in need of replacement just yet. Discounting those, there are only five other single decks at East Coast which could be replaced, the short 191, 192 & 193 used on the 121 & 123 (and 120 on Sundays only), and 195 & 196 (used usually only on the 120). I'm unsure if the Monday to Saturday loadings on the 120 are low enough to facilitate use of a short bus like 191-193 but if they are then I can see those five being replaced with five short-length B8s for fleet standardisation.
Therefore to meet the definition of "majority [of single-decks] will be for East Coast and Lothian Country" at least six and at most 14 would need to be for Country. I have no idea which Country routes are suitable for single deck operation but is it possible that the 72, 73 and 74 would go up to every half hour but, along with the 70 and 71, go down to single-decks?

As for the XLBs - with their slightly shorter length I wouldn't be surprised if 20 were allocated to Airlink instead of 15. That leaves 40. They could be put on the 26 which would release about 30 Gemini 3s to go to East Coast and Country to allow them to remove their remaining B9s. That would leave 10 new XLBs left over.
Alternatively they could go somewhere else, I'm not sure where else would need them.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Personally I don't think East Coast and Lothian Country will be getting tri-axles.
The wording in the article is:

"60 tri-axle Enviro400XLB double-decks, [and] 20 B8RLE with single-deck bodies".

"The majority of those will be for the East Coast and Lothian Country operations, although some of the Enviro400XLBs are for the Airlink 100" (my bold).

The word "those" I would interpret as referring to the most recent bus mentioned, which was the single-decks at the end of the previous paragraph. This is furthered by the mention of the "Enviro400XLB" in the middle of that sentence, not at the start, so I would interpret everything before the mention of "Enviro400XLB" as referring to something else, and everything after the mention of "Enviro400XLB" as referring to the XLB.

Personally I don't think the B8s currently at East Coast are in need of replacement just yet. Discounting those, there are only five other single decks at East Coast which could be replaced, the short 191, 192 & 193 used on the 121 & 123 (and 120 on Sundays only), and 195 & 196 (used usually only on the 120). I'm unsure if the Monday to Saturday loadings on the 120 are low enough to facilitate use of a short bus like 191-193 but if they are then I can see those five being replaced with five short-length B8s for fleet standardisation.
Therefore to meet the definition of "majority [of single-decks] will be for East Coast and Lothian Country" at least six and at most 14 would need to be for Country. I have no idea which Country routes are suitable for single deck operation but is it possible that the 72, 73 and 74 would go up to every half hour but, along with the 70 and 71, go down to single-decks?

As for the XLBs - with their slightly shorter length I wouldn't be surprised if 20 were allocated to Airlink instead of 15. That leaves 40. They could be put on the 26 which would release about 30 Gemini 3s to go to East Coast and Country to allow them to remove their remaining B9s. That would leave 10 new XLBs left over.
Alternatively they could go somewhere else, I'm not sure where else would need them.

I appreciate your thoughts but to be honest, you are overthinking.

Here is what that section of the article intends to say:
Of the 80 vehicles ordered, most will be for East Coast buses and Lothian Country. However, some of the Enviro 400 XLBs will be for Airlink. At no point is there any suggestion or implication that any of these orders will be for regular Lothian services.

It does suggest the eVoRa's will be for East Coast buses which was the expectation. If they had not specified that it was specifically Enviro 400 XLBs for Airlink then it would suggest there could be eVoRas due for Airlink which is obviously not the case. That's all there is to it.

I did see a snippet of the email sent to staff on a Facebook reply and it did say the XLBs are specifically to assist with Lothian Country, East Coast buses and Airlink operations.

The point is that you want new diesel buses at East Coast buses and Lothian Country to give them as much time as possible before they have to convert to zero emission. The current options on the market are not good enough.
The B8L is the last suitable diesel decker available for Lothian.

 

[Belfastmarty]

It buggers belief that Edinburgh doesn't have this as standard - it's de regeur in London, Dublin and even bloody Belfast!

OT, but the ones in Belfast don't really operate as dual door buses. Having bought 2 door buses for the first time in many years it was discovered many of the stops are no longer suitable for 2 door operation, with the exit door depositing folk in to parked cars, road junctions etc. The 2nd door is really only used for offloading in the City Centre terminus stops.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Personally I don't think East Coast and Lothian Country will be getting tri-axles.
The wording in the article is:

"60 tri-axle Enviro400XLB double-decks, [and] 20 B8RLE with single-deck bodies".

"The majority of those will be for the East Coast and Lothian Country operations, although some of the Enviro400XLBs are for the Airlink 100" (my bold).

The word "those" I would interpret as referring to the most recent bus mentioned, which was the single-decks at the end of the previous paragraph. This is furthered by the mention of the "Enviro400XLB" in the middle of that sentence, not at the start, so I would interpret everything before the mention of "Enviro400XLB" as referring to something else, and everything after the mention of "Enviro400XLB" as referring to the XLB.

Personally I don't think the B8s currently at East Coast are in need of replacement just yet. Discounting those, there are only five other single decks at East Coast which could be replaced, the short 191, 192 & 193 used on the 121 & 123 (and 120 on Sundays only), and 195 & 196 (used usually only on the 120). I'm unsure if the Monday to Saturday loadings on the 120 are low enough to facilitate use of a short bus like 191-193 but if they are then I can see those five being replaced with five short-length B8s for fleet standardisation.
Therefore to meet the definition of "majority [of single-decks] will be for East Coast and Lothian Country" at least six and at most 14 would need to be for Country. I have no idea which Country routes are suitable for single deck operation but is it possible that the 72, 73 and 74 would go up to every half hour but, along with the 70 and 71, go down to single-decks?

As for the XLBs - with their slightly shorter length I wouldn't be surprised if 20 were allocated to Airlink instead of 15. That leaves 40. They could be put on the 26 which would release about 30 Gemini 3s to go to East Coast and Country to allow them to remove their remaining B9s. That would leave 10 new XLBs left over.
Alternatively they could go somewhere else, I'm not sure where else would need them.

The shorter length will be offset by the removal of the middle door as flipdowns can be put in the wheelchair space (and extra one if that happens)

 

[NorthEastern]

Sad news.

Were I in charge at Lothian all vehicles would be dual door.

At one time we even had dual door Leylands National and Lynx.

It buggers belief that Edinburgh doesn't have this as standard - it's de regeur in London, Dublin and even bloody Belfast!

Agreed. As a passenger I just find it strange because the ex-Londons and the existing XLBs seem /seemed to perform efficiently.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2026 ==

The article mentions opportunity charging. Is that where a bus can charge up at a terminus during layover for example? Would that be an option for Lothian: to charge up during the day using a pantograph or whatever, at the airport stop?

 

[EMU303]

Opportunity Charging presumably has a dependency on buses not running late? With little or no time to recharge at a terminus or risk gaps in frequency - or having to add buses and therefore higher operating costs…Seems a big dependency in a congested city like Edinburgh.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Weren’t Lothian planning on having a batch of 25 vehicles for the 30 that did just that? It never happened, but the opportunity chargers were to be installed at its then termini of Clovenstone and Musselburgh Grammar. Granted that was at least 10 years ago now, but the traffic was much the same problem then and one of a few reasons why it didn’t happen.