• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Anytime Day Single with Senior Rail Card

Geoff_K

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2021
Messages
76
Location
Crayford
Hi,

I have an Anytime Day Single e-ticket, bought with a Senior Rail Card, for travel from Milton Keynes Central to Boundary Zone 6.

What is the earliest train that I can catch from Milton Keynes Central to London Euston on a Monday morning.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
16,704
Location
UK
What ticket to you have for travel within the London Zones?
 

Geoff_K

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2021
Messages
76
Location
Crayford
I have a 60+ Oyster.

My plan is to get an LNWR train that starts at Milton Keynes to avoid the stress of finding a seat of finding a seat/finding someone in my seat on a train that is just stopping there.

I don't know what time I shall be arriving at Milton Keynes Central, other than it will be after the time the Senior Rail Card is valid, & I bought the Anytime ticket to give me the greatest flexibility.

I'm now wondering if I could have bought a cheaper ticket, to go with the rail card, that would have given me the same flexibility?

I am travelling from Euston to Milton Keynes Central on the previous Friday, & have also bought an Anytime Day single e-ticket for that journey, for BZ6 to Milton Keynes Central, again with the intention of getting an LNWR train.

Given my trip as a whole, Euston to Milton Keynes on the Friday afternoon, & returning on the following Monday, is it a waste of money to have bought the Anytime e-tickets?

Could I cancel the two e-tickets, & buy something just as flexible, but cheaper? Would there be a cost involved, which might eat up any saving made by changing my current tickets?
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,096
Location
Redcar
Given my trip as a whole, Euston to Milton Keynes on the Friday afternoon, & returning on the following Monday, is it a waste of money to have bought the Anytime e-tickets?
You could have bought a Boundary Zone 6 - Milton Keynes Off-Peak Return (out/rtn valid after 0930, no afternoon restrictions) for £31.20 which I guess would save a few pennies over two Anytime Singles at £16.80 each. But there's not much in it!
 

CyrusWuff

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
5,460
Location
London
Hi,

I have an Anytime Day Single e-ticket, bought with a Senior Rail Card, for travel from Milton Keynes Central to Boundary Zone 6.

What is the earliest train that I can catch from Milton Keynes Central to London Euston on a Monday morning.
The 0900 or 0935 London Northwestern services, due into Euston at 1007 and 1017 respectively.

For journeys wholly within the Network Railcard area, Senior Railcard (and Friends & Family Railcard) discounted tickets aren't valid until the Off-Peak ticket becomes valid.

In this case, that's trains due to arrive into London from 1000.
 

Geoff_K

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2021
Messages
76
Location
Crayford
What is meant by the Network Railcard Area?

So I can get any train that starts from Milton Keynes Central to Euston with my Anytime Day Single e-ticket, bought with a Senior Rail Card, as long as it due to arrive after 10am.

Would this also be the case for a GWR train starting at Cardiff, & due to arrive into Paddington after 10am?

I was thinking that time of departure from Milton Keynes Central was the critical factor, rather than the time of arrival into Euston.
 

CyrusWuff

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
5,460
Location
London
What is meant by the Network Railcard Area?
The shaded area shown in the map linked from this page.

For Euston, that covers as far as Wolverton on the main line and Long Buckby on the Northampton Loop.
So I can get any train that starts from Milton Keynes Central to Euston with my Anytime Day Single e-ticket, bought with a Senior Rail Card, as long as it due to arrive after 10am.
Not quite. You can't use Avanti services as a 60+ Oyster isn't valid on them, even in conjunction with a ticket to/from Boundary Zone 6. A Freedom Pass is valid on Avanti, however.
Would this also be the case for a GWR train starting at Cardiff, & due to arrive into Paddington after 10am?
The additional restriction only applies to journeys wholly within the Network Railcard area. As Cardiff is outside, you can use a Senior Railcard at any time.
I was thinking that time of departure from Milton Keynes Central was the critical factor, rather than the time of arrival into Euston.
As a general rule of thumb, for journeys heading towards London the restriction is based on the arrival time. For journeys heading away from, or across, London it's based on the departure time.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
16,704
Location
UK
I have a 60+ Oyster.

My plan is to get an LNWR train that starts at Milton Keynes to avoid the stress of finding a seat of finding a seat/finding someone in my seat on a train that is just stopping there.

I don't know what time I shall be arriving at Milton Keynes Central, other than it will be after the time the Senior Rail Card is valid, & I bought the Anytime ticket to give me the greatest flexibility.

I'm now wondering if I could have bought a cheaper ticket, to go with the rail card, that would have given me the same flexibility?
Since you want to take the Milton Keynes stoppers which all call at Bletchley, and since you are returning the next day, you would be better off splitting at Bletchley. This is because Bletchley is within the 'single leg pricing' Project Oval PAYG area, so a single costs half of the equivalent Day Return, whereas the period/open return you could get to Milton Keynes is more expensive than a Day Return.

Splitting at Bletchley would reduce the cost to £11.85 each way. The only thing worth noting is that a Harrow & Wealdstone - Bletchley Off-Peak ticket is a bit more restrictive - you can't depart before 09:30 in either direction, and heading out of London you can't depart between 16:00 and 19:00. If you'll be travelling between those times, a through ticket to/from Milton Keynes would be the better option.

I am travelling from Euston to Milton Keynes Central on the previous Friday, & have also bought an Anytime Day single e-ticket for that journey, for BZ6 to Milton Keynes Central, again with the intention of getting an LNWR train.

Given my trip as a whole, Euston to Milton Keynes on the Friday afternoon, & returning on the following Monday, is it a waste of money to have bought the Anytime e-tickets?

Could I cancel the two e-tickets, & buy something just as flexible, but cheaper? Would there be a cost involved, which might eat up any saving made by changing my current tickets?
The admin fee for refunding your tickets would depend on the retailer you used. Most retailers charge the maximum £5 admin fee allowed under the National Rail Conditions of Travel. Some charge less for lower-value tickets (though this usually only applies to tickets under £10 or so). A few don't charge admin fees at all - Railsmartr and Ticketyboo are the only two that universally apply this for walk-up tickets, to my knowledge - so it might be worthwhile using them in future.

It's worth noting that a ticket from Boundary Zone 6 and one from Harrow & Wealdstone would both be equally valid to combine with your 60+ Oyster card. However, if you're splitting at Bletchley, for some reason the single leg priced fares only exist from Harrow & Wealdstone, not from Boundary Zone 6. Probably an oversight by WMT when setting up the new Project Oval fares - but either way, just buy from Harrow & Wealdstone if you want to split at Bletchley.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,689
Since you want to take the Milton Keynes stoppers which all call at Bletchley, and since you are returning the next day, you would be better off splitting at Bletchley. This is because Bletchley is within the 'single leg pricing' Project Oval PAYG area, so a single costs half of the equivalent Day Return, whereas the period/open return you could get to Milton Keynes is more expensive than a Day Return.

Splitting at Bletchley would reduce the cost to £11.85 each way. The only thing worth noting is that a Harrow & Wealdstone - Bletchley Off-Peak ticket is a bit more restrictive - you can't depart before 09:30 in either direction, and heading out of London you can't depart between 16:00 and 19:00. If you'll be travelling between those times, a through ticket to/from Milton Keynes would be the better option.
The saving doesn't apply to tickets from Boundary Zone 6 - the OP would be better buying the Bletchley ticket to start from Euston to get the prices you have mentioned. Harrow is also more expensive than Euston!
 

jumble

Established Member
Joined
1 Jul 2011
Messages
1,494
The shaded area shown in the map linked from this page.

For Euston, that covers as far as Wolverton on the main line and Long Buckby on the Northampton Loop.

Not quite. You can't use Avanti services as a 60+ Oyster isn't valid on them, even in conjunction with a ticket to/from Boundary Zone 6. A Freedom Pass is valid on Avanti, however.

The additional restriction only applies to journeys wholly within the Network Railcard area. As Cardiff is outside, you can use a Senior Railcard at any time.

As a general rule of thumb, for journeys heading towards London the restriction is based on the arrival time. For journeys heading away from, or across, London it's based on the departure time.
I am a tad confused about your observations regarding freedom passes and Avanti as the freedom pass map shows it being invalid on National rail north of Harrow and Wealdstone which is Zone 5
The over 60 map shows exactly the same thing so where would one find out why they are treated differently?

 

Geoff_K

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2021
Messages
76
Location
Crayford
Does this mean I need to get tickets to/from BZ5 to Milton Keynes Central then, & refund my BZ6 to/from Milton Keynes Central?
 

jumble

Established Member
Joined
1 Jul 2011
Messages
1,494
Does this mean I need to get tickets to/from BZ5 to Milton Keynes Central then, & refund my BZ6 to/from Milton Keynes Central?

Does this mean I need to get tickets to/from BZ5 to Milton Keynes Central then, & refund my BZ6 to/from Milton Keynes Central?
Unless you change to the Overground at Watford Junction it looks to me that you would not have a valid ticket between Hatch End and Harrow and Wealdstone if you hold a BZ6 and a freedom pass/over 60 but I am open to correction if I have misunderstood
 
Last edited:

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,689
Does this mean I need to get tickets to/from BZ5 to Milton Keynes Central then, & refund my BZ6 to/from Milton Keynes Central?
The map is a little misleading, in that it shows the stations you can travel to with the pass and, as London Northwestern do not stop at a station beyond Harrow & Wealdstone within the zones, it cannot show the zone 6 validity. As there is likely to be an admin charge on refunding the tickets you already have (you haven't mentioned where you bought them) there is unlikely to be any benefit in refunding them on this occasion.
 

jumble

Established Member
Joined
1 Jul 2011
Messages
1,494
The map is a little misleading, in that it shows the stations you can travel to with the pass and, as London Northwestern do not stop at a station beyond Harrow & Wealdstone within the zones, it cannot show the zone 6 validity. As there is likely to be an admin charge on refunding the tickets you already have (you haven't mentioned where you bought them) there is unlikely to be any benefit in refunding them on this occasion.
Ah this makes sense but the question is "is the over 60 pass valid on LNW with a BZ6?"
There would be nothing stopping them from putting Hatch End on the map and marking the NR validity to there if we wanted to be really pedantic
It would in my mind be be clearer than the incorrect assertion of the map which explicitly states the pass is not valid on the Grey NR line
 

marshlinker

Member
Joined
18 May 2026
Messages
170
Location
Romney Marsh
For future journeys depending on the actual trains being used it may be worth considering an East Croydon to Milton Keynes (or vv) route Kensington Olympia Off Peak return £22.80 senior railcard with B1 restriction (after 9.30)
 

Geoff_K

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2021
Messages
76
Location
Crayford
It's mentioned in Post No 7, that the 60+ Oyster is not valid on Avanti.

Can someone please tell me more about this, I couldn't see any mention of it on Google, or in the card's terms & conditions.

Whilst looking at the T&Cs, I did see -

'7. The 60+ London Oyster photocard is not valid on: • Virgin Trains; • London Midland and Southern services between Harrow & Wealdstone and Watford Junction'.

Does this just mean that you can't use the 60+ Oyster to board a train at Harrow & Wealdstone and get off at Watford Junction?

Am I okay, as I'm passing through the two stations?
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,689
It's mentioned in Post No 7, that the 60+ Oyster is not valid on Avanti.

Can someone please tell me more about this, I couldn't see any mention of it on Google, or in the card's terms & conditions.

Whilst looking at the T&Cs, I did see -

'7. The 60+ London Oyster photocard is not valid on: • Virgin Trains; • London Midland and Southern services between Harrow & Wealdstone and Watford Junction'.

Does this just mean that you can't use the 60+ Oyster to board a train at Harrow & Wealdstone and get off at Watford Junction?

Am I okay, as I'm passing through the two stations?
Virgin Trains = Avanti.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,689
You cannot travel on Southern or London Northwestern (successor to London Midland) services beyond Harrow & Wealdstone without buying a ticket to cover the onward travel. That ticket would need to be from Boundary Zone 6 or Harrow & Wealdstone, or Euston (or a large number of other stations within zones 1 to 6).
 

jumble

Established Member
Joined
1 Jul 2011
Messages
1,494
It's mentioned in Post No 7, that the 60+ Oyster is not valid on Avanti.

Can someone please tell me more about this, I couldn't see any mention of it on Google, or in the card's terms & conditions.

Whilst looking at the T&Cs, I did see -

'7. The 60+ London Oyster photocard is not valid on: • Virgin Trains; • London Midland and Southern services between Harrow & Wealdstone and Watford Junction'.

Does this just mean that you can't use the 60+ Oyster to board a train at Harrow & Wealdstone and get off at Watford Junction?

Am I okay, as I'm passing through the two stations?
You can use over 60 if you change to the Lioness line at Watford although this is much slower
 

Top