Why don't trains on Platform 6/7 at Guildford open their doors into Platform 7?

[JulienD]

Platform 7 is also all covered with 'Do not alight here' signs.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

The third rail runs alongside platform 7, so it's deemed too risky to open the doors on that side. Dispatching from both platforms 6 and 7 at once would also prove operationally problematic and provide very little benefit for the lightly-used Guildford to Farnham services.

 

[Recessio]

Worth noting doors do open both sides on some DLR stations, but that's allowed because the conductor rail is not top-contact (i.e. the pickup shoes on the train don't touch the top of the electrified third rail). Therefore there isn't as much risk of electrocution as there would be if someone fell down the gap between the train and platform 7 at Guildford.

Not sure how London Underground allows this at e.g. Morden, maybe the 4 rail system makes it safer?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Worth noting doors do open both sides on some DLR stations, but that's allowed because the conductor rail is not top-contact (i.e. the pickup shoes on the train don't touch the top of the electrified third rail). Therefore there isn't as much risk of electrocution as there would be if someone fell down the gap between the train and platform 7 at Guildford.

In my experiences on the DLR, the gaps there tend to be almost non-existent so I'd imagine the risk of someone falling between the train and the platform being negligible.

 

[William3000]

What was the reason originally for Guildford station being designed like this? Why were there not two running lines through 6 and 7. There are some other examples of single running lines with platforms both side - I think Yeovil Pen Mill has the same but I always wondered what the original purpose was.

 

[renegademaster]

How were trains dispatched at platforms like this and the one at Norwood Junction in the slam door era? Did guards have to step out at both sides before giving the ding ding?

 

[yorksrob]

What was the reason originally for Guildford station being designed like this? Why were there not two running lines through 6 and 7. There are some other examples of single running lines with platforms both side - I think Yeovil Pen Mill has the same but I always wondered what the original purpose was.

Lewes used to have one up until the 1970's (you can still walk across the filled in gap) as did Christs Hospital at one time.

Malton in Yorkshire did as well until the island platform was removed.

I don't know why these arrangements were built - I'd assumed it was something to do with luggage/parcels loading.

 

[zwk500]

Lewes used to have one up until the 1970's (you can still walk across the filled in gap) as did Christs Hospital at one time.

Malton in Yorkshire did as well until the island platform was removed.

I don't know why these arrangements were built - I'd assumed it was something to do with luggage/parcels loading.

Lewes's I always assumed was down to the site constraints - the junction, bridges, and tight curves means there's a limit to what could be done.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

What was the reason originally for Guildford station being designed like this?

It wasn't as such. Many stations of Victorian heritage were enlarged piece meal over time as service levels/demand increased. Until the 1870's Guildford consisted of three platform faces, those that are now p2 (old p1) Down line, p3 (old p2) Up line, and a shorter plat (old p3), an Up loop, that was approximately where p4 is today, with the first two of those covered by an overall train shed style roof. To the West of the platforms was the original loco yard with a 2-road shed etc.
The station was rebuilt in the 1880's and more land was acquired westwards. This is when the platform arrangements that one sees today largely came in to being, but numbered 1-7. No 1 bay* as today, wasn't added until 1925, with the advancing suburban electrification, and was originally numbered p8.

The major difference between these times and today, is the direction of routes/travel through some of the platforms.

P7 (P8 as it is today) was Northbound (only) towards Ash.
P6/5 (p7/6 today) was Northbound (only) towards Woking.
P4 (p5 today) was Southbound (only) off the Ash road.
p3 (p4 today) was Southbound (only) off the Woking road.
P2 (p3 today) was Northbound (only) towards Woking or Cobham.
P1 (p2 today) was Southbound (only) off Woking/Cobham roads.

*Platforms 1 to 7 were renumbered 2 to 8 in 1938 just after colour light signalling had been installed and the old p8 (Up bay) became p1.

Other stations with the same single lines with two platform faces in addition to those listed by others (above) were Woking (the Down Main Slow). There was no platform serving the Up Main Fast, until the rebuild of 1937.

Ascot (p1/2), which still has the same arrangement, and here mitigation has been put in place by way of fencing along the edge of p2 (the juice rail side). This being driven (largely I believe) by the huge crowds that pass through there during Royal Ascot week. Guildford doesn't have such crowding problems as a rule over on p6/7 & 8.

Back in past times such stations had more staff, and so trains using those platforms could be managed, and even in slam door electric days, a driver could look back along their side of the train (as a back up), whilst the guard checked the off side, hence both sides could eye balled by the train crew, in addition to a member of platform staff, until the guard gave the 2 on the bell/buzzer.

 

[davetheguard]

How were trains dispatched at platforms like this and the one at Norwood Junction in the slam door era? Did guards have to step out at both sides before giving the ding ding?

Yes, I can confirm that we did!

 

[The exile]

Lewes used to have one up until the 1970's (you can still walk across the filled in gap) as did Christs Hospital at one time.

Malton in Yorkshire did as well until the island platform was removed.

I don't know why these arrangements were built - I'd assumed it was something to do with luggage/parcels loading.

Am I imagining it or did Reading have one at the western end (7) until the last rebuild?

 

[davetheguard]

Am I imagining it or did Reading have one at the western end (7) until the last rebuild?

Bay platform 7 at the western end & bay platform 6 at the eastern end. Both had platform faces either side of a single track.

 

[Gloster]

How were trains dispatched at platforms like this and the one at Norwood Junction in the slam door era? Did guards have to step out at both sides before giving the ding ding?

Back in 1978 when I worked at Guildford and often did the 7/8 platform duty, everything was basically left to the staff on 5/6 to see to the trains on this road, but the 7/8 Railman would, if possible, keep an eye on the trains at departure times. Before giving Right Away most guards would quickly stick their head out of the window on the Platform 7 side; although a few EMUs used it, the main use was by Reading-bound Tadpoles, which weren’t that long. Occasionally there was a lot of mail to load and both 6 and 7 were used: I have told how I overenthusiastically threw one bag towards the top of the pile, only for it to sail over the top, out of the opposite door and hit the Chargeman on 6.

 

[zwk500]

Bay platform 7 at the western end & bay platform 6 at the eastern end. Both had platform faces either side of a single track.

Wigan Wallgate platform 2, Carlisle platform 2 also has platform faces on both sides of a single track.

 

[JonathanH]

Bay platform 7 at the western end & bay platform 6 at the eastern end. Both had platform faces either side of a single track.

Prior to the 165/166 fleet being introduced, boarding at Reading platforms 6 / 7 could be from either side of the train. The longer platform face, south side on platform 7 and north side on platform 6 was used once power door units were used.

At Ascot, doors continued to be opened on both sides of platform 1 into the initial 458 era with two door close cycles. It was only later that doors opened on the north side.

Guildford platform 6/7 was one side only from the introduction of 458s, then 450s. Previously, it wasn't unknown for people to make interchange from platform 5 to 8 through a stabled train instead of using the footbridge or underpass.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Wigan Wallgate platform 2,

It's platform 3 that is the bay platform - on the rare occasion a passenger train is there, doors are opened onto the platform 1 side.
Platform 2 is the Manchester bound platform.

 

[80sGuard]

How were trains dispatched at platforms like this and the one at Norwood Junction in the slam door era? Did guards have to step out at both sides before giving the ding ding?

In my case, dealing with situations of a platform face on both sides of the train wasn't covered by the Training School. It was something you found out about when doing your route learning. In addition to Guildford , which is the subject of this thread, 'the up road at Ascot has (or had,maybe it's been rebuilt since my time) platform faces on both sides of the t rain. Facing in the up direction, on the left of the train is a platform that has the station building on it, on the right is an island platform, with the down line on the other side.

Working an up train, you observed the train arrive from the station side, as that's where most of the passengers were likely to be. Also, the shuttle from (coincidentally') Guildford would usually have terminated in the down platform prior to your arrival, so it was very likely to be at least the shuttle Guard observing your arrival. On departure, you checked the down platform first, them the station platform and if all was well, give the tip to the driver. This wasn't official guidance, the Rule Book instructed you to observe the train as it ntered/left a platform, not what to do when there were two ro choose from. This sort of thing was passed on from Guards with decades of experience..

At Guildford, platforms 6 and 7 were open to the public. I had a regular turn working empty vans from Portsmouth & Southsea to Waterloo to form the Portsmouth News train the following morning. That had a loco change at Guildford, (Crompton off ED on) which was usually in 6/7 .

 

[JKF]

Bristol Temple Meads used to have two island platforms under the main train shed roof, with single roads on the outer faces (so it went what is currently Platform 3 by the station entrance, single track, platform, double track, platform, single track, platform. This gave two single roads with platform faces on both sides. Looking at it now with just the outer platforms and four roads through you do wonder how they managed to fit it all in, presumably Platform 3 was a lot narrower. Given the curvature of the station it must have been a nightmare for the guard!

 

[izvor]

Horsted Keynes (Biuebell Railway) has 2 faces on its main down line. With its slam door stock it must be impossible to stop pax using both sides. I don't know what the formal arrangements are here, and do they not use it in normal circumstances now?

Stratford has 2 such tracks on the Central Line, deliberately designed to facilitate cross-platform interchange onto the GE main line platforms (now Elizabeth Line).

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I had a regular turn working empty vans from Portsmouth & Southsea to Waterloo to form the Portsmouth News train the following morning. That had a loco change at Guildford, (Crompton off ED on) which was usually in 6/7 .

Was that the 19V01 or 21V43 off Southsea? Curious as loco diagrams from the era/patch, being produced on loose sheets of paper back then, are as good as non existent these days. Outdated pages were often just used a scarp paper, being single sided as they were.

 

[Gloster]

Was that the 19V01 or 21V43 off Southsea? Curious as loco diagrams from the era/patch, being produced on loose sheets of paper back then, are as good as non existent these days. Outdated pages were often just used a scarp paper, being single sided as they were.

When I was young in the seventies (nineteen-seventies) the Portsmouth vans remained 33 worked when they followed the ca. 09.52 Guildford up the New Line. When being dragged into Guildford I always hoped that it would be close behind it so that it slowly passed through Horsley while we waited on the Down platform for the 10.10. The 02 headcode was the second one I learnt after 42.

 

[Lemmy282]

Trains in the bay platform 7 at Sheffield Midland used to be boarded from the side adjacent to platform 6, but that has now changed to boarding from the platform 8 side.

 

[80sGuard]

Was that the 19V01 or 21V43 off Southsea? Curious as loco diagrams from the era/patch, being produced on loose sheets of paper back then, are as good as non existent these days. Outdated pages were often just used a scarp paper, being single sided as they were.

It was the 21V43 train. Here;s the turn in full:

Clapjam Junction Duty 168

Rest day Saturday

On 1605

Pass 1625 to Strawberry Hill
Strawberry Hill Depot 17+37
Waterloo (M) 18+10 1822
PD Guildford 1917 1926
Portsmouth & Southsea 2034
PNB
Portsmouth & Southsea 21V43
Waterloo (M) 23V45
Pass 0002 to Clapham Junction

Off 0029 (8h 4m)

If you're not used to reading crew rosters then column 1 decribes an activity, column 2 where it takes pklaxw, column 3 arrival time and column 4 departure time.

Pass means travel as a passenge,

PD means portion detached (i.r. tjhe trains divides at the location shown).

A '+' symbol in the time indicates the train is ECS - empty.

A 'V'in the time means the train is formed of NPCCS Non Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock (Vans for short).

Consecutive lines indicates you remain on the train. So in this case you stay ion the train you join at Strawberry Hill until it gets to Portsmouth.The first train used to be 8-VEP, but it became 4VEP-2HAP in later days. The detached portion was the rear unit which shunted at Guildford to form the 1933 to Ascot. The long dwell time tat Guildford was to allow for the detachment and a fast Portsmouth Harbour (81) train and a semi-fast Fratton (72) to overtake. as the 1822 from Waterloo was a lowly 73.

The vans train was always a rake of vacuum braked news vans with a BSK in the middle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2026 ==

It was the 21V43 train. Here;s the turn in full:

Clapjam Junction Duty 168

Rest day Saturday

On 1605

Pass 1625 to Strawberry Hill
Strawberry Hill Depot 17+37
Waterloo (M) 18+10 1822
PD Guildford 1917 1926
Portsmouth & Southsea 2034
PNB
Portsmouth & Southsea 21V43
Waterloo (M) 23V45
Pass 0002 to Clapham Junction

Off 0029 (8h 4m)

If you're not used to reading crew rosters then column 1 decribes an activity, column 2 where it takes pklaxw, column 3 arrival time and column 4 departure time.

Pass means travel as a passenge,

PD means portion detached (i.r. tjhe trains divides at the location shown).

A '+' symbol in the time indicates the train is ECS - empty.

A 'V'in the time means the train is formed of NPCCS Non Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock (Vans for short).

Consecutive lines indicates you remain on the train. So in this case you stay ion the train you join at Strawberry Hill until it gets to Portsmouth.The first train used to be 8-VEP, but it became 4VEP-2HAP in later days. The detached portion was the rear unit which shunted at Guildford to form the 1933 to Ascot. The long dwell time tat Guildford was to allow for the detachment and a fast Portsmouth Harbour (81) train and a semi-fast Fratton (72) to overtake. as the 1822 from Waterloo was a lowly 73.

The vans train was always a rake of vacuum braked news vans with a BSK in the middle.

The formatting seems to have gone astray, hopefully this will make things clearer

 

[Big Jumby 74]

If you're not used to reading crew rosters

Thanks for taking the time to explain the detail. You aren't to know but I had nearly 4 decades in planning, mostly stock (van diagramming included back in the day) but also with a healthy appreciation of TC diagramming and timings, which helps when one is planning the stock side. I'm sure others may appreciate an understanding of such things, so not wasted.

Back in the day when there was a crew depot at Clapham I see. Heard on the retired grapevine that there may be a return in that direction in the not too distant? How that old cart wheel goes round in circles!

PS to ALL. veering OT here, so will draw a line!

 

[80sGuard]

Thanks for taking the time to explain the detail. You aren't to know but I had nearly 4 decades in planning, mostly stock (van diagramming included back in the day) but also with a healthy appreciation of TC diagramming and timings, which helps when one is planning the stock side. I'm sure others may appreciate an understanding of such things, so not wasted.

Back in the day when there was a crew depot at Clapham I see. Heard on the retired grapevine that there may be a return in that direction in the not too distant? How that old cart wheel goes round in circles!

PS to ALL. veering OT here, so will draw a line!

Thank you - its bveen decades since I worked on the raillway, but if I can contributem I will. Tell ius more avout what might be happening at Claphanm J (or is it 'management eye only' stuff)?

 

[JohnElliott]

Horsted Keynes (Biuebell Railway) has 2 faces on its main down line. With its slam door stock it must be impossible to stop pax using both sides. I don't know what the formal arrangements are here, and do they not use it in normal circumstances now?

Stratford has 2 such tracks on the Central Line, deliberately designed to facilitate cross-platform interchange onto the GE main line platforms (now Elizabeth Line).

I despatched from that platform on the Bluebell in my younger days. The process was to give the right away from the station side first (outside of the curve), then the island platform (inside of the curve). The porter on the station side had the option of locking the door from the booking hall so new arrivals couldn't try to run for the train. I think if anyone tried to alight after I'd given the right away my only option would have been to blow my whistle to attract the guard's attention.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2026 ==

Lewes used to have one up until the 1970's (you can still walk across the filled in gap) as did Christs Hospital at one time.

Malton in Yorkshire did as well until the island platform was removed.

I don't know why these arrangements were built - I'd assumed it was something to do with luggage/parcels loading.

At Norwood Junction it looks as if the platform may have been widened so that two tracks were reduced to one.

I believe both Crystal Palace stations were originally built with platforms on both sides of the track, presumably in anticipation of large crowds.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

The process was to give the right away from the station side first (outside of the curve), then the island platform (inside of the curve).

It's not always about the platform side either in some circumstances. Was travelling 'pass' to work once in the van of the rear unit of a 12 VEP, and having stopped as per norm in the Up loop at Clapham (p7), we had started away from same when I noticed two of the guys (shunters) in the yard were shouting and pointing towards the front end of the train I was on. Having dropped the droplight and looked forward, couldn't see anything amiss (the nature of the curve meant I could only see may be three or four cars in front of my position bearing in mind I was in either car 10 or 11 of 12), but given what was potentially happening, had no option but to drop the handle from the van I was in, albeit done slowly/carefully.

On coming to a stand, buzzed the drive' up, and told him what had happened, and looking back from his position he couldn't see anything amiss either! One of those weird occasions, but when all said and down, couldn't take a chance, and we (as a train) lost may be 2-3 minutes, but better safe than sorry. The driver and I spoke in person on arrival at Waterloo, and that was that.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

What was the reason originally for Guildford station being designed like this? Why were there not two running lines through 6 and 7. There are some other examples of single running lines with platforms both side - I think Yeovil Pen Mill has the same but I always wondered what the original purpose was.

One platform to board from and the other to alight to?

 

[izvor]

One platform to board from and the other to alight to?

I used to find it convenient on occasions when changing between the Aldershots and the diesels. But this may not have been the reason for its design originally.

The last time I tried this was when the Turbos were fairly new and I hadn't realised the doors were no longer opening on the P7 side. Luckily the guard saw me trying to board and waved me in through the rear cab. I am not railway staff so this was a really kind gesture.

@JohnElliott Thanks for the reply.

 

[Gloster]

What was the reason originally for Guildford station being designed like this? Why were there not two running lines through 6 and 7. There are some other examples of single running lines with platforms both side - I think Yeovil Pen Mill has the same but I always wondered what the original purpose was.

I think that one factor in 6/7 being two-sided is lack of space to fit two lines in without shortening the platforms or extending them inconveniently northwards. The lines came out of the tunnel, past where the shed was and can only then spread out as they pass under the Farnham Road bridge. If there was then a further point to lead into double-track, the platform ends would be even further away. It is all a matter of compromise.