CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[tfw756rider]

197016+197121 Milford Haven-Carmarthen
197121+197016 Carmarthen-Swansea
197016+197121 Swansea-Manchester Piccadilly

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2026 ==

It has just occurred to me that until 197039, 197040 and 197041 enter service, a combined 197 172/195/196/197s have been in service (all the MTU 1800 Series engine / ZF 6-speed gearbox Diesel Multiple Units in Great Britain).

 

[Anonymous10]

5-car from Milford Haven this morning?! Is that correct and common? I thought they usually coupled up to make 5 at Cardiff?

Yes the 7am is usually 5 coach from either milford haven or carmarthen.

 

[XFeed]

Posted on Linkedin by Rail Delivery Group
Shows some behind the scenes procedures at Canton prior to units entering service with some 197 stuff as well.

We’re pleased to share the first video in our Good Practice Video Series, created to support the Network Performance Board’s (NPB) Performance Restoration Framework (PRF). 'Tactical Operations –… | Rail Delivery Group

We’re pleased to share the first video in our Good Practice Video Series, created to support the Network Performance Board’s (NPB) Performance Restoration Framework (PRF). 'Tactical Operations – Start On Time' explores the importance of getting trains away on time, and the impact this has on...

www.linkedin.com

 

[wythallpaul]

197040 has entered Service According to Realtime Trains.

 

[Peter Sarf]

197040 has entered Service According to Realtime Trains.

All day (Friday 15/05/2026) on Chester/Wrexham according to the data Live Rail Record has access to for 197040. Then to Canton overnight.

 

[Techniquest]

All day (Friday 15/05/2026) on Chester/Wrexham according to the data Live Rail Record has access to for 197040. Then to Canton overnight.

I was not expecting a new 197 to enter service, that’s good news for me

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[Kite159]

I guess TfW need as many working 197s as possible ready for the new timetable

 

[Chorley Cake]

Nothing on Crewe South Yard this morning. 024 stabled at Shrewsbury Foregate.

 

[Jez]

I guess TfW need as many working 197s as possible ready for the new timetable

I think there are still 48 diagrams for the 197s in the new timetable however yes every extra unit in service will certainly help with so many out of service waiting repairs.

I think 22 of the 3 car diagrams out of just 26 units is very optimistic! Also the Bidstons not having any 197 booked, i wouldnt be at all surprised if they are still required to cover, there were 2 of them the other day working Wrexham-Bidston.

 

[Gordonman]

Nothing on Crewe South Yard this morning. 024 stabled at Shrewsbury Foregate.

Thanks,

There was a 3Z00 Crewe South Yard - Chester TMD on Monday 11/05/2026.Nothing was allocated in Trust so must have run as a ROG move.
197040 was obviously involved as it entered service from Chester yesterday,but perhaps 197041 also moved to Chester at the same time.

 

[Johnhayworth21]

Apologies if this has been covered already but will 197s continue to operate select few Birmingham services from the May timetable change?

 

[tfw756rider]

197040 has entered Service According to Realtime Trains.

All day (Friday 15/05/2026) on Chester/Wrexham according to the data Live Rail Record has access to for 197040. Then to Canton overnight.

Thanks for letting us know

The entry-to-service of 197040 on Fri 15/5/26 now means that 75 (of 77) 197s have been in service.

49 (of 51) 2-car 197s have been in service:
All 30 non-ETCS 2-cars (197001-002, 197004-021, 197042-051)
19 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 2-cars (197003, 197022-038)

All 26 3-car 197s have been in service:
All 12 188-seat 3-cars (197101-112)
All 14 174-seat 3-cars (197113-126)

The number of 197s still to enter service is down to 2, both of which are ETCS-fitted 2-cars:
197039 and 197041 (both of these units have been delivered and accepted)

==============================

The overall number of new Transport for Wales (TfW) trains that have been in service is now up to 110 (of 148):

75 (of 77) 197s
49 (of 51) 197/0s

• All 30 non-ETCS 197/0s
• 19 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 197/0s

All 26 197/1s

• All 12 188-seat 197/1s
• All 14 174-seat 197/1s

All 11 231s

All 24 756s
All 7 756/0s
All 17 756/1s

This leaves 38 new TfW trains still to enter service:

2 197/0s (both of which are ETCS-fitted units)
36 398s

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2026 ==

Apologies if this has been covered already but will 197s continue to operate select few Birmingham services from the May timetable change?

I'd like to know this too. I just did a search in this thread for "Birmingham" but couldn't find anything on this, even though I thought someone mentioned it. I'd be surprised though if they didn't (only to start going back to Birmingham again in about 4 months' time as part of the Birmingham-Cambrian services when the 197s will be in service on the Cambrian itself).

 

[Caaardiff]

Apologies if this has been covered already but will 197s continue to operate select few Birmingham services from the May timetable change?

Not booked, except for the usual ones on a sunday. The requirement for 158s will drop as Birmingham services will terminate at Llandudno junction instead of Holyhead.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks for letting us know

The entry-to-service of 197040 on Fri 15/5/26 now means that 75 (of 77) 197s have been in service.

49 (of 51) 2-car 197s have been in service:
All 30 non-ETCS 2-cars (197001-002, 197004-021, 197042-051)
19 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 2-cars (197003, 197022-038)

All 26 3-car 197s have been in service:
All 12 188-seat 3-cars (197101-112)
All 14 174-seat 3-cars (197113-126)

The number of 197s still to enter service is down to 2, both of which are ETCS-fitted 2-cars:
197039 and 197041 (both of these units have been delivered and accepted)

==============================

The overall number of new Transport for Wales (TfW) trains that have been in service is now up to 110 (of 148):

75 (of 77) 197s
49 (of 51) 197/0s

• All 30 non-ETCS 197/0s
• 19 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 197/0s

All 26 197/1s

• All 12 188-seat 197/1s
• All 14 174-seat 197/1s

All 11 231s

All 24 756s
All 7 756/0s
All 17 756/1s

This leaves 38 new TfW trains still to enter service:

2 197/0s (both of which are ETCS-fitted units)
36 398s

Thanks for the update.

Could argue it is almost only one 197 left to go - maybe.
That is because 197039 has worked a fair bit on the Cambrian testing/training. It is the only 197 to have done so that has not actually been used for real passengers before iirc !.

I wonder if 197039 will drift onto non-ETCS passenger services sooner rather than later.
I vaguely recall other ETCS 197s might have done a stint on Cambrian testing/training before going onto non-ETCS passenger work ?.
(I was not following testing/training workings on Cambrian originally so no idea if there were many until recently).
Or perhaps 197039 is to never often stray from Cambrian if the roll out of ETCS 197s happens before the end of Summer.

Any ideas when 197041 might enter service or go onto Cambrian testing/training(/service) ?.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2026 ==


I'd like to know this too. I just did a search in this thread for "Birmingham" but couldn't find anything on this, even though I thought someone mentioned it. I'd be surprised though if they didn't (only to start going back to Birmingham again in about 4 months' time as part of the Birmingham-Cambrian services when the 197s will be in service on the Cambrian itself).

I think, with 197s being so stretched, that 158s might be left to cover the Shrewsbury to/from West Midlands part of Cambrian services.

Seems obvious 398s are not any time soon (this year) going to significantly release 756s & 231s to allow the move of 197s away from some of the current internal-ish South Wales services.
Even with 398s there is still the low availability of 197s and the fact two 197s are still doing Wrexham/Bidston to deal with.

 

[Gordonman]

Long term stopped 197045 has worked a 5T45 Chester TMD - Crewe - Chester TMD test run today.First working since 29/11/25 as far as I know.

Anyone know when it moved from Cardiff Canton - Chester?

 

[tfw756rider]

Long term stopped 197045 has worked a 5T45 Chester TMD - Crewe - Chester TMD test run today.First working since 29/11/25 as far as I know.

Anyone know when it moved from Cardiff Canton - Chester?

Thanks for letting us know. Finally, 197045 is being (re)tested 9 months after its gearbox failure in Carmarthen in late August 2025. I'm assuming that, due to the mistreatment of this 197 for some reason (allowing its interior to become 'caked in mould'), some sort of interior refit has been carried out?

 

[sd0733]

Anyone know when it moved from Cardiff Canton - Chester?

It got moved by road from Landore to Chester a week or so ago.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2026 ==

Long term stopped 197045 has worked a 5T45 Chester TMD - Crewe - Chester TMD test run today.First working since 29/11/25 as far as I know.

Good news its out and about. I believe its longer than that, August rings a bell when it failed.

 

[wythallpaul]

It got moved by road from Landore to Chester a week or so ago.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2026 ==


Good news its out and about. I believe its longer than that, August rings a bell when it failed.

Good Information about the Date of the Failure of 197045 is Contained in Post 9396.

 

[158822]

197045 back in service today on Llandudno Liverpool services.

 

[trainspotter4]

Was the interior of 197045 actually as bad as people made out? Just seems like a quick turn around from Chester if so?

 

[wythallpaul]

It Appears with the Latest Timetable change that Cl197's are no longer booked to work into Birmingham International (Apart from Sunday Evenings?) until the Cambrian Starts Proper.
This brings to an end a 65 Week Period (Started 17-02-2025) or 455 Days when it would not have been unusual to see a Train Formed of Cl197's arrive at BHI.
The Top Three 2 Car Visitors were:-
3rd Place 197012 - 28 Days.
2nd Place 197001 - 29 Days.
1st Place 197043 - 34 Days.
I have no Record of 197025, 197030, 197039, 197040 or 197041 Working into BHI. (for Completeness).
The most Infrequent Visitors were 197029 & 197032 - Both 2 Days Only.
(it is Possible that some Workings may have gone Unnoticed).

 

[MikePJ]

Last Wednesday I drove from Cardiff to Sheffield and as I drove out of the city I passed a lorry carrying what appeared to be a complete 197 bogie. The lorry was heading east on the M4, potentially to CAF at Newport?

 

[tfw756rider]

Was the interior of 197045 actually as bad as people made out? Just seems like a quick turn around from Chester if so?

I'd imagine that the months of it being at Landore might have had something to do with the alleged interior refit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2026 ==

197045 back in service today on Llandudno Liverpool services.

Thanks for letting us know.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2026 ==

Last Wednesday I drove from Cardiff to Sheffield and as I drove out of the city I passed a lorry carrying what appeared to be a complete 197 bogie. The lorry was heading east on the M4, potentially to CAF at Newport?

Sounds interesting, though I wonder why they'd have a 197 back (to have that bogie fitted), as all of them (from the 2018 order at least) have now left in terms of original build.

 

[sd0733]

It Appears with the Latest Timetable change that Cl197's are no longer booked to work into Birmingham International (Apart from Sunday Evenings?) until the Cambrian Starts Proper.

Yes, the only booked 197s to International are now the 21:51/22:32 arrivals and 22:11/22:41 Departures on a Sunday.

There is also a Monday to Friday working to New Street which is 20:10 Llandudno to New Street and empty back to Shrewsbury.

 

[tfw756rider]

It Appears with the Latest Timetable change that Cl197's are no longer booked to work into Birmingham International (Apart from Sunday Evenings?) until the Cambrian Starts Proper.
This brings to an end a 65 Week Period (Started 17-02-2025) or 455 Days when it would not have been unusual to see a Train Formed of Cl197's arrive at BHI.
The Top Three 2 Car Visitors were:-
3rd Place 197012 - 28 Days.
2nd Place 197001 - 29 Days.
1st Place 197043 - 34 Days.
I have no Record of 197025, 197030, 197039, 197040 or 197041 Working into BHI. (for Completeness).
The most Infrequent Visitors were 197029 & 197032 - Both 2 Days Only.
(it is Possible that some Workings may have gone Unnoticed).

Looks like 197034 and 197101 (as seperate trains) were used to/from Birmingham yesterday evening (Sun 17/5/26), but a lot of the services before them that day were cancelled due to a power failure apparently.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Birmingham New Street all day on 17/05/2026

Train information at Birmingham New Street all day on 17/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(Transport for Wales passenger calls only - the 197s are the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th trains of the bottom 6 trains)

 

[Jez]

Yes, the only booked 197s to International are now the 21:51/22:32 arrivals and 22:11/22:41 Departures on a Sunday.

There is also a Monday to Friday working to New Street which is 20:10 Llandudno to New Street and empty back to Shrewsbury.

I also notice that there is a 197 on one of the Bidston diagrams still despite the LTP diagrams saying no 197s on Bidston.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Last Wednesday I drove from Cardiff to Sheffield and as I drove out of the city I passed a lorry carrying what appeared to be a complete 197 bogie. The lorry was heading east on the M4, potentially to CAF at Newport?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2026 ==

+

......................

Sounds interesting, though I wonder why they'd have a 197 back (to have that bogie fitted), as all of them (from the 2018 order at least) have now left in terms of original build.

I suppose it could be a bogie going to CAF Newport for repair ?.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

How come there are no 197s on the Birmingham International runs anymore? It's just 158s now.

 

[Harpo]

How come there are no 197s on the Birmingham International runs anymore? It's just 158s now.

Until the Cambrian switches to 197 presumably?

 

[wythallpaul]

How come there are no 197s on the Birmingham International runs anymore? It's just 158s now.

The Diagrams have changed so that all TfW Trains at Birmingham International either Start or Finish on the Cambrian. i.e Train from North Wales arrives at BHI and then forms a Train to Aberystwyth, or a Train from the Cambrian Arrives at BHI and then forms a Train to North Wales.