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The line through Middlewich

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The Planner

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Formore years than I care to remember, on a number of website, there has been speculative posts about reopening Middlewich railway station as part of new connecting lines.

Now in 2026, what is the current reality attached, if any, to such aspirations.
Nothing.
 

Mcr Warrior

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It's been a hobby horse of the MCRUA (Mid Cheshire Rail Users' Association) for some time. And something for the local MP to repeatedly bang on about in the press. Seemingly to little effect.
 

Zomboid

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What service would serve it? Presumably a Sandbach (Crewe if capacity exists) to Manchester via Altrincham train to give Northwich, Knutsford etc a second tph to Manchester.

Stopping anywhere short of Manchester is likely to make the whole exercise much less likely to be well used, and aside from building a station and upgrading the freight line, problems fitting the train in at Manchester is probably a much harder problem to solve.
 

bluenoxid

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There isn’t a formal end to proposals seeking to open a railway line. Tonight a few of us could declare a campaign to open the railway line to link Middlewich to the Moon but you wouldn’t know if it was no longer a proposal being put forward/campaign group had folded. Middlewich has had a campaign for many years, which has tried to fit proposals within the capacity constraints of the rail network.

The most recent proposal that I saw just before Covid was a Crewe to Preston proposal.

The rebuild of Crewe station for HS2 was where I thought that there would be an opportunity particularly as the HS2 route would thread between Middlewich and Northwich.
 
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lowe1409

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Stopping anywhere short of Manchester is likely to make the whole exercise much less likely to be well used, and aside from building a station and upgrading the freight line, problems fitting the train in at Manchester is probably a much harder problem to solve.
Would Manchester via the mid Cheshire not be highly circuitous though? Surely it'd be quicker to change at sandbach/Crewe for Stockport/Manchester? And would the single line sections between Altrincham and Stockport not present a challenge as well?
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Would Manchester via the mid Cheshire not be highly circuitous though? Surely it'd be quicker to change at sandbach/Crewe for Stockport/Manchester? And would the single line sections between Altrincham and Stockport not present a challenge as well?
Is it not the case that a certain TOC has aspirations of a Birmingham to Manchester Airport service via Crewe that will pass through Sandbach station?
 

Zomboid

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Would Manchester via the mid Cheshire not be highly circuitous though? Surely it'd be quicker to change at sandbach/Crewe for Stockport/Manchester? And would the single line sections between Altrincham and Stockport not present a challenge as well?
People like a direct train, it wouldn't be a fast trip, but I suppose passengers from Northwich and Middlewich (is there a Southwich?) would have the choice of a slow direct train or a potentially faster train changing at Sandbach.

A substantial issue would be conjuring up the paths from Stockport to Manchester.
 

lowe1409

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Is it not the case that a certain TOC has aspirations of a Birmingham to Manchester Airport service via Crewe that will pass through Sandbach station?
How could they serve middlewich though? Unfortunately, the airport western link is non existent.
A substantial issue would be conjuring up the paths from Stockport to Manchester.
You could either split from a Chester at say Northwich, or fantasy idea here, run into victoria via Denton
 

The Planner

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How could they serve middlewich though? Unfortunately, the airport western link is non existent.

You could either split from a Chester at say Northwich, or fantasy idea here, run into victoria via Denton
That adds a crossing move at Heaton Norris, still not that easy.
 

Zomboid

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It doesn't really solve it unless the lines were paired by use (should happen when Stockport is resignalled, IMO, even with the station rebuilds it would cause), but I'd send the Liverpool - Norwich (and possibly Buxton) train via Denton to create space on the Piccadilly/ Castlefield route.

It's not so widely discussed here so I don't know what capacity there may be at Victoria or on the Chat Moss, so that's an assumption...
 

Brubulus

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A Chester/Crewe to Manchester tram-train service. Then an Altrincham- Ashton via Stockport town centre tram-train. That would connect everywhere up quite well, though the service might not be able to run between Crewe and Sandbach. And the Altrincham-Ashton service would be very expensive to build. Plus fleet complications re metrolink.
 

6Gman

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If Knutsford and Northwich ever get their second train per hour from Manchester (which they really should have) then sending it on to Crewe via a reopened Middlewich would be of some value BUT

(speaking as a Cheshire resident) I'm not sure who exactly would use it.

What are the potential traffic flows it would serve?

Yes, some commuting from Middlewich to Manchester (but wouldn't driving to Holmes Chapel or Sandbach be as easy for some given the local geography and car parking?) and some shopping/event traffic. But there aren't many people in Crewe who travel to Northwich/Knutsford nor vice versa.

So who would be on the trains?
 

lowe1409

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That adds a crossing move at Heaton Norris, still not that easy.
Doesnt the limited peak extras do this however empty? That would be the ideal path to use as well going down the mid Cheshire, only running instead from Crewe instead of Chester.
If Knutsford and Northwich ever get their second train per hour from Manchester (which they really should have) then sending it on to Crewe via a reopened Middlewich would be of some value BUT

(speaking as a Cheshire resident) I'm not sure who exactly would use it.

What are the potential traffic flows it would serve?

Yes, some commuting from Middlewich to Manchester (but wouldn't driving to Holmes Chapel or Sandbach be as easy for some given the local geography and car parking?) and some shopping/event traffic. But there aren't many people in Crewe who travel to Northwich/Knutsford nor vice versa.

So who would be on the trains?
Middlewich as I understand it is currently quite poorly served by public transport. I'm sure many a person who would either prefer not to drive, or is unable to would appreciate a service.

As well, the service would provide better links for knutsford/Northwich for wcml services via Crewe along side being a convenient place like mentioned to terminate a second hourly service. Sending such a service south of Northwich is less needed due to it being quieter and less developed than further east. If your terminating at Northwich, Crewe via middlewich isn't a massive extension and could be an easy political win for the soon to be created Cheshire mayor if they do choose to pursue transport. I don't imagine the costs to implement such a scheme would be too great.
 

6Gman

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Doesnt the limited peak extras do this however empty? That would be the ideal path to use as well going down the mid Cheshire, only running instead from Crewe instead of Chester.

Middlewich as I understand it is currently quite poorly served by public transport. I'm sure many a person who would either prefer not to drive, or is unable to would appreciate a service.

As well, the service would provide better links for knutsford/Northwich for wcml services via Crewe along side being a convenient place like mentioned to terminate a second hourly service. Sending such a service south of Northwich is less needed due to it being quieter and less developed than further east. If your terminating at Northwich, Crewe via middlewich isn't a massive extension and could be an easy political win for the soon to be created Cheshire mayor if they do choose to pursue transport. I don't imagine the costs to implement such a scheme would be too great.
It certainly wouldn't be cheap!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Middlewich as I understand it is currently quite poorly served by public transport. I'm sure many a person who would either prefer not to drive, or is unable to would appreciate a service.
If there was a perceived demand for better public transport in the Middlewich area, one would have expected the bus companies to have already provided it.

The rail destinations options may not meet the actual destinations of the travelling public in that area.
 

daodao

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If there was a perceived demand for better public transport in the Middlewich area, one would have expected the bus companies to have already provided it.

The rail destinations options may not meet the actual destinations of the travelling public in that area.
Your last point is likely to be a significant factor, as Crewe, Sandbach and Northwich stations are all poorly sited for their respective town centres. In addition, there is significant traffic from the Vale Royal area to Leighton Hospital on the northwestern edge of Crewe, for which bus services are the only viable public transport option.
 
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6Gman

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If there was a perceived demand for better public transport in the Middlewich area, one would have expected the bus companies to have already provided it.

The rail destinations options may not meet the actual destinations of the travelling public in that area.
Evening and Sunday services are poor (or non-existent) but Middlewich has direct weekday bus links to Sandbach, Crewe, Winsford and Northwich. Which actually go to the town centres!
 

lowe1409

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If there was a perceived demand for better public transport in the Middlewich area, one would have expected the bus companies to have already provided it.
It's also Cheshire east. I think it is in the bottom 3 councils for bus ridership despite generally having a lot of rail usage where it exists. With the exception of maybe Congleton, where a station exists in Cheshire, it is generally better served transport wise via train than bus for interurban trips
Your last point is likely to be a significant factor, as Crewe, Sandbach and Northwich stations are all poorly sited for their respective town centres. In addition, there is significant traffic from the Vale Royal area to Leighton Hospital on the northwestern edge of Crewe, for which bus services are the only viable public transport option.
This isn't to say it couldn't be a catalyst for newer investment. And don't forget about inward travel towards middlewich. It has a large industrial area next to the ideal location for a new station. Late/early trains will therefore make employment there much more accessible for shift workers than the bus would.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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This isn't to say it couldn't be a catalyst for newer investment. And don't forget about inward travel towards middlewich. It has a large industrial area next to the ideal location for a new station. Late/early trains will therefore make employment there much more accessible for shift workers than the bus would.
Currently, is it not the case that the referred-to shift workers who travel inwards to the large industrial area travel by car from a wide number of locations from where there is no planned rail access to Middlewich which will have services operating at times to suit the working shift times of those workers?
 

lowe1409

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Currently, is it not the case that the referred-to shift workers who travel inwards to the large industrial area travel by car from a wide number of locations from where there is no planned rail access to Middlewich which will have services operating at times to suit the working shift times of those workers?
Linking the mid Cheshire and crewe-manchester lines would mean large portions of Cheshire would be connected with a change at sandbach. Commuters don't often care about direct trains

Trains may stop overnight but industrial/wherehouse shifts are often such that you can arrive on one of the later trains and head home on one of the first. Anyone not working nights wouldnt have to worry. A last departure from sandbach/Northwich after 22.30 should easily cover such bases with first trains leaving middlewich from around 6.30/7ish which is more than reasonable.
 

Bevan Price

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Currently, Northwich to Sandbach is restricted to about 25 mph. Any passenger service would be painfully slow. The cost of relaying would probably be too hight to justify, for a line unlikely to attract huge numbers of passengers.
 

furnessvale

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Currently, Northwich to Sandbach is restricted to about 25 mph. Any passenger service would be painfully slow. The cost of relaying would probably be too hight to justify, for a line unlikely to attract huge numbers of passengers.
I have no idea why the line speed is 25mph but this could simply be reduced maintenance on a currently freight only line to save money.

A round of tamping could improve line speed without the need for extensive relaying.
 

The Planner

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I have no idea why the line speed is 25mph but this could simply be reduced maintenance on a currently freight only line to save money.

A round of tamping could improve line speed without the need for extensive relaying.
Its a bit more knackered than that. Its not a freight only line, its open to anything that wants to use it.
 

zwk500

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I have no idea why the line speed is 25mph but this could simply be reduced maintenance on a currently freight only line to save money.

A round of tamping could improve line speed without the need for extensive relaying.
A quick flick through the sectional appendix shows:
- Line is currently passenger rated throughout from Sandbach to Northwich West Jn
- 20mph throughout (inc. Middlwich Loop) except 15mph through the loop just north of Sandbach (both ways) and 10mph at Northwich South jn until it joins the Mid-Cheshire Line
- 8 Level Crossings (6 UWC, 1 FP and 1 UWC/FP).
- Down & Up East Chord to Northwich station is 10mph Non-Passenger rated, feeding into the 15mph non-passenger rated Down and Up Goods at Northwich Station.
- Pointwork at Northwich East Jn is all 15mph to/from the DUG.

The branch itself is c.8.5 miles long, the current all-stopper journey time from Manchester Piccadilly to Northwich is 54 mins. Given it's only really Middlewich being served better, what does the journey time over the branch need to be to offer an effective service to the town?
Google gives 8 mins to drive from Middlewich to Sandbach station, probably needs to be 5 mins then between stops. 3.75 miles in 5 mins = average speed of 45mph. So we're talking tripling the existing linespeed from 20mph to 60mph, which after allowing for the things like acceleration, decelaration, curve at Sandback etc, give you your 5 mins.
That would then give your 4.75miles from Middlewich to Northwich @ avg.45mph = 6.5mins so 1h from Middlewich to Manchester Piccadilly. (Google says 40-50 mins driving on a clear day from Middlewich to Manchester Oxford Road NCP).
Not bad, but not going to be 'transformational' modal shift.
 

furnessvale

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Its a bit more knackered than that. Its not a freight only line, its open to anything that wants to use it.
I bow to your knowledge of the "knackered" state of the line.

My use of the terminology "freight only" was obviously wrong but the sentiment remains. There are no scheduled passenger trains so maintenance of the line can be kept to a minimum allowing only 25mph for the (freight) trains that use it. Any potential use by regular passengers wanting a higher speed would be subject to an appraisal of the costs involved. Incidentally, this provides an interesting cross reference to discussions on the cost of reopening Peak Forest to Matlock for freight only v mixed use.
 

lowe1409

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The branch itself is c.8.5 miles long, the current all-stopper journey time from Manchester Piccadilly to Northwich is 54 mins. Given it's only really Middlewich being served better, what does the journey time over the branch need to be to offer an effective service to the town?
Google gives 8 mins to drive from Middlewich to Sandbach station, probably needs to be 5 mins then between stops. 3.75 miles in 5 mins = average speed of 45mph. So we're talking tripling the existing linespeed from 20mph to 60mph, which after allowing for the things like acceleration, decelaration, curve at Sandback etc, give you your 5 mins.
That would then give your 4.75miles from Middlewich to Northwich @ avg.45mph = 6.5mins so 1h from Middlewich to Manchester Piccadilly. (Google says 40-50 mins driving on a clear day from Middlewich to Manchester Oxford Road NCP).
Not bad, but not going to be 'transformational' modal shift.
If time was of such concern, it may end up that it's quicker changing crewe onto an Avanti/tfw would be faster. As well, such a scheme would likely take a few years even if started today. Northerns 15x fleet is due for retirement soon and to be replaced with more modern, and potentially faster excelerating units.

Could this not be a great candidate for a potential new BEMU as you'd have wires between Crewe and sandbach as well as between Stockport and Manchester to recharge on?
 

zwk500

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If time was of such concern, it may end up that it's quicker changing crewe onto an Avanti/tfw would be faster. As well, such a scheme would likely take a few years even if started today. Northerns 15x fleet is due for retirement soon and to be replaced with more modern, and potentially faster excelerating units.

Could this not be a great candidate for a potential new BEMU as you'd have wires between Crewe and sandbach as well as between Stockport and Manchester to recharge on?
Potentially. It's 7 mins from Crewe to Sandbach, so add 5-6 mins on for Middlewich and you're still giving yourself decvent layover at each end for an hourly service with only 1 unit required.

That'd be good for traffic heading North, South or West of Crewe. However the core market to Manchester is unlikely to take a train 15 mins in the wrong direction and interchange when they could drive to a more convenient station.
 

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