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I Squared Capital - Arriva UK BUS

riceuten

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Joined
23 May 2018
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938
The new app is officially launching on 14th April:


Hopefully the new website will follow soon after.

The "new" app is very buggy

* the realtime information isn't - it's just based on timetable information (in Stevenage anyway), not actually tracking the bus (despite claiming otherwise)
* If you click on the bus on the realtime map, it crashes the app.
* The range of tickets is identical to what was on the previous app, and you still can't buy £2.80 singles
* "Service updates" just redirects you a web page where you have to find the Arriva Herts and Essex link. In this case, it doesn't even sort it by location, so presently it's a long list of Southend bus changes, followed by others - there's no indication which buses are in which town
* The "journey planner" only lists Arriva buses - of limited use for a multi-operator environment
* there's a bug in the timetable section that does not allow you to change direction, date, or stops served
* Contact us redirects to the Arriva website

You would have thought some of these would have been ironed out before they released it - public beta, anyone? It's galling to think some fat tie manager is going to get a bonus for the (cough) "successful" introduction of the app.

As I confidently predicted, it's basically just a reskinning of the existing app. I struggle to understand why Arriva Herts and Essex felt it necessary to trumpet the arrival of the "new" app when it is essentially the same thing, and not very good at that either. I despair when people ask for Arriva to be given time to fix the bugs, they shouldn't've launched such a buggy app in the first place.

Best off still using the (not perfect) bustimes.org website. At least I can see whether buses are cancelled there.
 
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sharpley

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18 Aug 2018
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318
Currently on a 158 in Nuneaton, location is correct on the map but if I try a track the bus it shows me on a 158 in Liverpool (presumably Arriva also operate a 158 service there)
 

aron2smith

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20 Jan 2025
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694
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London
Had a look around the website last night and today and despite some out of date information (508 as some here already mentioned), I thought it was a clear improvement. Maps are easy to find, timetables and information is clear and easier to find. Timetables are not available in PDF but that is probably for the best!

I compared it to the websites from First, Stagecoach and Go Ahead. I found it easier to find information on Arriva's website than either First or Stagecoach, both are very clunky and messy in layout. While Stagecoach just straight up assumes you know where they run buses, before bothering to show maps, timetables and general information or service updates!

Go Ahead is far better than all 3 with a dedicated website for each region they serve and all websites having the same layout and functionality. So like London and Manchester's franchised networks, Go Ahead feels consistent despite different branding for each region it serves. Given the random and separate patches these big companies serve, distinguishing each region is best practice in cities and counties where the local council doesn't provide such bus information.

Despite all the everyday issues in the Lea Valley with buses, I'm very glad we have Intalink while neighbouring Essex has the Travel Essex site covering everything. Enthusiasts fortunately do a far better job of any information on London buses than TFL.

I like the way Arriva presents its maps but they have limited use when they only show their own services, with no indication of other key routes. What good is any bus map in Hatfield without Uno's routes on it? Same in Southend or Colchester omitting First Essex's routes. They created good maps just to then only show half of the services! Interestingly, Luton's map shows all routes regardless of operator, how it should be.
 

markymark2000

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Maybe the answer is for those who have found errors to e-mail Customer Services, to at least give them a chance to correct the "low hanging fruits", rather than find everything for themselves?
Exactly this, issues need highlighting to Arriva, they can't fix something they aren't aware of.
For the data issues such as the timetables (and the many many missing stops on various routes), it won't make any difference who you contact, they just bury their heads in the sand. Via customer service, via BODS feedbacks (As it seems to be the same data in the website as what is sent to BODS), via the bus open data team themselves holding meetings with Arriva. Arriva just blank it and stick their fingers in their ears and don't fix anything. I guess that is deemed easier and less effort than actually fixing the issues.

Someone that I know got so fed up of using proper channels and getting nowhere that they started raising the issues directly with the commercial teams who are the ones creating the data in the first place, and they never fixing anything. So they went further and escalated it to the commercial directors for the areas who promised to get it fixed and never did, so they escalated it to area directors and they just passed it back to the commercial directors and again unresolved. I know that they sent in a list of over 100 errors with the Wales dataset of stops missing or wrong stops on almost every single route. Not a single one ever got fixed.

In short, Arriva are FULLY aware of their ongoing shoddy data, they make an active choice to ignore it because it's less effort for them. It's a systemic issue within the company by the looks of it, and so as much as I admire both of your optimism, experience from myself and others says that even when they are fully aware of the issues, and they are through to the correct people, nothing gets fixed sadly.

* The "journey planner" only lists Arriva buses - of limited use for a multi-operator environment
Not a 'bug' though like you are trying to say. Dare I ask if you are also about to go after all other bus companies who only promote their own services?
 

markymark2000

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As I confidently predicted, it's basically just a reskinning of the existing app. I struggle to understand why Arriva Herts and Essex felt it necessary to trumpet the arrival of the "new" app when it is essentially the same thing, and not very good at that either.
I don't know how you can 'confidently' come to that conclusion when it couldn't be any further from the truth. It is a brand new app, it is from a brand new supplier and it works differently. I don't dispute that there are issues and bugs, but to claim this is a reskin, is very incorrect.
 

YorkRailFan

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York
The "new" app is very buggy

* the realtime information isn't - it's just based on timetable information (in Stevenage anyway), not actually tracking the bus (despite claiming otherwise)
* If you click on the bus on the realtime map, it crashes the app.
* The range of tickets is identical to what was on the previous app, and you still can't buy £2.80 singles
* "Service updates" just redirects you a web page where you have to find the Arriva Herts and Essex link. In this case, it doesn't even sort it by location, so presently it's a long list of Southend bus changes, followed by others - there's no indication which buses are in which town
* The "journey planner" only lists Arriva buses - of limited use for a multi-operator environment
* there's a bug in the timetable section that does not allow you to change direction, date, or stops served
* Contact us redirects to the Arriva website

You would have thought some of these would have been ironed out before they released it - public beta, anyone? It's galling to think some fat tie manager is going to get a bonus for the (cough) "successful" introduction of the app.

As I confidently predicted, it's basically just a reskinning of the existing app. I struggle to understand why Arriva Herts and Essex felt it necessary to trumpet the arrival of the "new" app when it is essentially the same thing, and not very good at that either. I despair when people ask for Arriva to be given time to fix the bugs, they shouldn't've launched such a buggy app in the first place.

Best off still using the (not perfect) bustimes.org website. At least I can see whether buses are cancelled there.
A couple things here.

As stated above, it's not a reskinning of the old app, it's a new app using a different supplier.

As I've told you before, Arriva likely won't add the £2.80 fares to avoid people using them on journeys where they aren't valid. Once Tap On Tap Off is rolled out fully, it will be the preferred way to purchase such tickets from Arriva's perspective.

Not offering other operations on journey planner is not an Arriva thing, my local Go Ahead opco does the same and using the same supplier for their app (Passenger). Some areas have rolled out an app encompassing all operators in the area (like Manchester, London, West Yorkshire, etc).

Again, it is perfectly reasonable to have teething errors upon launch. I'd expect some sort of update to be available In the coming weeks/months.

Bustimes isn't always reliable at looking for cancellations, a journey not tracking doesn't mean it didn't operate.
 

duncombec

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3 Sep 2014
Messages
1,147
The "new" app is very buggy
I think you may have to be careful assuming what is an error in the App and what may be an issue with your download. I downloaded it this afternoon, whilst mobile, and had very different results.

* the realtime information isn't - it's just based on timetable information (in Stevenage anyway), not actually tracking the bus (despite claiming otherwise)
It was real time on the services I was using.

* If you click on the bus on the realtime map, it crashes the app.
I clicked on various buses on both my local service and the one I was on and the app worked well.

* "Service updates" just redirects you a web page where you have to find the Arriva Herts and Essex link. In this case, it doesn't even sort it by location, so presently it's a long list of Southend bus changes, followed by others - there's no indication which buses are in which town
There is a 'hyperlink' logo, so I'm not sure why you would expect anything else. The rest of the comment is fair, though... however, if you click on the service update from the specific service timetable, it does take you to the specific update.

* The "journey planner" only lists Arriva buses - of limited use for a multi-operator environment
It's the Arriva app. The Intalink App (in your case) would be for multi-operator planning. Whilst I can see the perspective that it's the bus network, this relies on other operator's data files being up to date - and do you also complain that it doesn't offer you train times, or that LNER's doesn't give you Uber? After all, they are also part of the public transport network...

* there's a bug in the timetable section that does not allow you to change direction, date, or stops served
I didn't experience this - multiple tests.

* Contact us redirects to the Arriva website
Again, there was a "hyperlink" logo, so not surprising.

As I confidently predicted, it's basically just a reskinning of the existing app. I struggle to understand why Arriva Herts and Essex felt it necessary to trumpet the arrival of the "new" app when it is essentially the same thing, and not very good at that either. I despair when people ask for Arriva to be given time to fix the bugs, they shouldn't've launched such a buggy app in the first place.
It very evidently isn't; and is very evidently from a completely separate provider. What does seem to have happened is that it has been worked from the old site data, for good or (mostly) ill.

Best off still using the (not perfect) bustimes.org website. At least I can see whether buses are cancelled there.
You can't. You can only see if the bus isn't tracking. Which means it might turn up anyway.

Had a look around the website last night and today and despite some out of date information (508 as some here already mentioned), I thought it was a clear improvement. Maps are easy to find, timetables and information is clear and easier to find. Timetables are not available in PDF but that is probably for the best!
The 508 is evidently an erroneous header from pre-existing data, likely carried over from the previous site.

I like the way Arriva presents its maps but they have limited use when they only show their own services, with no indication of other key routes. What good is any bus map in Hatfield without Uno's routes on it? Same in Southend or Colchester omitting First Essex's routes. They created good maps just to then only show half of the services! Interestingly, Luton's map shows all routes regardless of operator, how it should be.
This is the job of the local authority, not an operator. The Luton example has authority funding. As has been mentioned a thousand times before, most people make simple journeys from A to B with operator C.

For the data issues such as the timetables (and the many many missing stops on various routes), it won't make any difference who you contact, they just bury their heads in the sand. Via customer service, via BODS feedbacks (As it seems to be the same data in the website as what is sent to BODS), via the bus open data team themselves holding meetings with Arriva. Arriva just blank it and stick their fingers in their ears and don't fix anything. I guess that is deemed easier and less effort than actually fixing the issues.

Someone that I know got so fed up of using proper channels and getting nowhere that they started raising the issues directly with the commercial teams who are the ones creating the data in the first place, and they never fixing anything. So they went further and escalated it to the commercial directors for the areas who promised to get it fixed and never did, so they escalated it to area directors and they just passed it back to the commercial directors and again unresolved. I know that they sent in a list of over 100 errors with the Wales dataset of stops missing or wrong stops on almost every single route. Not a single one ever got fixed.

In short, Arriva are FULLY aware of their ongoing shoddy data, they make an active choice to ignore it because it's less effort for them. It's a systemic issue within the company by the looks of it, and so as much as I admire both of your optimism, experience from myself and others says that even when they are fully aware of the issues, and they are through to the correct people, nothing gets fixed sadly.
How long ago was this? Perhaps something that may change with the new management? Perhaps their complaint style led to it being ignored (vexatious complaining is very definitely "a thing")? Maybe the data is correct when they look, but is somehow being missed from an upload? For example, all services out of Maidstone depot are missing on the "Kent and Surrey" page... yet all show when you search for a timetable by number. The fact a whole depot is missing suggests a whole missing file, rather than a minor error. Developer says: we see file, we see no error. Nobody actually goes back and points out: but look HERE. The timetables are there, because otherwise you couldn't search for them. They are in BODS, because otherwise they wouldn't be on bustimes. It's just missing a "sanity check".

Incidentally, the 724 is also now showing as a through service on both the App and the website this afternoon, as well as the withdrawn 477 disappearing.

STOP PRESS: I looked back just before clicking post, and lo and behold, the vast majority of the services I reported this morning as being missing (the Maidstone services) are showing on the App and website now. Still missing the 4 school services from Gillingham, but they are arguably less important in a school holiday week anyway. A hat to be eaten, perhaps?

STOP STOP PRESS : The 508/509/510 has disappeared from the dropdown, but appears in the timetable search, correctly headed as 509/509A/510/510A.
 

markymark2000

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How long ago was this? Perhaps something that may change with the new management? Perhaps their complaint style led to it being ignored (vexatious complaining is very definitely "a thing")? Maybe the data is correct when they look, but is somehow being missed from an upload?
Ongoing for a number of years and they have even escalated it since the new management came in and still no results they report.

Even away from them making direct complaints though to management, there is a lot of feedback being provided on BODS which I and others have sent in, which get emailed to Arriva straight away after submitting. The feedbacks via BODs are all publicly accessible (download 'data issues reported by consumers' and there is a spreadsheet of all the feedback), and most of the issues are 'ABC route after X stop you are missing Y stop and here is the ATCO stop code that is missing' so it's very clear where the issue is and which stop is missing or incorrect. Some are more vague though and so granted it may be harder to find the issue, but when there are so many which give you all of the information that you need, there's little excuse to not fix it.

With some of the things that I have noticed over time, I have additionally verified with drivers what is showing on Ticketer (as Ticketer has a stop list which updates as they go along the route for both ticket selling purposes and punctuality monitoring for the driver), and the stops are also missing there so not only is it poor data for people planning journeys, but it's affecting drivers when the machine flags the bus as running too early or late, but in reality it's because the punctuality is being worked out against the wrong stop. It also means poorer data reporting back for Arriva and local authorities.

Incidentally, the 724 is also now showing as a through service on both the App and the website this afternoon, as well as the withdrawn 477 disappearing.
That's somewhat positive that the split reg routes are being fixed. I feel that it's very much an exception to the rule that one or two things have been fixed rather than them actually taking these things seriously. Time will tell I guess. I'd like to hope the tables have turned, but after years of me and other trying (including bus open data themselves raising the ongoing failures with Arriva), I remain skeptical.
 

Pyromaniac

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Colchester
As I work in IT, I can appreciate this from the technical side.

So let's be fair, it is a complete technical overhaul and full backend change, probably a host change too. There will be teething issues and maybe some redundant data (aka route information) but they will have taken data from a set date.

Indeed from my reviews over the past few days, the data is already being updated where needed and adjustments made to ordering and search results.

We have all been asking for the Arriva website to be improved for years...so now they finally have I'm perplexed why some people feel the need to dismiss it straight away.

This is an amazing step forward for Arriva, and if anyone on their teams reads this it is a job well done!
 

buslad1988

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As I work in IT, I can appreciate this from the technical side.

So let's be fair, it is a complete technical overhaul and full backend change, probably a host change too. There will be teething issues and maybe some redundant data (aka route information) but they will have taken data from a set date.

Indeed from my reviews over the past few days, the data is already being updated where needed and adjustments made to ordering and search results.

We have all been asking for the Arriva website to be improved for years...so now they finally have I'm perplexed why some people feel the need to dismiss it straight away.

This is an amazing step forward for Arriva, and if anyone on their teams reads this it is a job well done!
Totally agree.

Ref data like you said they probably handed it all over a few months ago, so of course in the interim time between then and launch there would have been changes. The main thing is they are evidently making an effort to review and adjust things as quickly as possible.

It was always going to be a big task… and there was always going to be a few on here immediately checking particular anomalies/details hoping they’d catch them out and have reason to criticise.
 

Deerfold

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It's great that they're making improvements, but it does feel that after many years of disappointment and a grand announcement we got the launch of what felt like a beta version.

With a bit of testing, they could have impressed a lot more people from the start and made it easier for customers to find what they need.
 

MotCO

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It's great that they're making improvements, but it does feel that after many years of disappointment and a grand announcement we got the launch of what felt like a beta version.

With a bit of testing, they could have impressed a lot more people from the start and made it easier for customers to find what they need.
Shouldn't they have delayed the launch until it was more or less all correct? Maybe they thought it was ok. Maybe the licence for the old website had expired and they needed to launch the new one to avoid having no website.
 

Tetchytyke

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Just been on the new Arriva website and, from a customer perspective, it is really good. Clean and clear. One click to find the timetables for the routes in the area I am interested in, two clicks for network maps.

I'm going to niggle about how they're displaying routes with split registrations though, e.g. this mess for the X93/X94 from Middlesbrough to Scarborough.

1776415442335.png
 

BuhSnarf

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Just been on the new Arriva website and, from a customer perspective, it is really good. Clean and clear. One click to find the timetables for the routes in the area I am interested in, two clicks for network maps.

I'm going to niggle about how they're displaying routes with split registrations though, e.g. this mess for the X93/X94 from Middlesbrough to Scarborough.

View attachment 202492

In fairness I think that's pretty standard to how other companies present it who are using the Passenger engine?

For example go look at any Go Ahead website, they display it this way also. I don't mind them displaying it this way as sometimes it can be quite handy if you're one of the middle spots as you can see both buses in one go.
 

Tetchytyke

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In fairness I think that's pretty standard to how other companies present it who are using the Passenger engine?
Yeah, it is, and it is rubbish on those websites too.

This sort of thing really really annoys me:
1776420024603.png

(The above photo shows an extract from a timetable which shows a bus arriving at 0913 and a bus arriving at 0948 in consecutive columns, before the next columns show a bus departing at 0919 and 0949).
 

BuhSnarf

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Other than splitting up the timetables per service I'm not sure how you fix that. But when you do that you lose the ability to look across the two similar services at once.
 

buslad1988

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The company moquette has been updated...looks quite smart in honesty although a bit similar to Northern Trains? Quite a few Midlands vehicles have been put into the 'new' livery too.
As referenced in Arriva Midlands thread - there is now a new Arriva corporate moquette (image in the above quote on that thread - sorry, thought it would have copied across too but appears to have not. Mods, I’m not sure how to do this).
 

Stan Drews

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Other than splitting up the timetables per service I'm not sure how you fix that. But when you do that you lose the ability to look across the two similar services at once.
You just need to keep the base timetable as one and use other elements of the timetabling software to differentiate between sections of split registrations. That’s what is done with split registrations within the McGill’s Group and they usually display fine via the Passenger app/web. See an example here.
 

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buslad1988

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Arriva Southend are acquiring 5 Wright Streetdecks for the new 1X service. These are being outshopped in Arriva turquoise livery with a yellow wedge, plus route branding. Quite unlike anything previous of Arriva livery and branding.

Of some irony. These 5 Streetdecks were originally part of an Arriva Yorkshire order, cancelled due to Covid, acquired by independent Ensignbus, sold by First owned Ensignbus, to Arriva Southend who are using them to replace a withdrawn First Essex route.

Arriva Southend are also acquiring 5 E200MMC's also from First Ensignbus.
Interesting development… from the East Anglia Buses thread. Thought it would be worth re-posting here too.
 

buslad1988

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Found this on Facebook:
Photos of repaints now starting to appear on Flickr also.



Branding still to be applied but striking and certainly a move away from the norm. I’m surprised the yellow chunk at the front is angular rather than curved. Can’t wait to see them fully branded.
 

Russel

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Photos of repaints now starting to appear on Flickr also.



Branding still to be applied but striking and certainly a move away from the norm. I’m surprised the yellow chunk at the front is angular rather than curved. Can’t wait to see them fully branded.

That's certainly a bold livery!
 

Statto

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Photos of repaints now starting to appear on Flickr also.



Branding still to be applied but striking and certainly a move away from the norm. I’m surprised the yellow chunk at the front is angular rather than curved. Can’t wait to see them fully branded.
Certainly a bold move from what's gone on previously, not sure whether i like it though.
 

buslad1988

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Certainly a bold move from what's gone on previously, not sure whether i like it though.
Hopefully when fully branded it won’t look so brash. Presumably it’s just a special livery for 1X - the old Thamesway ‘Canvey Clipper’ would have been a good name.

Certainly looks too plain at the moment and is reminiscent of the old Blackpool metro coastlines livery style.
 

Kaliwax

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I think it's the best thing they've painted since the Old Sapphire livery, the blue one.
 

duncombec

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A Southend councillor has posted the three attached images on his Facebook page, which have been further shared to enthusiast groups (nothing on the Arriva website yet, though, that I can see). This looks very much like a comeback to Arriva publicity for Ray Stenning, and looks rather smart.

Surprised nobody has identified the link to the former blue and yellow used for the X1 London service, as covered in Richard Delahoy's recent book.
 

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Andyh82

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That livery (a diagonal wedge with a smaller wedge next to it) looks like a multitude of the outgoing First local liveries
 

Leyland Bus

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That livery (a diagonal wedge with a smaller wedge next to it) looks like a multitude of the outgoing First local liveries
"Southend City" sounds like Arrivs going through its own FirstBus-esqe localisation phase...

The blue and yellow very similar to Southend Transports coaches of way back when...


Photo from Flickr by Nick Blurton
 

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