2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro London)

[Snow1964]

I can barely see out of the windows on most current tubes, and I'm only 5'7"! Given that they'll have a modern PIS telling passengers where they are, I don't think standee window visibility is a big issue. Especially as you're more likely to get standing customers in the busiest sections, which tend to be underground anyway.

The City and South London Railway tried small windows at the start. Assumed people wouldn't look out, soon discovered padded cells weren't a good idea and changed to bigger windows so could see the stations.

They didn't have modern PIS, but had gate staff at vehicle ends calling out. And if people don't like small windows and a real human, the idea they will like small windows and no visible staff instead seems like fantasy

 

[Benjwri]

The City and South London Railway tried small windows at the start. Assumed people wouldn't look out, soon discovered padded cells weren't a good idea and changed to bigger windows so could see the stations.

Comparing the 24TS to that is an exaggeration beyond belief. The 24TS window size is not that different to the 73TS they’re replacing. The effect is made to look larger because the 24TS does not have vents above the windows.

 

[Silent]

That’s great. But windows are about more than just thermal performance or aesthetics. If they’re too small, they prevent people from seeing out of them if they’re outside the range the designer considered because people’s eyes are above the top of the frame. That’s why I actively avoid Pendolinos, and will be a particular issue for standees on the Tube.

Sure but I was focusing on the aesthetics

 

[D365]

The room behind the seat, the small windows, the restricted sightlines……..wouldn’t 200 years of experience of designing trains be handy…..oh wait : 0

Does TfL (or the consultants that they have invariably bought in) have any significant experience of specifying train interiors? In particular, the minimum acceptable dimensions for a cab interior.

 

[35B]

Sure but I was focusing on the aesthetics

Form should follow function, not function follow form.

 

[Wolfie]

Form should follow function, not function follow form.

Within reason l agree. But when you get to Class 70 levels of sheer ugliness....

 

[35B]

Within reason l agree. But when you get to Class 70 levels of sheer ugliness....

Indeed. But, focusing on the 2024 stock, my challenge to @Silent is over the focus on narrow aesthetics over usability.

 

[Silent]

Indeed. But, focusing on the 2024 stock, my challenge to @Silent is over the focus on narrow aesthetics over usability.

I agree form follows function. But with led lighting, screens for information, I don’t see the windows as too much of an issue.

 

[Wolfie]

I agree form follows function. But with led lighting, screens for information, I don’t see the windows as too much of an issue.

Wholly agreed.

 

[35B]

I agree form follows function. But with led lighting, screens for information, I don’t see the windows as too much of an issue.

I shall reserve my judgment until I've travelled on them. Without getting to "padded cell" extremes, I am sceptical

 

[eastwestdivide]

Another possible Goole-Old Dalby move tomorrow, STP 15/5 only, 1143 from Goole:

Realtime Trains | 6X22 1143 Goole Glassworks Gbrf to Old Dalby | 15/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 6X22 1143 departure from Goole Glassworks Gbrf to Old Dalby on 15/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[vuzzeho]

Obviously, I haven't travelled on them, but I have seen them in the flesh. The windows aren't terribly tiny. They're small, but the entire train is. Additionally, we're on a rail enthusiast website. The concentration of people who are going to want to look out of the windows on here is much higher than the average person. TfL (who would've sent a brief to Siemens, design firms, and other relevant parties) have likely probably thought about this, and judged that the tradeoff is worth it. With mobile data expected to be on the entire network by the time these enter service (or shortly after), the number of people who will just be looking at their phones will be even higher.

Attached: some of my photos of the 24TS when I saw it.

 

[Silent]

Obviously, I haven't travelled on them, but I have seen them in the flesh. The windows aren't terribly tiny. They're small, but the entire train is. Additionally, we're on a rail enthusiast website. The concentration of people who are going to want to look out of the windows on here is much higher than the average person. TfL (who would've sent a brief to Siemens, design firms, and other relevant parties) have likely probably thought about this, and judged that the tradeoff is worth it. With mobile data expected to be on the entire network by the time these enter service (or shortly after), the number of people who will just be looking at their phones will be even higher.

Attached: some of my photos of the 24TS when I saw it.

Yeah it’s a small train so small windows suit it. I think big windows like 92 stock also can work when the windows become a dominant part of how the train looks, that’s why it worked with the 92 stock. But it was probably impractical as it meant lower seats.

 

[Wolfie]

Yeah it’s a small train so small windows suit it. I think big windows like 92 stock also can work when the windows become a dominant part of how the train looks, that’s why it worked with the 92 stock. But it was probably impractical as it meant lower seats.

Not to mention a mobile greenhouse! There is a reason that was never repeated!

To be clear, l mean the 92 stock windows.

 

[ATS3]

Obviously, I haven't travelled on them, but I have seen them in the flesh. The windows aren't terribly tiny. They're small, but the entire train is. Additionally, we're on a rail enthusiast website. The concentration of people who are going to want to look out of the windows on here is much higher than the average person. TfL (who would've sent a brief to Siemens, design firms, and other relevant parties) have likely probably thought about this, and judged that the tradeoff is worth it. With mobile data expected to be on the entire network by the time these enter service (or shortly after), the number of people who will just be looking at their phones will be even higher.

Attached: some of my photos of the 24TS when I saw it.

I've too seen them, they really aren't too bad.

 

[eastrail]

It seems like there is a new WTT for the Piccadilly line with paths available for 24 stock tests, is this a sign that things are taking a step forward?

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/wtt-64-piccadilly-may-2026.pdf

 

[Momodou2003]

It seems like there is a new WTT for the Piccadilly line with paths available for 24 stock tests, is this a sign that things are taking a step forward?

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/wtt-64-piccadilly-may-2026.pdf

makes sense because from the TFL board meeting papers TFL said that customers will see the trains more frequently as system integration testing happens as a preparation of getting the trains into service at the very earliest.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2026 ==

@eastrail so from Monday the new trains will effectively being test runs during the day?

 

[Mawkie]

so from Monday the new trains will effectively being test runs during the day?

The new WTT also allows for the closure of Arnos Grove sidings in preparation of the 24 Stock.

I can't speak to how many 24 Stock you'll see, or when.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Don’t expect 24TS doing traffic hours testing particularly soon. There are now WTT, RR (runs as required) paths built into the timetable, but it doesn’t mean that they will be used or indeed run to those specific timings on the day. There are lots of RR paths across the combine - for example the Met still has regular S7 test paths which I’ve only actually run once in nearly 10 years on the line.

The appearance of these paths is a step forward, but they have been ready to bring in for a while - likewise the closure of Arnos sidings was supposed to happen last year with late notice timetable changes to revert it.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Another Goole-Old Dalby delivery today?
This ran (very late) from Doncaster showing as 2x57s:

Realtime Trains | 6Z22 0653 Hexthorpe Yard (Gbrf) to Goole Glassworks Gbrf | 21/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 6Z22 0653 departure from Hexthorpe Yard (Gbrf) to Goole Glassworks Gbrf on 21/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

And this is scheduled and activated:

Realtime Trains | 6X22 0934 Goole Glassworks Gbrf to Old Dalby | 21/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 6X22 0934 departure from Goole Glassworks Gbrf to Old Dalby on 21/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Zeremony]

TfL Press release:
Planned part closures on the Piccadilly line as vital upgrade work and testing of the brand-new trains gathers pace

List of planned upgrades at the bottom of the page

 

[Mr. SW]

I Caught the Tube at Loughborough!

Photo: Today at Little Moor Lane 57305 leading, set 074, 57303 trailing at 13:49. (Still from video)

 

[announcements]

Is it true something is going on at Down Street station to do with the new Picc like trains? I've been reliably informed it "looks like a space ship down there" - new ventilation system? Or to do with the signalling?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Down Street has had ventilation equipment located within it for a very long time - it is now life expired and is being replaced and upgraded. It does support the new trains, but is not directly linked.

 

[xtmw]

Or to do with the signalling?

I assume you are talking about conversion to some sort of ATO system - resignalling hasn't been funded yet and as such not much planning has gone into it. Signal work has taken place, such as signal immunisation works and addition of co-acting signals but not much done.

 

[announcements]

That makes sense - so IMR left as is for now and this recent work is focussed on the ventilation.

Down Street has had ventilation equipment located within it for a very long time - it is now life expired and is being replaced and upgraded. It does support the new trains, but is not directly linked.

Well natural ventilation up to now, no equipment as such - besides a discarded fan blade to the base of the lift shaft! The old lift shaft provides ventilation via the old passenger tunnels using the piston effect.

 

[Joel_1902]

This is the latest state of play I have with the new stock.

**=built at Goole

Based in London for testing-
38004/48004 38030/48030 38031/48031 38062/48062

Goole-
38063/48063 38064/48064

Old Dalby-
38008/48008** 38074/48074** 38075/48075**

Gascoigne Wood-
38001/48001 38032/48032

 

[Momodou2003]

Facebook

www.facebook.com

 

[absolutelymilk]

Facebook

www.facebook.com

This is a Facebook reel of the full video & article here:
BBC News - Testing London's next-generation Piccadilly line trains - BBC News

 

[Momodou2003]